Why Tenants & Landlords Are The Way They Are? The Tenant vs. Landlord Debate

[Watermelon Man]

Over 11 years working in the R/E industry & having visited hundreds of rental properties; I found that 99% of the tenants kept the place in an untidy condition; both inside & out - didn't maintain or look after the interior of the home, gardens, pool, etc. Therefore I used to think that generally tenants did nothing to keep the home tidy inside & out, etc

Then on the flipside, I've experienced (both personally & also at work) that tenants were consistently complaining that the landlord won't do this or fix this, etc; & the length of time it takes for the landlord to rectify the issue; ie: months, etc. Therefore, I concluded that generally landlords did nothing to maintain the home in good working order & didn't give a stuff about tenants; like saying: "Oh, you're just a tenant!"

As I've just recently become a landlord with 2 IPs, I had a tenant move out last week (break lease after only 3 months); & went to inspect the unit along with my PM only to find out that the rear gardens were almost dead; due probably to no watering, etc & something else was damaged. This made me angry, but it made me think about the above 2 perspectives; & think it's no wonder there's this tenant vs. landlord issue - ie: generally tenants don't look after the home or do any maintenance on the home they're renting because they probably think the landlord won't do anything either...& so the somewhat 'vicious circle' keeps turning around. I've also heard other landlords say when renovating or building a new home that just to put in a basic, functional & quality fitout with minimal/low maintenance gardens because the tenants won't maintain or look after it. I know that's a cynical attitude, but after my first landlord experience I'm starting to embrace it, right or wrong.

 

[alexlee]

Don't really think it's a big deal, to be honest. Tenants are just a necessary part of the business: I buy IPs to make money. I have had some tenants who really take care of the place, some who don't (but that's why we have the rental bond and landlords insurance). I'm not going to be best friends with the ones who take care of the place, and I'm not going to be enemies with those who trash it. Get it repaired, kick the tenants out, and move on.

I certainly don't take it personally. I know as a tenant myself I try to take care of the place (and selected a place that doesn't have a garden). As a landlord I generally fix everything that the tenants ask for, within reason. I've put in gates and so on that I didn't need to, but did because the tenants were taking care of the place and looked like they would stay for a while.

I do my bit. That's really all I care about: I try to keep a good business relationship with my tenants. I certainly have no desire to 'improve the relationship between all tenants and landlords'.

I don't intend to own all the IPs in Australia, so I don't care about averages. There IS no general. There are just MY tenants, MY landlord and MY IPs. General simply doesn't apply.
Alex

 

[GoAnna!]

Maybe we just notice people's short falls becuase of the relationship (landlord and tenant) and these behaviours occur outside of the relationship as well.

For example many home owners may take a long time to make repairs inside their own homes but who is going to complain about this? Come to think of it I would have maybe 20 urgently required repairs around my house that I haven't atended to. Aren't there lots of jokes based around wives who can never get their husbands to do small repairs to the home?

A home owner is messy....who cares? Will they get on the news? Only if their frontyard is considered a health risk or is a total eyesore in the neighbourhood.

I think we focus on examples that fit the stereotype we have in our mind and gloss over those that don't.

 

[natmarie73]

I don't really care if my tenants are neat and tidy or not - they have to live in their mess, not me. I have pretty good PMs who keeps on top of them and ensure they don't have the place too messy and certainly they are always made to rectify any mess/damage when they leave so all's good. As a landlord I will always ensure that any maintenance issues are fixed ASAP no matter what the individual tenants are like. Of course if they have caused a breakage of something I generally will not fix it - let them live with the consequences of their actions and fix it themselves.

Perhaps someone out there with too much time on their hands will do a study on the correlation of messy/apathetic tenants and lazy/apathetic landlords. I would guess that if your landlord looks after the property well you would be less likely to do anything to get evicted and would thus keep the place neat and tidy etc.

