Why Tenants & Landlords Are The Way They Are? The Tenant vs. Landlord Debate

[Harris]

If you don't visit the forum for a few weeks, when you come back, people are still talking about the same things. There are the 'same' newbies, asking the same newbie questions. There are the same regulars, answering the same questions. There are the same experienced members, telling us all about their experiences. There are the same arm-chair philosophers still giving us the same answers to world peace.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure what everyone gets out of it.

Newbies ask same questions and get support or answers from regular & experienced posters... that helps them make more informed decisions. After a while on the forum, they become more experienced and then ask more intelligent questions and in return help other newbies starting out.

You probably dont see the point of this repetitive exercise on the forum, however I see this as a great learning tool for all and sundry who contribute, ask questions and grow their investing talents.

Its like someone looking at an educational instituion from outside in. Same experienced teachers, same wannabe students full of ambition, same 8 semesters for a bachelors degree, nothing gets changed, deadlines, assignments, exams, etc etc - But it all makes subtle changes to all those that are part of the instiution and every bit helps make us a wee bit more smarter and informed.

Thats what this forum does - really well.

Harris

 

[WASP]

new questions, answers, products, views and situations will always arise, the best real estate or investing book will never answer back to your questions, whats simple for one is not for another and its always great to get alternate views

repetition is the mother of learning

 

[GoAnna!]

Totally agree harris

And each time a new newbie announces with excitement that they have just made the first step I feel excited for them. I may have heard it hundreds of times before but each time it happens it is awsome. Knowledge of money management and investment is life changing. It can remove stress from people's lives, allow them to pursue thinsg they never thought possible and at times save relationships. I love watching people grow and learn. For me its never "ho hum just more of the same"

Its great to have this forum to come to and know that you can share ideas, have your ideas challenged and get support when things are a little tough from people that understand and are walking similar paths.

Newbies ask same questions and get support or answers from regular & experienced posters... that helps them make more informed decisions. After a while on the forum, they become more experienced and then ask more intelligent questions and in return help other newbies starting out.

You probably dont see the point of this repetitive exercise on the forum, however I see this as a great learning tool for all and sundry who contribute, ask questions and grow their investing talents.

Its like someone looking at an educational instituion from outside in. Same experienced teachers, same wannabe students full of ambition, same 8 semesters for a bachelors degree, nothing gets changed, deadlines, assignments, exams, etc etc - But it all makes subtle changes to all those that are part of the instiution and every bit helps make us a wee bit more smarter and informed.

Thats what this forum does - really well.

Harris

 

[alexlee]

I don't understand why people go to the gym every day to do the same exercises over and over again either. Hmm. Maybe that's why I'm fat and unfit......
Alex

 

[bernly]

After 100 posts (with probably at least 10% of these deleted), nothing has changed, and nothing will change.
All the best.

Goodbye, Timmy.

I'll miss your posts and your points of view. Your statement above is ambiguous - I wonder if you mean that nothing has changed or will change for you, despite your 100 posts; or do you presume that nothing has changed or will change for the rest of us as a result of your posts.
I guess we'll never know.

Best wishes.

 

[Les]

G'day Timmy,
I've got to go with Harris:-

You probably dont see the point of this repetitive exercise on the forum, however I see this as a great learning tool for all and sundry who contribute, ask questions and grow their investing talents.

When people start out in "unfamiliar territory" they often don't even know enough to know HOW to ask a relevant question. I've been there - and I'm sure this is just part of the deal in all aspects of life. When you don't know what you don't know, HOW do you formulate a question? I'm just happy to assist anybody who is starting out in this arena. "Dumb questions" are a step up to "better questions" - and success follows on from that.

Meanwhile, people like you who already know all the answers just get bored. Hmm - sorry about that - but that's just the way it is. Fortunately, there are many here who are NOT bored by it all, and are happy to give to others who follow. If that's not you, then good luck in your search for a more relevant forum,

Regards,

 

[Stella]

After settling on our first Ip in early August (http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...04059879&c=65091905&s=qld&t=res&tm=1189937442) I've had a lot of what could be described as dumb questions.

By looking through this forum & other property investing forums I have had so many of these questions answered and also learned about things I hadn't even considered yet!

Without forums like this everyone learns from their own mistakes and I think it is great that places exist where we can learn from the experiences (good & bad) of others.

Back to the 'Why tenants & landlords are the way they are'....we looked at soooo many places that agents told us would be wonderful rentals but we thought many of them were places we couldn't live in - so we wouldn't buy & ask anyone else to live there either. As a result we purchased something we could live in & are quite happy admitting to being the landlord for that property.
We intend to practice 'do unto others' so lets see how we go...

Cheers
Stella

 

[wylie]

Stella, we also would not ask a tenant to live in a house that we would not be prepared to live in. I like to have pride in our IPs and want my tenants to like living there.

Wylie

 

[Bargain Hunter]

Stella, we also would not ask a tenant to live in a house that we would not be prepared to live in. I like to have pride in our IPs and want my tenants to like living there. Wylie

Wylie & Stella,

Understand your sentiment however I believe that if people only invested in areas and properties that they themselves would live in, then there would be limited properties available for rent for those on low incomes.

The overall market may be pushing for better quality inclusions however there will always be a market for budget accommodation. I'm not talking about slums, but clean and tidy, no frills, low cost housing.

I guess the question is... why would you not live there? If it doesn't meet your ethical standard then you don't purchase. If is is a personal choice, then you still don't purchase because at the end of the day it is your decision.

However, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with purchasing properties in which one would not personally want to reside.

Regards

Andrew

 

[wylie]

Hi Andrew.

I wasn't trying to imply that my way was the only way, but because I deal directly with tenants through self-managing I am more comfortable with a house I could live in.

I know there are plenty of people who only want to pay for cheap accommodation and plenty who would look down their nose at our places too. They are good clean houses but certainly no more than middle range in the suburb they are in.

Wylie

 

[bernly]

Wylie & Stella,

However, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with purchasing properties in which one would not personally want to reside.

Andrew

I'd agree with that but, as a landlord, my philosophy is to not expect someone else to live in a house that I would not be happy for my children to live in. That means presenting a property that is clean and tidy, well maintained with everything in working order and aesthetically pleasing as well, which has occasionally meant repainting walls etc. It works for me.

Cheers

 

[Twitch]

Timmy, I have to disagree with you.

I'm still learning a lot from this forum after 3+ years. What tends to happen is as I've bought, sold, renovated, set up a trust, bought MFs, used BAs, had maintenance issues, had tennant issues etc etc all these posts that I use to not bother reading all of a sudden became interesting

So it's as you actually do and try different things the forum stays fresh. If the forum seems stagnant then maybe it's because you're not taking action and moving forward.

 

[GoAnna!]

I am happy to provide what the market wants in a particular location. If they want near new family homes- happy to supply. If the want budget priced bedsits close to cbd - happy to supply. If they want furnished - happy to supply. I try to purchase what tenants need and is in short supply as this translates into high rents and low vacancy. I do provide neat at the bottom of the end of the market and luxuriuous at the other end but I am more concerned about whether it appeals to tenants than to me because at the end of the day they will be paying the rent and I have to pay the mortgage !

 

[Prakman]

Very well put Anna, understand the market and milk it!!

 

[Smilla]

I have often complained about greedy renters and stand by that. At the level of economic return achieved, tenants should be singing the praises of the poor hard working taxpayer (be they property owners or not) who are funding their personal lifestyle decisions.

I am considering joing the gravy train - next to nothing rent, no council rates, water rates, water bills, repair bills, building insurance, gardening, depreciation, headaches and whenever you feel like a new gadget just get on the phone and demand it. at worst you may have to pay $5 a week extra... cheapest payment terms ever! Of course lounge suites from Harvey Norman aren't funded by taxpayers... unless it's part of your rent deal right?!

If renting is such a easy, cheap, gravy train then why arent you renting. Oh and guess what, most tenants pay taxes too Very insulting of you to tar such a large proportion of people with same brush.

 

[alexlee]

If renting is such a easy, cheap, gravy train then why arent you renting. Oh and guess what, most tenants pay taxes too Very insulting of you to tar such a large proportion of people with same brush.

And, it's just as insulting for the media and renters to assume all landlords are rich bludgers because they own property.
Alex

 

[tssk]

While it's nice to pretend it's your house/flat every tenant needs to remember that it's not their house/flat and that they are renting something worth hundreds of thousands.

 

[Ausprop]

If renting is such a easy, cheap, gravy train then why arent you renting. Oh and guess what, most tenants pay taxes too Very insulting of you to tar such a large proportion of people with same brush.

yes true they pay income taxes, but then again if you are the recipient of what amounts to a subsidy then you are effectively paying very little or no tax anyway. if you are on benefits and living in rental accommodation then it is a double whammy against the taxpayer base.

I am stuck in a PPOR for a couple of personal reasons. it makes no sense financially. the case is clear cut - if faced with the decision to buy a PPOR at full market price or rent at a fraction of ownership costs, then other than for a few emotional reasons why on earth would you buy?

 

[Smilla]

yes true they pay income taxes, but then again if you are the recipient of what amounts to a subsidy then you are effectively paying very little or no tax anyway. if you are on benefits and living in rental accommodation then it is a double whammy against the taxpayer base.

The percentage of renters who are on benefits is much smaller than the percentage of renters who work full time

What subsidy are you speaking of? Someone on benefits, or are you implying that landlords 'subsidise' renters?

It is a two way street between landlords and renters. Renters are able to live somewhere for cheaper than if they bought and landlords, through an initial investment (and subsequent topping up of the mortgage), are able to build up assets with the assistance of rental payments.

You speak as if renters get all the benefits from their altruistic landlords. If landlords have it so tough, then why are there so many people with investment properties? I think we all know the answer to that.

you also forget the tax breaks landlords receive through owning investment properties. That is another 'whammy against the tax payer base'

I am stuck in a PPOR for a couple of personal reasons. it makes no sense financially. the case is clear cut - if faced with the decision to buy a PPOR at full market price or rent at a fraction of ownership costs, then other than for a few emotional reasons why on earth would you buy?

I agree, but how does that make someone greedy? You are making the most of what resources you have so you can look after yourself now and in the future when the pension may not be around. This also helps the taxpayer does it not?

For your information, i am a renter, and also a landlord.

 

[lizzie]

Stella, we also would not ask a tenant to live in a house that we would not be prepared to live in. I like to have pride in our IPs and want my tenants to like living there.

Wylie

i'm with anna - often i have had to frustratingly say hubby "we're not going to live there" when he gets all morale about the purchase of a house divided in two 1 bedroom flats or an older three bedroom joint with an old bathroom off the back porch - but none of my tenants complain, because that is what they can afford to rent and want to rent at that time in their lives.

i ain't going to be buying my tenants $1mil 5 bed/3bath houses with ocean views - i'm going to keep that for myself.