A PPOR kitchen renovation

[Tizzy]

I'm planning a kitchen reno in our home and the budget has a good chance of running away with me. My latest quote for kitchen cabinets and reconstituted stone bench tops comes to $24K. That doesn't include appliances or trades people or any preparatory building work and demolition. Anyone fitted a kitchen recently?

Not sure what the problem is really, but it seems much easier to me to buy cheap and cheerful for our IP ventures!! Particularly when we plan to sell them.

So, my question is what are the main things to think about when the reno is your own home. We've been here 14 years ( the kitchen is totally worn out) and will be completely gutted. It's a good suburb, a street back from the beach front so can have some money spent on it but how do I work out the right budget?

If you've done a kitchen at any time, please share your experience with me.

 

[James Allen]

I was able to get a large U shape kitchen in 2pac with Nover handles and glass wall cabinets with Ceasar stone top. All hinges and runners were Blum and had soft closes. All up assembled by not installed it was $7500. Some custom made cabinets to fit perfect. Trades then cost another $1500 and $2000 for appliances, tiled the splashback myself and spent $300 on mosiac tiles.

Ikea kitchens aren't too bad, you get hinges made by blum a 25 year warranty alot of choices of doors and you can get ceasar stone from there as well, down side is you have to put it together unless you want to pay thier people to do it and you have set cabinet sizes and shapes unless another positive is that you can generally pick up the same day or get delivered so no wait time.

 

[Tizzy]

Hi James, thanks for that, it sounds pretty good! Did it all fit in okay?

I have seen large(ish) kitchens (new) in 2 pack finish with granite bench tops at the auction. They cost around the $5-6000 mark and I guess you employ someone to put them in and they do the necessary cutting and joining of the stone and cupboards. They were just normal cupboards though, not drawers, with average hinges. If they had the soft close and full extend blum deep drawers I would have paid more attention.

Maybe I could just buy the hinges and hardware and get a cabinet maker to do the changes? I still need an Island also.
Trouble is, I saw the Blum site and want the corner drawers and roll out pantry shelves etc etc

I did look at IKEA. It was still going to cost a great deal. Mainly because its a big open plan kitchen.

 

[Xenia]

I'm with you I like good quality stuff for home too. My parents have a huge house with a routered solid blackwood kitchen with solid granite benchtops and splash backs. They had it put in 20 years ago and it still looks very clasical. The wow factor is definately still there as you walk in (their whole house is like that!). Good quality kitchens are like chesterfield lounges they just don't age!

 

[Tizzy]

Hi Xenia, I want it to look really up to date and so I'll go for white full gloss doors with a white or very pale bench top. I guess its taking a bit of a chance because it's not wood. Love the look of those glass front upper cupbards too.

Still has to last me at least 15 years I'm justifying the expense by telling myself it will show in the next valuation we do.

 

[James Allen]

The way I looked at it was a 5k kitchen looked pretty average and was poor quality ie, auction kitchens. I spent around 3k more than that and got what I would call and others have called a amazing kitchen and while I could have easily sent another 10k and had a even better one I think it would have added very little more value. I just don't see how the little things like full extendable runners and fancy pull down cupboards would add much value over and above what I put in. This may of course be different if it were a much higher value house and things like that were expected but I think your talking 1.5mil+ before you get to that level.

End of the day if it's your ppor and you think those things will make you happy then go for it, spend the money, why else do you work hard?

Also I installed myself but had the benchtops, plumbing, elec done by the pros. I didn't fancy lifting a 200kg piece of benchtop, let alone cutting it perfectly first time.

 

[Tizzy]

I wish the kitchen companies would break down their costs a bit to show me what the money goes into. I'm finding it hard to believe they want so much extra for the special extenders etc

James did you mean you bought a complete kitchen then had a couple of cupboard pieces made by the same company to finish the project?

I think I need to get two more quotes before I decide. I've organised another one with a smaller cabinet making firm. I'll ask for similar finish and see what happens.

 

[Stella]

We are doing our PPOR kitchen - its not a huge area, we are keeping to the current footprint to avoid having to match slate tiles,are deepening cupboards, gaining more bench space, putting up wall cupboards (dont have any atm) all in white gloss with laminate top. Not much wizz bang stuff in the cupboards & drawers either.
Had 2 quotes one around $10k & the other $12k (neither quote included trades or appliances).
$10k planner didnt listen to what we wanted in the kitchen - he designed his perfect kitchen - other one listened t what we wanted & made suggestions & we discussed ideas until we got a kitchen we were happy with - so guess which one we are going with?

I guess for us its boils down to using someone we are comfortable with, if their price is at least comparable?

Cheers
Stella

 

[Tizzy]

Hi Stella. I also prefer to work with someone I feel respects our wishes and I must actually have some kind of connection with them to proceed with a job that will take some time to complete.

I don't have overhead cupboards either and I want to maximise the storage space in the room. Maybe even with opaque glass fronts. The new laminated bench tops look so much better than the standard issue a decade ago, I'm suprised at the colour choices and the edging quality. Really puts my pale grey chipped formica to shame.

 

[Mamaof3]

here's a clue as to how much profit kitchen makers make....

we recently (last week) bought 6 kitchens...now all are 2pac cabinets, granite benchtops (these are imported from china so can't compare with australian made stuff but i do know a good few of the granite kitchen people here do import china goods) and the cheapest kitchen we got was around $2600......our most expensive granite/2pac kitchen was $4500......

now our builder allows $8K for a laminate kitchen in our building contract.....so in effect we'll get a reimbursement from our builder of between $3500-$5400 for the kitchen component

for my OWN home i probably wouldn't use them but for homes we build and sell definitely a good product.

