I was down in Melbourne a couple of months ago and had my first look at many places including St Kilda "beach" and the Docklands. I can't honestly understand the attraction to either. St Kilda "beach" wasn't a beach at all, though I can imagine it would be much nicer than it was in the middle of winter once you hit the middle of summer and it's full of people. The Docklands was very windy, had crappy views (even the water views weren't very nice) and backed onto what seemed to be a freeway. Not my cup of tea!
Why do people hate/dislike Docklands ??
- Thread starter xQuIz8
- Start date
Well I really like Docklands. Yes it gets windy, but so did the 'Paris End' of Collins Street when I used to work there.
I've never found parking to be a problem, maybe I've been lucky.
I like St Kilda too but for different reasons.
I've never found parking to be a problem, maybe I've been lucky.
I like St Kilda too but for different reasons.
In my opinion concentrate on CBD and St Kilda Rd side of Southmelbourne/Docklands.
Docklands has been very badly planned.
Look at rental demand, docklands gets the 'left over'.
Docklands has been very badly planned.
Look at rental demand, docklands gets the 'left over'.
Whatever the 'growth factor' of docklands, the growth factor of Southmelbourne/CBD will be a multiple of that.
Assuming includes car parks.
All my posts re inner city apartments always assume car parks (no idea about these studio/student/non-car park apartments)
Docklands - too artificial and contrived. Something doesn't feel right. South Bank is leagues ahead, especially the St Kilda Rd section across from the Tan.
And when locals stay away and ethnic groups like rich Chinese bulk-buy there, you know better than to buy there. In short, over-priced and "packaged" to be sold to overseas investors. Very similar to say packaged Florida houses being sold to Australians when the rich Americans are staying away from it? The "culture" is just wrong - I'd live in an apartment in Prahan or Richmond but not Docklands.
Also over the years many horror stories about it. Funniest one was my computer technician paid $10k to go to a seminar to learn about property investment, only to buy an office in Docklands in the early 2000s from memory. Vacant for a good 12 months.
And when locals stay away and ethnic groups like rich Chinese bulk-buy there, you know better than to buy there. In short, over-priced and "packaged" to be sold to overseas investors. Very similar to say packaged Florida houses being sold to Australians when the rich Americans are staying away from it? The "culture" is just wrong - I'd live in an apartment in Prahan or Richmond but not Docklands.
Also over the years many horror stories about it. Funniest one was my computer technician paid $10k to go to a seminar to learn about property investment, only to buy an office in Docklands in the early 2000s from memory. Vacant for a good 12 months.
Spot on. The Chinese and South East Asians flock there because it resembles up-market developments in their countries. Funny you picked that up 3 years ago.
Little do they know Aussies don't like that stuff. Random warehouses in Fitzroy and dirty run-down terrace houses in Kensington have far more value and much better growth potential. The Asians overseas bring their "investment lens" to another country and usually get ripped off by locals.
Always tread wearily in an overseas market. Culture is too different.
The number one mistake most Asians make in Australia is they forget that, in Australia, we have a lot of land or at least there's a perception that there's a lot of land. Therefore most Aussies prefer to buy land! In Asia, they're use to buying secluded, concrete-looking air (ie apartments) with club houses.
I don't know what's going to happen in the future. All I know is if you bought a house in Carlton in 2000 you would've tripled your money. If you bought in Docklands, you should be happy to break even now though I suspect you're down. Interesting to note that it's now 3 years from when this thread started, and I suspect the Docklands fan here is eating his words. I hope they taste nice
Totally agree about Southbank, it was presided over by a Evan Walker, a planning minister who was an architect.
Poorly planned. Lifeless. Soulless. Windy. Bleak. Poo-poo waterfront. Ugly buildings. Congested roads. Windy. Unincorporated. Windy. Overpriced dogboxes. Windy. Lack of greenery. Windy. Dull shops. Empty restaurants. Surprisingly cut-off from the CBD and the rest of Melbourne. Windy. No charm. No personality. A concrete wasteland.
But whatever paddles your canoe.
But whatever paddles your canoe.
docklands fails on many levels, and Im not even talking about from an investment perspective.
Its easy for arm chair critics to say it lacks soul but you have to go there a few times and really get a feel.
