Bali Nine

[Zorros Whiskey]

And it makes me laugh that the indonesians are trying to raise funds from loose change to return the one billiom in aid we gave them!

Id like to see them raise anywhere near that much

unappreciaitive little brats

Id laugh if another disaster happened and see their reaction if they need aid

I wouldn't laugh if another disaster happened. That would mean innocent lives would be lost and ordinary people would have lost their homes. Ordinary citizens who are not involved in crime and just focus on raising their children in a developing country.

Remember these two are convicted drug traffickers which have been involved in several international smuggling operations. No doubt several people overdosed and died from their drugs. Imagine the burglaries, armed robberies and other violent crime which would have been committed to pay for their previous drugs they trafficked into Australia.

Let this be a lesson to any other Australian who wants to go to Asia to bring back drugs. It's a dangerous game to play, if you get away with it, you will be rich. If you get caught, it's your life.

When we Australians travel overseas the local laws apply to us. I think many people forget this and when they get caught.

The sooner these two are gone the better. Good on the Indonesian Government to staying firm. Heaven forbid another disaster occurs. I will open my wallet and make a little contribution to the cause.

 

[chilliblue]

Remember these two are convicted drug traffickers which have been involved in several international smuggling operations. No doubt several people overdosed and died from their drugs. Imagine the burglaries, armed robberies and other violent crime which would have been committed to pay for their previous drugs they trafficked into Australia.

Let this be a lesson to any other Australian who wants to go to Asia to bring back drugs. It's a dangerous game to play, if you get away with it, you will be rich. If you get caught, it's your life.

When we Australians travel overseas the local laws apply to us. I think many people forget this and when they get caught.

The sooner these two are gone the better. Good on the Indonesian Government to staying firm. Heaven forbid another disaster occurs. I will open my wallet and make a little contribution to the cause.

And the current government is sending mixed messages when Julie Bishop stated:

Speaking about consular affairs for the first time since taking over the portfolio, Julie Bishop urged Australians travelling overseas they need to take responsibility for their own actions.

"There are circumstances where Australians must take responsibility for their own conduct overseas,'' she said.

"If you break the laws of other countries or are accused of doing so, you are subjected to their legal system."

 

[TMNT]

I wouldn't laugh if another disaster happened. That would mean innocent lives would be lost and ordinary people would have lost their homes. Ordinary citizens who are not involved in crime and just focus on raising their children in a developing country.

obviously im not laughing at the disaster itself, but I would be laughing at the fact that if they expect or ask for aid in a situation like this,

you cant just accept signfiicant aid, and then just because you dont like what a PM says, to try and insult us by trying to pay it back

regardless of whether it was from the kindness of australias heart or a calculated investment, we did them a huge favour, period

EDIt; and for the record, I am both in the ' execution for a non capital crime is way too harsh' and 'if you visit another country you abide by their rules' camp

Ideally Id like them to get commuted to life in prison especially in line of their assumed reformation

 

[MTR]

Some may say the death penalty is not a deterrent

betcha can't name 1, just 1 in the history of the entire world, executed offender that ever re-offended

Problem: Solved

Problem not solved, and clearly death penalty is not a deterrent, they recently executed foreign nationals from Holland, Brazil, Nigeria, Malawi and Vietnam for drug offences.

 

[topcropper]

Some may say the death penalty is not a deterrent

betcha can't name 1, just 1 in the history of the entire world, executed offender that ever re-offended

Problem: Solved

Can't argue with that Bob.


See ya's.

 

[keithj]

Problem not solved, and clearly death penalty is not a deterrent, they recently executed foreign nationals from Holland, Brazil, Nigeria, Malawi and Vietnam for drug offences.

Does anyone have links to research on the 'death penalty is not a deterrent' question ?

And would the threat of rehabilitation be considered much of a deterrent ?

 

[boeman]

Death penalty of smoking was a big enough deterrent for me to never take it up...

 

[Simon]

Looks like the two will be transferred in the next coupke of days via fighter jets

Im assuming its becauzd of the media hype and they dont want people hijacking the transfer

I read somewhere that they were ready IF the australian government decide to physically hijack the flight!!!

I assume the other 9 people will get a standard transfer and not one involving jet fighters

if i was about to be ezecuted i might as well enjoy a flight in a jet fighter!!

I've not read that report.

I'm guessing their flight might be escorted by Fighters.

As far as packing felons into the back seat of the fighter I'd say that whomever reported that has no imagination.

I know I'd be reaching for the ejector as soon as I got the chance ...

Quick update. I think it is a Helo flight escorted by jets.

If you read that and conclude that it is a flight in a fighter jet then no wonder people are so wildly misinformed.

 

[nomadic]

Does anyone have links to research on the 'death penalty is not a deterrent' question ?

And would the threat of rehabilitation be considered much of a deterrent ?

Lots of research says the death penalty is not a deterrent. Just have a look at all the people committing crimes in countries where they have the death penalty. I guess they wouldn't be committing those crimes if it was a deterrent?

Here's the first hit on google:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88-criminologists-do-not-believe-death-penalty-effective-deterrent

88% of criminologists do not believe the death penalty is an effective deterrent.