There's a HUGE margin in kitchens so definitely worthwhile shopping around

 

[Tizzy]

Thats a big saving!! So did your purchases include the appliance costs?

I must admit, I was struggling to see where the cost was in the quote I got from a large kitchen organisation. When they don't break it down its hard to see where the money goes.

 

[chrispy]

I recently had a new kichen put in at home, straight after finishing the renovation on an IP.

I did the IKEA kitchen in the IP but had a custom made kitchen made by a cabinet maker for home. I also bought red granite for the benchtop and all Miele appliances, oven, microwave, dishwasher, cooktop. I intend it to last a long time, I really couldn't face it again.

The main cost for the custom made one was the labour content. The granite benches alone were $4300 and that was at trade price. I went to the factory and chose the piece of granite I wanted, the cabinet maker made the template, then the stonemasons come in and fit the granite.

I bought the best drawer closers and expensive handles and taps etc. The house is worth far more than any of the IPs, so I believe its worth spending the money.

Chris

 

[kelvinh]

Tizzy

We got a kitchen company to do out kitchen.. probably an above average size..
vynil wrap, gloss cupboards.. blum, cnr drawers, gas lift overhead cupboards, ceaserstone bench, undermount sink and tap set, appliance cubby, soft close drawers..cost from kitchen company.. approx 35k(not inc applicances)... installed..
Electrics over head lighting and under bench lighting.. 1.5k.. plumbing 1.5k.. glass splash back 5k...

Weve also had one of those china granite i think also vynil wrap kitchens put into an ip.. (cost approx <5k to buy) but the quailty is much much lower.. If its your PPOR.. and its in a good suburb.. i reckon it ok to spend the extra..

Regards

Kelvin

 

[RumpledElf]

Hah, my PPoR is worth much less than our IP (which is getting a Flatpax kitchen in soon). My PPoR kitchen has a bookshelf, a 60s version of the buffet-hutch cabinet thing (painted indian red), an old shop counter with the sink cut into it and some open Ikea shelving. It works just fine.

I spent under $1000 on my entire PPoR kitchen including paint, tiles, sink, appliances etc and any more would have been overcapitalising

 

[Tizzy]

Thanks for your comments Chris & Kelvin.

So the $35K was just the cabinets and bench tops and didn't include the splashback? I don't feel so guilty now. Did you get a few quotes for the same layout to compare prices between companies?

I think getting the lighting done as well is a great idea, it looks so effective. I like the little spotlights behind the glass for upper cupboards. I've arranged meetings with a couple of cabinet makers this week.

Are you pleased you put the lift up cupboards in? What about the corner drawers, are you happy with them?

 

[kelvinh]

We used Blum Aventos gas lifts.. great system.. but our over head storage is alittle shallow..a nd i belive they were quite pricey..
The blum corner drawers and handy.. very deep..
One issue is we used an intergrated handle.. which didnt end up suiting a cnr configuration...
so there was some fiddling around to make it work..
For the money I wasnt over happy with the whole process... it took a very long time.. many major a nd minor dramas.. i think the company just wasnt familiar with creating a modern/contemparay kitchen..

Also I believe our benchtops were about 10k.. at least thats what the kitchen company was telling us...

 

[Tizzy]

Over the past week or two I've heard a few places say that Caesar stone is just as expensive as the good imported grantite (not the Chinese granite). The Caesar stone looks amazing, but I might have to look at some of the acrylics.

Re the cupboard depth, I know what you mean there. I was shocked when our designer said "I'll make the top cupboards 400 deep" ( as though he was doing us a big favour!! I assumed they'd automatically make them as deep as they could, but no!

 

[kelvinh]

Yep.. the ceasarstone guy came round to do some fix/clean up.. and we were having a chat with him.. and i asked the cost diff.. and he said its much the same.. he uses quality granite at his home.. but he did say it would have been difficult to get the shape we required..

The depth issue.. although not as functional.. it does look correct.. as the overheads look balanced this way.. and doesnt appear to over shadow the bench tops..

We should have gotten a few quotes..

The staron or austaron product wasnt that much cheaper.. maybe 1.5-2k.. mind you that could have been just the pricing through the kicthen company..

Also our glass splash back.. had quit e afew cuts.. and also a one off colour.. so what could hve been 3k.. suddenly change dto 5k..

 

[PrimeCommercial]

I spent many years working for a reasonably large kitchen manufacturer in Sydney, designing and selling. Nouvelle Kitchens are know about a quarter of the size that they used to be under new owners.

$20k kitchen were average stuff when I worked there almost 15years ago and you got your average sized poly or timber kitchen, maybe with granite b/tops.
As many kitchen companies do, Nouvelle had a tad under 50% margin in their prices and if the sales person need to get the sales you could negotiate a 20-25% discount, that means they probably made very little commission on the sale and most companies have the sales people on commission only.

 

[Tizzy]

I'm still waiting for final word on the financing but I have established some of the trades and the costs.

The custom built kitchen has come in at $32K + $7K for dishwasher, fridge, cooktop, oven and an external extractor unit. The kitchen also has a large island with double sink made of a manufactured stone, which increased the cost significantly.

Floors throughout the house (except bedrooms) remove terracotta and replace with porcelaine (matt finish) 600x600, plus floor to ceiling large white tiles both bathrooms. $28K (supply and labour).
Building work ( removing pillars in family area/put in 3 RSJ's) $18K.

...Once I have access to the funding from Westpac, I will start scheduling the work. Once finished, I'll get another valuation and see what the improved value is, and see where we go from there.