Are property managers totally unaccountable for their mismanagement?
- Thread starter INVSTOR
- Start date
sorry, should have clarified, without the official bond then the tenant wouldnt be allowed to move in legally, well they could but if they caused damage then insurance/liability would probably be voided
and I assume that being ex comission housing tenants, they wouldnt have 4 weeks bond lying around....
and I assume that being ex comission housing tenants, they wouldnt have 4 weeks bond lying around....
My thread got hijacked so back on topic -
Update - I wrote a couple of emails to the PM with supporting photo's of my complaints/issues with the property. He agreed on two of the issues and re-imbursed me $200 and has told me he won't accept any more correspondence on the matter. He is disagreeing that any of the property was dirty and that parts of the property was damaged and is saying that i had someone inspect the property with his wife/other PM. It is a complete lie, I had someone pick up the keys for me at the end of inspection who was inside and outside the property for no more than a couple of minutes. He is saying that because they made a comment the place looked pretty good it means the place was clean and undamaged. I NEVER asked anyone to inspect the property on my behalf so I wrote back to PM's stating that. The person who picked up keys is a full time carer. While the inspection was being carried out on my house there was a Personal Carer at her house bathing the patient so I have plenty of witnesses they are lying. She also can't leave the patient for very long, and if she had of bought her to my house they would have had to catch Maxi Taxi's to and from with wheel chair access, and that definately did not happen and would be very time consuming (getting a taxi or two in Perth is near impossible let alone one/two with wheel chair access)! Of course I got no response from him as he won't talk to me about it. I guess the only thing now would be to go to court. I can't believe the nerve of them! I have not seen one final inspection photo or report from them, so I'm sure they haven't even bothered to do one! They've given me an incoming condition report that was written by previous PM and notes added by tennant. Our very dirty double garage doesn't even get a mention that it exists!!
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Ok, thanks, I'll get back to you soon.
Firstly, why did it take so long? 2 months is a long time. the only thing i can think is that it was not a right price set for the property.
But anyways, PM sounds like a bad one.
Hi thatbum, so how could you help me out?
I'm really still not too sure what to do. I have spent many hours going through paperwork, receipts, reports, photo's and correspondence with the PM. So far I've spent about 60 hours scrubbing and painting and I think I'm about half way through the clean up. There was so much urine up the walls of toilet that the light grey tile was looking orange. In the shower there was so much body oil on the tile the tile appeared dark grey and there was so much dirt in the floor grout our feet were getting extremely dirty (even after mopping 3 times) so I've had to scrub each room for about 3 hours each. I noticed from nearmap pics the driveway was covered in oil. I got PM to check and he had said it had been cleaned. (pic attached of the 'clean' driveway). Do you think it's worth persuing?? Although I have argued the carpet isn't clean and provided pics to him which clearing outlines where their rug lay he argues back that it is clean and refuses to show me a receipt. I have heaps more pics of the grot!
Attachments
The PM's period of notice ended last week so I've taken over managing and have been living in the other one. I'm not sure what the condition of the other property is in but the property is a lot smaller and basic so it shouldn't really matter. I think I'll stick to only renting out small, basic homes with no fancy frills in future. Bare brick internally, vinyl floors, stainless steel splashbacks, no more than one shower, etc may be the go!
An agent has a fiduciary care towards you - in that they should always act in your best interests.
Saying that, I've never heard of a PM being taken to the office of fair trading for mismanagement of a rental property; regardless of the damage they have done.
My advice - self manage.
End of the day, it's a whole lot of smoke and mirrors. A PM will charge you, on average, $120 - $150 an HOUR to manage your property, and this is generally just forwarding requests through to you, or the maintenance company.
^^^ I assume this based on the average PM managing 150 properties, which then = 1 hour per property per month.
Take back control - it's not difficult at all. You will save thousands a year (increasing your net position to be able to invest further), and no one will look after your property the way you will.
You will create a great relationship with your tenant, and communication will be awesome.
I managed my own real estate agency (600+ properties), and I own 11 investments myself.
Saying that, I've never heard of a PM being taken to the office of fair trading for mismanagement of a rental property; regardless of the damage they have done.
My advice - self manage.