 

[Strannik]

obviously im not laughing at the disaster itself, but I would be laughing at the fact that if they expect or ask for aid in a situation like this,

you cant just accept signfiicant aid, and then just because you dont like what a PM says, to try and insult us by trying to pay it back

regardless of whether it was from the kindness of australias heart or a calculated investment, we did them a huge favour, period

but you can, when what PM says is that you should now do what you are told because we have previously sent you aid.

it'd be exactly the same as if Tony started telling Queensland what to do with their criminals, saying 'we gave you flood assistance, so you should listen to us'. i'm sure most of queenslanders would tell him to F off and mind his own business

 

[Strannik]

betcha can't name 1, just 1 in the history of the entire world, executed offender that ever re-offended

that would be JC. got resurrected, and continued to preach to his followers for the next 40 days

 

[keithj]

Lots of research says the death penalty is not a deterrent.

The article you linked to is about people beliefs, rather than facts. (There's a significant %age of people that believe the earth is flat).

Just have a look at all the people committing crimes in countries where they have the death penalty. I guess they wouldn't be committing those crimes if it was a deterrent?

That's really what I'm getting at.....

There is a handful of people committing those crimes, and many millions (billions even) who are not. So what evidence is there that it is, or is not, a deterrent ? In other words, what proportion of those billions have concluded that the risk of death outweighs the 100% chance of making big $$$ ?

Here's the first hit on google:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/study-88-criminologists-do-not-believe-death-penalty-effective-deterrent

88% of criminologists do not believe the death penalty is an effective deterrent.

I was hoping for a link to a research paper or some statistics, rather than a link to an anti death penalty site.

 

[MTR]

Seems there has been many studies over many years

This research is in the main capital punishment, however for murder. Nonetheless capital punishment. Lots of info to read, not sure I can be bothered, some may?? If you go to conclusion, overview of findings.

http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/agdbasev7wr/bocsar/documents/pdf/cjb84.pdf

 

[TMNT]

but you can, when what PM says is that you should now do what you are told because we have previously sent you aid.

it'd be exactly the same as if Tony started telling Queensland what to do with their criminals, saying 'we gave you flood assistance, so you should listen to us'. i'm sure most of queenslanders would tell him to F off and mind his own business

oh definitelay it was low punch by abott if he meant it the way it sounded,

but I think the indonesians to throw the money back at you is just as insulting,
personally I think they should have shut their mouth and appreciated the aid which was obviously in great need at the time

 

[Strannik]

oh definitelay it was low punch by abott if he meant it the way it sounded,

but I think the indonesians to throw the money back at you is just as insulting,
personally I think they should have shut their mouth and appreciated the aid which was obviously in great need at the time

it was meant to be.

it was their way of saying that if we put conditions on our aid, other than where that money is spent, then it's not called aid anymore and we can shove it where the sun don't shine.

any normal person would've done it.

 

[jackbak]

Remember these two are convicted drug traffickers which have been involved in several international smuggling operations. No doubt several people overdosed and died from their drugs. Imagine the burglaries, armed robberies and other violent crime which would have been committed to pay for their previous drugs they trafficked into Australia.

Let this be a lesson to any other Australian who wants to go to Asia to bring back drugs. It's a dangerous game to play, if you get away with it, you will be rich. If you get caught, it's your life.

No one is denying that the committed a very serious crime and that they should be punished for it. It's the being murdered for their mistake part that civilised people have a problem with.

 

[jackbak]

oh definitelay it was low punch by abott if he meant it the way it sounded,

but I think the indonesians to throw the money back at you is just as insulting,
personally I think they should have shut their mouth and appreciated the aid which was obviously in great need at the time

Aid is not aid when it comes with conditions. Especially when you try and impose those conditions years later. They are right to kick up a fuss over this, very very poor judgment form the PM. Any politician should know that's not how you play the diplomacy game.

 

[MTR]

No one is denying that the committed a very serious crime and that they should be punished for it. It's the being murdered for their mistake part that civilised people have a problem with.

That is correct.
Nothing can make the impending executions anything but barbaric

 

[Zorros Whiskey]

Smuggling heroin is also barbaric and places a massive drain on many parts of society.

I hope these these executions take place as soon as possible so Australia can stop embarrassing itself with its 'diplomatic approach.'

 

[keithj]

Seems there has been many studies over many years

This research is in the main capital punishment, however for murder. Nonetheless capital punishment. Lots of info to read, not sure I can be bothered, some may?? If you go to conclusion, overview of findings.

http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/agdbasev7wr/bocsar/documents/pdf/cjb84.pdf

Thanks for that MTR. Skimming through it, the salient points appeared to be...

• The paper investigated 75 studies from the past 60 years mostly from USA.
• Approx 1/3rd of the studies found an inverse correlation between executions & murder rates. ie more executions deters subsequent murders.
• One (extreme?) study concluded that each execution deters 156 murders. Other studies found a reduction of only half a dozen.
• Others concluded that a well publicised execution would reduce the murder rate for subsequent 6 weeks by 35% on average, but then the rate increased back to usual.
• The other 2/3rds found there was no or v. little correlation between execution rates & subsequent murder rates.
• There were none that showed a strong positive correlation between executions & subsequent offences. ie that more executions led to more murders.
• The author of the study concluded The efficacy of capital punishment as a deterrent against crime, as this review of the literature shows, is still a vexed issue among researchers ...
  ...'Capital punishment, as Ehrlich (1975a) rightly points out, is ?a question of life and death?. Such questions require conclusive evidence which, as this review of the literature shows, three decades of deterrence research has failed to deliver. '
• Some studies found that life imprisonment has the same deterrent effect as CP

One possible conclusion from these 75 studies is that CP will never make the murder rate any worse, and will possibly reduce it.