Accountant Selection

[Dean1337]

Hi all,

I'm in Brisbane however I will be moving to Sydney in the near future. I'm looking for an accountant to help with establishing my property investment portfolio.

I looked online for property accountants and come across a few. When I went to one I mearly wanted to know what he was like and whether he came across as being a good choice for an accountant. As a result I was charged $200 consultancy fee because our discussion was two hours long.

Obviously continuing this pattern is going to be expensive. So how does one identify a good accountant without incurring the cost I did above? Or am I doing something that is not considered normal?

What should I expect from a property accountant? This particular person was providing not only advice on structuring my portfolio and loan structures but also services in property selection by providing analysis of your costs/profit from a property. Is this the kind of service one is to expect?

Since I am intending on moving to Sydney, should my accountant be in Sydney?

Many thanks in Advanced
Dean

 

[alexlee]

I looked online for property accountants and come across a few. When I went to one I mearly wanted to know what he was like and whether he came across as being a good choice for an accountant.

On what basis are you judging whether he's a good choice? How much knowledge do you have? What are your expectations? What do you want? Without knowledge or knowing what your expectations, how are you evaluating the guy? That he talks a good game (can you tell whether he actually knows that he's talking about?) or that he wears a nice suit?

As a result I was charged $200 consultancy fee because our discussion was two hours long.

Two hours is a VERY long time. Enough time to get your life story, expectations and give you a decent strategy. Why would you expect him to do it for free? He'd bill more than $100 an hour actually doing work for clients. If you didn't get much done in two hours, either he's totally incompetent or you don't know what you want and he spent that much time cutting through the confusion.

Obviously continuing this pattern is going to be expensive.

Anything you don't know, you have to pay for. Why should he teach you for free?

So how does one identify a good accountant without incurring the cost I did above? Or am I doing something that is not considered normal?

Knowing what you actually want would help. Everyone wants great advice for free. Isn't going to happen. However, if you actually know what you need and have some knowledge yourself, the accountant won't need as much time to figure out what you need and explain it to you. Less time spent --> cheaper. And before you start on the common idea of 'why should I pay this guy a hundred bucks an hour', you're paying for the advice that this guy learned over many hours you didn't pay for.

What should I expect from a property accountant? This particular person was providing not only advice on structuring my portfolio and loan structures but also services in property selection by providing analysis of your costs/profit from a property. Is this the kind of service one is to expect?

Expectation depends on price. The more you expect, the more you (should) pay, and the more you pay, the more you should expect. Do you need the accountant to analyse your cost / profit from the property? If you do, then prepare to pay for it. If you don't want to pay for it, don't expect it.

You might, for example, learn loan structuring from a mortgage broker, who gets paid by the bank, not you. Then you don't need to pay an accountant to teach it to you.

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hi all,

I'm in Brisbane however I will be moving to Sydney in the near future. I'm looking for an accountant to help with establishing my property investment portfolio.

I looked online for property accountants and come across a few. When I went to one I mearly wanted to know what he was like and whether he came across as being a good choice for an accountant. As a result I was charged $200 consultancy fee because our discussion was two hours long.

Obviously continuing this pattern is going to be expensive. So how does one identify a good accountant without incurring the cost I did above? Or am I doing something that is not considered normal?u

What should I expect from a property accountant? This particular person was providing not only advice on structuring my portfolio and loan structures but also services in property selection by providing analysis of your costs/profit from a property. Is this the kind of service one is to expect?

Since I am intending on moving to Sydney, should my accountant be in Sydney?

Many thanks in Advanced
Dean

Hiya

I'd give u a couple of good referrals.


But I don't know any good accts that work for less than150 plus an hour

Ta

Rolf

 

[shuggy]

Whichever accountant you choose to go with make sure they are university qualified and preferably have a degree in accounting. Some don't.

 

[alexlee]

Whichever accountant you choose to go with make sure they are university qualified and preferably have a degree in accounting. Some don't.

Membership of one of the professional associations isn't good enough? What does 'university qualified' even mean? And what does an accounting degree, something that a person might have done at age 18 -20, say about all the training they might have done (or not) since then?

 

[Rolf Latham]

Membership of one of the professional associations isn't good enough? What does 'university qualified' even mean? And what does an accounting degree, something that a person might have done at age 18 -20, say about all the training they might have done (or not) since then?

more to the point, CA or CPA membership doesnt seem to mean squat when it comes to property experience : (

ta

rolf

 

[luce.rocks]

I too, would be grateful for any recommendations for a specialist property accountant in Sydney or Central West NSW.

I bought myself the book, 'Property & Taxation', by Jimmy B Prince today so I can go in to any meeting armed with questions and at least some idea of what I'm talking about

 

[Dean1337]

On what basis are you judging whether he's a good choice? How much knowledge do you have? What are your expectations? What do you want?

Hi Alex thank you for responding,

My original purpose was to check out a number of accountants to pick one that I deemed the most competent. After talking to one for two hours and not actually gaining anything substantial (although I did get some pieces of info that was useful) and spending $200, I realised that there was something wrong in my thinking.

I just read in a magazine that a common mistake from investors is going it alone without consulting an accountant. So I went looking for one without gathering an understanding of why I need one and how I would use this accountant. Kind of idiotic now that I think about it. It is like looking to buy a tool without understanding what the tool is used for and why I need one.