 

[HiredGoon]

If you want to know why, look at this. This guy thinks houses are a get rich quick scheme, not to shelter humans:

Don't really think it's a big deal, to be honest. Tenants are just a necessary part of the business: I buy IPs to make money.

 

[BoatBoy]

Well I know I did'nt start getting into IP's because I felt a need to provide shelter.

The fact that it does is good, but I did it for my financial future, no other reason.

Dave

 

[Les]

G'day HG,

It's great to take comments out of context - you can prove ANYTHING this way.

For those who are more interested in the WHOLE story, check back a few posts (or click here)
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showpost.php?p=326359&postcount=2

Regards,

 

[phil]

If you want to know why, look at this. This guy thinks houses are a get rich quick scheme, not to shelter humans:

I take your point, but I'm sure most tenants don't care about the retirement plans of the lessor either. It's a business transaction, nothing more nothing less. Tenants (including me) pay for a roof over their heads so they can get on with other aspects of their lives. Property owners simply provide that service just like any other industry.

Phil

 

[HiredGoon]

I know, it's just profit-motives for people in a market.

But, imagine that most resturaunts were run by amateurs, lost money by selling food at a loss and were only profitable after some dodgy government tax incentives.

People wouldn't wonder why food tasted terrible, they'd know. It's because peopel don't try and make good food they're doing it as a rort. It's no suprise Australia's rental situation is so bad, even after an unprecedented amount of money has been spent in the area over the last few years. It's because it has all been wasted on money shuffling and speculation, seeing houses as tax-friendly widgets to buy and sell with easy credit, not a place to keep rain off humans heads.

 

[Les]

G'day HG,

NOW you're talkin' - seems to me you are in favour of increasing rents so that we don't need to depend on Govt. "handouts". Suits me - I'll just jack my rents by another 40% and we'll be done.

Reckon there might be one Landlord out of business if I tried that?

The current property market is what it is. I play it, based on how it is today. If it changes tomorrow, I'll play by tomorrow's rules. Meantime, I need to put food on the table.

Regards,

 

[alexlee]

How nice to be quoted.

I'll rent to goats if they can pay the rent. Saves mowing the lawn.

Actually I don't think it's a get rich quick thing at all. I plan to be rich over a period of 20+ years. Wouldn't consider it quick, and that's why so few people actually end up buying and getting rich in property. They don't have the patience.

HG, there are plenty of landlords like me. Don't like it? Buy your own home.
Alex

 

[BoatBoy]

I'm getting dizzy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Roundabout

 

[Les]

Let's get REAL !!!

G'day Hired Goon,

Let's look at current house prices. Do you think that it is "all the greedy landlords" that are pushing up the cost of housing?

It's not. I don't know of any investors who pay "over the money" to buy a property. Oh, no - it is the Owner Occupiers that push the prices up. All a property investor can do is "the best they can with what is given" - whether that be Tax relief, or 90% loans, or whatever is LEGAL !!

I am currently housing far more than just my wife and I (yes, for a price - we aren't a charity). But, if it weren't for us, there would a few more families out there "on the street" as they can't afford a place of their own. WHY not? Because other OO's are pushing up the prices..... and renting is still FAR CHEAPER than buying a property.

So what do you advise? I haven't heard much of that from you. A lot of belly-aching, but not much positive input,

Regards,

 

[phil]

I know, it's just profit-motives for people in a market. QUOTE]

But how is this any different from the State which promotes the use (and abuse) of cigarettes, gambling and alcohol etc to make a similar profit? Do you think any government is really concerned for the health / spiritual needs of its citizens other than raising revenue via taxation for continued growth for the nation?

 

[granev]

HiredGoon
You have suggested in previous posts that you invest in shares.
Why do you do this ?
Is it 1 - to support the companies you are investing in ?
2 - to look after the employees that work in the companies you are investing in
3 - to create wealth?

Given that most if not all that invest in shares would answer 3 , why do you have a shot at someone that is doing the same , but in property. At least he is providing a roof over someones head.