End of the day, it's a whole lot of smoke and mirrors. A PM will charge you, on average, $120 - $150 an HOUR to manage your property, and this is generally just forwarding requests through to you, or the maintenance company.
^^^ I assume this based on the average PM managing 150 properties, which then = 1 hour per property per month.
Take back control - it's not difficult at all. You will save thousands a year (increasing your net position to be able to invest further), and no one will look after your property the way you will.
You will create a great relationship with your tenant, and communication will be awesome.
I managed my own real estate agency (600+ properties), and I own 11 investments myself.
Every slumlords dream!
Much is to be said about how 'passive' the income from RE is if you self manage. That said I know people who love it and people who hate it.
Then there is the whole self managing interstate, across town becomes impractical...
But Tyler raises a point, Pro-managed isn't the only option, and sometimes the 'professional' in the title means anything but!
Not at all.
If I had my properties managed with an agency (at 7%), I would be paying close to $2,000 per month in management fees' - for not all that much work.
Or, I could self manage with all the systems / automated letters / support for $200 a month. The $1,800 difference would go a long way to securing additional investments.
IMO paying close to 10% of your yearly rental income for someone to pass on messages and arrange maintenance is excessive, and hopefully my new business will help people take back control.
None.
Your frustration lies in the misnomer of their job title.
One assumes when they hire a property manager that the person they have hired actually manages the property. This is where it all falls down.
The "expectation" that phrase builds into the Owner's head vs what is actually written down in the agency agreement - as written by the collective REI solicitor with the sole purpose of minimising the agent's responsibilities.
The differences are staggering between the expectation and the legal agreement.
If they were officially called "fee skimmin' slopey shouldered whingey Tenant phone message passer onerers", then as an Owner, you wouldn't have built up such high expectations, and hence, when they failed to manage your property in it's totality, you wouldn't be so upset.
Hope that clears it all up for you.
None.
Your frustration lies in the misnomer of their job title.
One assumes when they hire a property manager that the person they have hired actually manages the property. This is where it all falls down.
The "expectation" that phrase builds into the Owner's head vs what is actually written down in the agency agreement - as written by the collective REI solicitor with the sole purpose of minimising the agent's responsibilities.
The differences are staggering between the expectation and the legal agreement.
If they were officially called "fee skimmin' slopey shouldered whingey Tenant phone message passer onerers", then as an Owner, you wouldn't have built up such high expectations, and hence, when they failed to manage your property in it's totality, you wouldn't be so upset.
Hope that clears it all up for you.
Dazz - very aptly put.
End of the day it's a collection of smoke and mirrors.
Property Management is one of the most profitable businesses I have ever seen.
An agency principal effectively pays a PM $60k, and that PM "manages" 150+ properties (which will generate approximately $30,000 per month in management fees and associated fees)
The work involved in actually managing that portfolio isn't all that much - and each individual property generally looks after itself, apart from maintenance (which is outsourced), or messages being passed from the PM to tenant / owner.
As an owner, if you actually look at the work involved, you will realise that you make all the decisions and instruct yourself - they just take a fee to pass a message on.
Erik,
You are both an Owner and a seller of anti-PM wares, and hence you are biased. Using full disclosure principles, you should remove yourself from the argument.
Everyone on here as an Owner (myself included) is also biased and should in all honesty also remove themselves from the argument.
Obviously, the PMs on the other side of the fence would naturally need to exclude themselves from any further input in the argument.
That leaves just the incoherent academic tosspots who can wax lyrical for hundreds of pages but own nothing and having no financial risk, and of course the others who own nothing at all. Best we let them at it.
You are both an Owner and a seller of anti-PM wares, and hence you are biased. Using full disclosure principles, you should remove yourself from the argument.
Everyone on here as an Owner (myself included) is also biased and should in all honesty also remove themselves from the argument.
Obviously, the PMs on the other side of the fence would naturally need to exclude themselves from any further input in the argument.
That leaves just the incoherent academic tosspots who can wax lyrical for hundreds of pages but own nothing and having no financial risk, and of course the others who own nothing at all. Best we let them at it.
The purpose of a forum is to engage open conversation - I don't think we should all remove ourselves from this discussion.
150 properties, $30k per month in management fee... thats $200 per month each. At 6.6% fee each property has to be rented at $700 per week?
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