Firstly transport, docklands is 1km or so from the cbd and it can take you a good 30 mins to get to the CBD, you could live in other inner city suburbs with better value,
parking: nightmare, many metered parks are metered until midnight so if you have to go out for dinner, you have to pay $8 odd to go out, multiply that for 4 cars, and it adds up,
Restaurants: a lot of poor quality restaurants, one end of the restaurants are owned by the rivers group, which has mixed reviews, while the other end is owned by asians, whereas these restaurants are not good quality. The rivers group survives on sheer volume and economies of scale, the asian restaurants survive because its almost like a tourist area, their reviews are poor but the people who are eating there are always first timers.
Harbour Town: once again is a pain to get to, parking is a bit of a pain, its also not that close to the docklands area, only a few locals would go, hence many shops up for lease
Identity: the area is struggling to establish itself whether its a beachside suburb, a lifestyle suburb, a business district, thats why you've got 15 sqm patch of grass that in summer some people try and sunbake on but its quite self conscious.
Weather: its a wind tunnel, windy day and night. During the day its like a ghost town. Was having a look at lorimer st on the ground level a few months ago, on a monday and some of the buildings I couldnt tell if it was actually being built or not due to so few people
Amenities: Other then restaurants, and an IGA in the middle of docklands there is not much else, however you do have harbour town. There used to be a few nightclubs in docklands but most no longer exist
Apartments: i dont mind the lorimer st side, but find it a bit too quiet in opinion, the 3 towers on caravel lane, 5 is good, 39 is good, 15 is horrendous. For me living n docklands would mean having a water view, waterview 2bdrs start from about $800k for a 2bdr, around the 75sqm mark but price depends on what your definition of ocean view is.
Architecture: Many people say that the architecture is souless and to a high extent I agree, they are trying too hard to make it arty farty and when its empty, it looks crap. Fed square to me also has the same feel. Its sterile, lacks culture and is cold. But for me Fed square works better then dockalnds. maybe because its a closed space with people in it. Docklands, Because the land is a landfill area, apparently they cannot/wont go underground to build carparks and whatever (but dont quote me on that one)
Edit: I d personally live there for purely lifestyle and if I had as many zeros in my bank balance as Shane Warnes Sms outbox, as an investment, its probably on the very poor end of the scale
Its easy for arm chair critics to say it lacks soul but you have to go there a few times and really get a feel.
Firstly transport, docklands is 1km or so from the cbd and it can take you a good 30 mins to get to the CBD, you could live in other inner city suburbs with better value,
parking: nightmare, many metered parks are metered until midnight so if you have to go out for dinner, you have to pay $8 odd to go out, multiply that for 4 cars, and it adds up,
Restaurants: a lot of poor quality restaurants, one end of the restaurants are owned by the rivers group, which has mixed reviews, while the other end is owned by asians, whereas these restaurants are not good quality. The rivers group survives on sheer volume and economies of scale, the asian restaurants survive because its almost like a tourist area, their reviews are poor but the people who are eating there are always first timers.
Harbour Town: once again is a pain to get to, parking is a bit of a pain, its also not that close to the docklands area, only a few locals would go, hence many shops up for lease
Identity: the area is struggling to establish itself whether its a beachside suburb, a lifestyle suburb, a business district, thats why you've got 15 sqm patch of grass that in summer some people try and sunbake on but its quite self conscious.
Weather: its a wind tunnel, windy day and night. During the day its like a ghost town. Was having a look at lorimer st on the ground level a few months ago, on a monday and some of the buildings I couldnt tell if it was actually being built or not due to so few people
Amenities: Other then restaurants, and an IGA in the middle of docklands there is not much else, however you do have harbour town. There used to be a few nightclubs in docklands but most no longer exist
Apartments: i dont mind the lorimer st side, but find it a bit too quiet in opinion, the 3 towers on caravel lane, 5 is good, 39 is good, 15 is horrendous. For me living n docklands would mean having a water view, waterview 2bdrs start from about $800k for a 2bdr, around the 75sqm mark but price depends on what your definition of ocean view is.
Architecture: Many people say that the architecture is souless and to a high extent I agree, they are trying too hard to make it arty farty and when its empty, it looks crap. Fed square to me also has the same feel. Its sterile, lacks culture and is cold. But for me Fed square works better then dockalnds. maybe because its a closed space with people in it. Docklands, Because the land is a landfill area, apparently they cannot/wont go underground to build carparks and whatever (but dont quote me on that one)
Edit: I d personally live there for purely lifestyle and if I had as many zeros in my bank balance as Shane Warnes Sms outbox, as an investment, its probably on the very poor end of the scale
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It's still a work in progress. I'm giving it till 2020 to be more than it is now. Hopefully the library will go in soon and other improvements will take place over time.