You have also pointed out in previous posts , that at this point in time , renters get a good deal compared to the current price of houses , so much so that you choose to rent and invest in shares.

If your strategy works for you , then good luck to you , but you also have to remember that most here are looking at long term gains , and also it is the the property investors best interest that their investment is in good order.

With mine any maintainence that needs to be done , is done straight away , as it will only get worse and cost more if i dont.

In the meantime I have good tennents that look after "their" homes and I am sure appreciate living there , like you appreciate living at your abode , which is so handy to work etc.

In the meantime , the only tax I am saving by negative gearing is my own , not the rest of the tax payers.

You do things your way , I will do things my way , at the end of the day everything is a gamble , but history tells me I am on the right tram , and if it all goes belly up , as you predict , Im sure you will be able to sublet me a room at your place

 

[geoffw]

But, imagine that most resturaunts were run by amateurs, lost money by selling food at a loss and were only profitable after some dodgy government tax incentives.

Actually, I think a majorirty of restaurants ARE run at a loss, and run by amateirs.

I'd be guessing that restaurants have the highest failure rate of any business.

I've been to many dinners where a comment has been made- "Your food is great. You should run a restaurant".

And I've seen people go into the restaurant business. Sometimes they have succeeded- but usually after a massive amount of work.

But more often they have failed.

I run a very high turnaround "quick service restaurant" business. The profit margins are very slim.

And I bought my business for a lot more than it's worth. As I found out two years later.

HG, property investment is a business, just like any other. Some make money, some lose.

A business can claim losses against income too. Probably more than any property owner could claim.

Si I don't understand why you are so against property investment.

 

[units4me]

HG, maybe you should be chucked out of your rental house and your house be rented to someone who appreciates it, instead of bitching and moaning about investors.
Don't like it? Buy your own house and see how hard it is.

 

[TheCamel]

I'm gonna put my two stories out there:

We are renting. My partner wants an aerial. We wrote a letter to the landlord, requesting it. Specifying that we were quite happy to discuss and come to an arrangement most suitable for both parties. We were quite prepared to pay for the installation of the aerial, and leave it there afterwards if need be.
LL agreed to the aerial, and is funding it. Guy coming round at 3pm this afternoon to install it.
We are appreciative of this, and I try to look after the property, the way I'd want my tenant to look after mine.

I have a tenant in my property. It's my first IP, and i've understandably (I think) been a bit nervous about it. I got the first rent cheque, and that helped. I got another.. and now my PM has just done the first inspection.
Phone call went something like this:
Hi, its XX from LJ hooker, how are you
good thanks
Just did the first inspection, and everything looks great, it's clean and tidy.
Excellent. Is he happy.
Yes, he's quite happy, but a bit unsure about the storage cage
Great. Does he want anything, or need anything ?
Nope, not at all
<more discussion about the storage cage>

My point is - I try to be a good land lord. I recognise that this guy is helping me on my way to financial goodness, and I respect that and will try to look after him.
If he had of asked for something, chances are, I would have said ok, and done it.
I would not buy, and would not expect a tenant to pay to live in, something I wouldn't be happy with myself.


Sure, there are **** tenants, and **** landlords. But not all of them are. And i'd reckon that a reasonable percentage of BOTH of those, use this forum.

(by this, i meant, the good ones are here.. not the **** ones..my bad)

 

[BoatBoy]

Sure, there are **** tenants, and **** landlords. But not all of them are. And i'd reckon that a reasonable percentage of BOTH of those, use this forum.

Those tenants and LL's deserve each other

Dave

 

[HiredGoon]

Current landlord is great, previous one was crap. I'm happy now, and am looking after my place (planting trees etc)

The one difference though between shares and property is, if I bid up shares so much that the yields are crappy, if I go over to the workers of that company and demand that they work harder to get my yields up, people laugh in my face!

But if you think rents should rise faster than wages while having more houses and bedrooms per person in Australia's history ever just because credit conditions caused prices to go up, then nobody looks at you funny at all.