If you didn't get much done in two hours, either he's totally incompetent or you don't know what you want and he spent that much time cutting through the confusion.

I think it was because I didn't make my intentions clear and didn't take control of the situation. As a result I guess he took on the role of hand holding me and started giving investing advice about property cycles and how you need to buy at the right time.

Anything you don't know, you have to pay for. Why should he teach you for free?

Precisely! He shouldn't. My thread wasn't about getting free advice Alex. It is more about getting effective advice. The $200 was not well spent but I figured that this was more my problem than his. Hence why I posted this thread to getting better understanding where I'm going wrong.

Thanks to your post Alex, I realise I need to work out why I need an accountant and how I intend to use my accountant. This will require gathering more knowledge on different strategies. No point in finding one until I know this. Thank you very much Alex, I appreciate the effort you have gone to.

 

[Dean1337]

Hiya

I'd give u a couple of good referrals.


But I don't know any good accts that work for less than150 plus an hour

Ta

Rolf

Hi Rolf, thank you for replying.

I'm sorry if my original post mislead you. I was trying to find a way of getting effective advice rather than cheap advice. As Alex was implying, you can not get effective advice if you not certain why you need it.

Do most people ask for a referral and then go with that accountant?

 

[alexlee]

I just read in a magazine that a common mistake from investors is going it alone without consulting an accountant. So I went looking for one without gathering an understanding of why I need one and how I would use this accountant. Kind of idiotic now that I think about it. It is like looking to buy a tool without understanding what the tool is used for and why I need one.

Yes, it's true that people make a lot of tax mistakes, but remember even if you see an accountant that's right for your situation / goals, they can't hold your hand every step of the way. Unless you plan on calling your accountant before doing every transaction, you need to understand some of it yourself. Especially if you plan on using offset accounts, redraws, refinance, etc.

I realise I need to work out why I need an accountant and how I intend to use my accountant. This will require gathering more knowledge on different strategies. No point in finding one until I know this. Thank you very much Alex, I appreciate the effort you have gone to.

You can get lots of information from other sources, often more cheaply. A good mortgage broker, for example, will educate you on loans. Read a few property books to get a basic idea on strategy and property cycles.

Not just why you need an accountant, and how you intend to use him, but you need to know how to assess their knowledge. That means understanding as much as you can yourself. If you're not planning to develop that knowledge yourself, then realise that you have to pay for it. e.g. some people can't renovate and have no intention of gaining reno skills, so they will have to pay for it.

 

[Dean1337]

more to the point, CA or CPA membership doesnt seem to mean squat when it comes to property experience : (

ta

rolf

If they into property investing themselves would this be consider as a good sign?

Could these be good questions to ask a potential accountant to help judge if he/she is a good choice?

Do you invest in property?

How many properties do you have?

How long have you been investing?

How long have you been an accountant specialising in property?

How many clients do you have that are property investors? (or is this too intrusive?)

 

[Dean1337]

Not just why you need an accountant, and how you intend to use him, but you need to know how to assess their knowledge. That means understanding as much as you can yourself.

Thanks Alex,

Do you have any recommendations on books or sources to read?

 

[Player]

There's some resources that may help you on this site:

http://www.bantacs.com.au/

Have a navigate and read/download some of the free booklets.

Why does your accounant need to be in Sydney?

I have three accountants. All of mine are in Melbourne and since moving to the Gold Coast have not had any need to change them.

Two of them aren't taking new clients, however this guy may be worth calling:

James Gatherum Goss

http://houseofwealth.com.au/

I use James and am delighted with his services and insights.

Hope this helps.

 

[o0o]

Don't want to hijack but any recommendations for a Melbourne accountant in would be good thanks.

I prefer a university educated accountant who is a member of a professional body (CA, CPA) if given the choice.

Have to agree with Mr Ploppy that a uni degree carrys a lot more weight.

The same reason i prefer my lawyers and doctors to be university trained with relevant degrees and qualifications.

Yeah sure i could hire one based on "experience" but this is hard to quantify and a degree shows some commitment to their field of endeavour.

 

[Dean1337]

There's some resources that may help you on this site:

http://www.bantacs.com.au/

Have a navigate and read/download some of the free booklets.

Thanks Player, I appreciate you sending the details. I've already looked through some of it. Once again thank you very much.

Why does your accounant need to be in Sydney?

I have three accountants. All of mine are in Melbourne and since moving to the Gold Coast have not had any need to change them.

No reason. I intend to move to Sydney in the next year or two and I was wondering if it would be better to get one there since that is where I am moving. So using an accountant interstate is not difficult?

I have three accountants. All of mine are in Melbourne and since moving to the Gold Coast have not had any need to change them.

Two of them aren't taking new clients, however this guy may be worth calling:

James Gatherum Goss

http://houseofwealth.com.au/

I use James and am delighted with his services and insights.

Hope this helps.

Awesome thank you player. I might give him a call.

 

[Dean1337]

Great outcome thanks to all who posted

Due to the good advice from those who posted on this thread, I have meet up with the previous mentioned accountant but armed with better knowledge and better grasp as to what I what from him. As a result I received some excellent advice and information from him and I am happy to continue to use his services.

Thanks to all who posted on this thread for your excellent advice and guidance.

A special thanks to Alexlee who pointed me to the error of my way. Thanks Alexlee.