I didn't like Fed Square when it was new and heaps of ppl were on the 'it's ugly' bandwagon too. It's fair to say, my opinion has changed and I see the positives.
I didn't like Fed Square when it was new and heaps of ppl were on the 'it's ugly' bandwagon too. It's fair to say, my opinion has changed and I see the positives.
I've been to Docklands many times over the years and while I don't live there, probably have sufficient exposure to the place and agree with most of what PropertyMeister says.
Eaten at nearly all the restaurants there - god they are bland, but I reckon Steakhouse is not too bad.
But the problem is still the same - it's a lifeless and artificial "suburb". Why would I give it to 2020 when I could buy in Carlton or Carlton North and most likely see substantially better capital growth by 2020, better lifestyle, better commercial areas, more accessibility to the city, period homes that have tested the times in western civilisations.
Docklands is trying to be Canary Wharf, which in my opinion is dismal so it just goes to show how much more dismal Docklands is. As someone who looked heavily in to London and lived there, I wouldn't touch Canary Wharf with a 10-foot pole. For the same money I could buy in much better locations, across from the LSE for example in vintage apartments. Same issue with Docklands - why would I live there when I could live across from the Tan or in trendy areas like Clarendon St? If I was after a more commercial area I could live on Drummond St.
Eaten at nearly all the restaurants there - god they are bland, but I reckon Steakhouse is not too bad.
But the problem is still the same - it's a lifeless and artificial "suburb". Why would I give it to 2020 when I could buy in Carlton or Carlton North and most likely see substantially better capital growth by 2020, better lifestyle, better commercial areas, more accessibility to the city, period homes that have tested the times in western civilisations.
Docklands is trying to be Canary Wharf, which in my opinion is dismal so it just goes to show how much more dismal Docklands is. As someone who looked heavily in to London and lived there, I wouldn't touch Canary Wharf with a 10-foot pole. For the same money I could buy in much better locations, across from the LSE for example in vintage apartments. Same issue with Docklands - why would I live there when I could live across from the Tan or in trendy areas like Clarendon St? If I was after a more commercial area I could live on Drummond St.
I love living in Docklands - moved here from suburban London three years ago. For me the number one thing is convenience - Southern Cross station, Skybus, trams, Safeway, GP, pharmacy, post office within five minutes walk, park and quayside across the road, Bourke Street Mall about 20 minutes walk. I don't need to run a car so rent out my space ($200pm) which more than covers the use I make of Flexicar. It is windy though - my idea of sitting out on my balcony with morning coffee and the Age is rarely realised.
Re Deltaberry's comment, Canary Wharf is a long way from central London - a visit to a theatre, museum etc would be a PT trip as if you were living out in the suburbs. For me, most of the key CBD locations are perfectly walkable.
Re Deltaberry's comment, Canary Wharf is a long way from central London - a visit to a theatre, museum etc would be a PT trip as if you were living out in the suburbs. For me, most of the key CBD locations are perfectly walkable.
ive only checked out a few apartments in winter, and it was too cold to notice the wind on balconies, is it windy all year around and all day and night???
I'm on a NE corner so probably get more wind than most, also warmer weather in the spring and autumn often equates with north winds. There have been days when it's all but impossible to stand upright on my balcony without holding the rail! But on stiller summer days it's lovely - being on the NE side it's shaded after about 1100.
More mismanagement:
There is a lot of potential for the area:
From http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/p...arves-face-big-events-ban-20110928-1kxfo.html
There is a lot of potential for the area:
From http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/p...arves-face-big-events-ban-20110928-1kxfo.html
the body corp alone will kill you in docklands. would stay away - suicidal investing.
i'm happy to just stay in an area i know south melbourne. There are always buyers and it always sells and long term upside due to botanical gardens, schools and proximity to south melbourne markets. No noise away from the st kilda road and has a quiet village feel to it.
i'm happy to just stay in an area i know south melbourne. There are always buyers and it always sells and long term upside due to botanical gardens, schools and proximity to south melbourne markets. No noise away from the st kilda road and has a quiet village feel to it.
