Bali Nine

[MTR]

Keith
Omg, speed reader, thanks for the summary

So basically there is no concrete evidence that capital punishment is a deterrent against crime.

Indonesia maintains death sentence for 16 crimes including robbery involving serious injury, corruption ..... Good to know

 

[Strannik]

capital punishment reduces the rates of re-offending.
also people seem to miss the word 'punishment'.

 

[MTR]

Strannik
From what I have read I am not convinced at all, lots of conflicting information.

This is an interesting article
"The slow death of the death penalty"

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...ling-out-love-needle-slow-death-death-penalty

 

[Strannik]

Strannik
From what I have read I am not convinced at all, lots of conflicting information.

This is an interesting article
"The slow death of the death penalty"

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...ling-out-love-needle-slow-death-death-penalty

i'm not quite sure what are you not convinced about? the re-offending? it's hard to re-offend when you are dead.

interesting article, it indirectly suggests that the capital punishment works:

Several factors have driven death sentences and executions down. The simplest may be that America?s homicide rate has declined sharply?from 10.2 per 100,000 people in 1980 to 4.7 in 2012. With that broader decline has come a fall in the most heinous murders; ie, the sort that earn the harshest sentences. As Bob McCulloch, prosecuting attorney for St Louis County, explains: ?In Missouri, most [murders] are second-degree?bar-room brawls, or some guys shooting each other over a bad dope deal.? First-degree murders, he says, ?rape and murder, killing a police officer?those are all way down.?

 

[MTR]

i'm not quite sure what are you not convinced about? the re-offending? it's hard to re-offend when you are dead.

I think your right hard to reoffend when you are dead, lock them up and throw away the key and you will have the same impact I am sure.

Here are some facts from this article -

Fans of the death penalty say it deters murderers. The evidence for this is at best equivocal. The number of murders fluctuates each year and has fallen sharply over time, from 24,500 in 1993 to 14,800 in 2012. Many factors affect the murder rate: demography, policing, culture, the job market and so on. No one really knows how much weight to give to each. But it seems improbable that the death penalty has much effect.

 

[Phar Lap]

I think your right hard to reoffend when you are dead, lock them up and throw away the key and you will have the same impact I am sure.

Is that not cruel too? A lifetime in jail rotting away?

Might as well let 'em go seeing as though then have been rehabilitated. That way they wont reoffend for sure.

Im sure Rolf Hrris will be ready for release soon as "rehabilitated". let him go too?

Yeah lets do that.

 

[Bhp19]

Which option costs a government less, life in prison or capital punishment?

 

[MTR]

Is that not cruel too? A lifetime in jail rotting away?

Might as well let 'em go seeing as though then have been rehabilitated. That way they wont reoffend for sure.

Im sure Rolf Hrris will be ready for release soon as "rehabilitated". let him go too?

Yeah lets do that.

I don't want anyone to rot in jail, other than my MIL That's a joke

I agree totally with rehabilitation wherever possible.

RH, a paedophile who only got 5 years due to his celeb status and money that got him the best lawyers in town. Anyway that's another thread. That reminds me, I believe more women have now come forward, how many is that now

 

[Strannik]

Which option costs a government less, life in prison or capital punishment?

depends how you look at it.

in US they claim capital punishment costs more because they have more appeals, have to keep them for years in special cells, etc.

but then if you execute people quicker, the costs go down.

the main argument against capital punishment is that innocent person can be executed.

there are two counter arguments there:

1) It's not 70-ies anymore, so hopefully with modern science there is less chance of innocent person being found guilty.

2) spending whole life in jail to be told 'sorry we were wrong' after 30 years is probably more cruel than executing that person.

 

[Strannik]

I think your right hard to reoffend when you are dead, lock them up and throw away the key and you will have the same impact I am sure.

killing is more humane

 

[Harro]

I don't want anyone to rot in jail, other than my MIL That's a joke

I agree totally with rehabilitation wherever possible.

RH, a paedophile who only got 5 years due to his celeb status and money that got him the best lawyers in town. Anyway that's another thread. That reminds me, I believe more women have now come forward, how many is that now

Dogooders make me sick. These two pieces of ***** would happily of sold drugs to your kids or anyone kids simply to make money. Rehabilitation may and I stress may be possible for the addict, but not these lowlifes.
Now they are sorry and have turned their lives around ..... Come on. Thankfully we all didn't come down in the last shower. They are garbage, a bullet is to good for them.

 

[datto]

Thou shalt not kill.

 

[Hoffy]

the main argument against capital punishment is that innocent person can be executed.

I don't think that is true.

People who oppose the death penalty do so even knowing the convicted are guilty, just like in this case. It's mostly a philosophical point of view that we aren't animals and that the base instinct of vengeance is something that most people and the vast majority of civilised countries left behind many years ago.

 

[MTR]

Dogooders make me sick. These two pieces of ***** would happily of sold drugs to your kids or anyone kids simply to make money. Rehabilitation may and I stress may be possible for the addict, but not these lowlifes.
Now they are sorry and have turned their lives around ..... Come on. Thankfully we all didn't come down in the last shower. They are garbage, a bullet is to good for them.

Dont be sick, understand that we all have an opinion like belly buttons, we may not agree, we don't have to, so what.

Why don't we have capital punishment in Australia..?

Does anyone believe that Indonesia's tough position on drugs is connected to Islam?

 

[MTR]

I don't think that is true.

People who oppose the death penalty do so even knowing the convicted are guilty, just like in this case. It's mostly a philosophical point of view that we aren't animals and that the base instinct of vengeance is something that most people and the vast majority of civilised countries left behind many years ago.

Do some research on this, I think you may change your mind

 

[datto]

And what about all the atrocities the Indonesian Army have commuted. Why hasn't there been justice there? Why didn't Mr Bam Bam go bang bang there?

 

[Harro]

Dont be sick, understand that we all have an opinion like belly buttons, we may not agree, we don't have to, so what.

Why don't we have capital punishment in Australia..?

Does anyone believe that Indonesia's tough position on drugs is connected to Islam?

Do you think for one minute that if the "Mules" would have got through with their supply that this syndicate wouldn't be repeating the exercise? They were out to make money at others demise. Plain and simple.
I just don't understand your position of rehabilitation. Some people like these two,prey on the weak, vulnerable to enhance their own lives through profiteering.
So do you think the perpetrators of the horrendous crime committed against Anita Cobby could be rehabilated? There are plenty of instances where the death penalty should have been used. What possible good is there in keeping these type of individuals breathing?

 

[Hoffy]

Do some research on this, I think you may change your mind

Which bit do you disagree with?

I've done quite a bit of research on the topic and am comfortable with what I wrote.

 

[Hoffy]

Do you think for one minute that if the "Mules" would have got through with their supply that this syndicate wouldn't be repeating the exercise? They were out to make money at others demise. Plain and simple.
I just don't understand your position of rehabilitation. Some people like these two,prey on the weak, vulnerable to enhance their own lives through profiteering.

Of course they would have carried on. They are criminals and as you clearly point out, the death penalty is no deterrent.

 

[AlmostBob]

88% of criminologists do not believe the death penalty is an effective deterrent.

what would criminologists do without crime? be out of a job if crime were stopped: vested interest: philip morris on cancer
believe ?wtf
anything ending in ology is purported to be a science, and requires evidence, belief is a thing of religion, santa, easter bunny, and other bullshi_, not relevant

Still can't understand where they get THEology from, the science, without evidence, of magic invisible friends?

Problem not solved, and clearly death penalty is not a deterrent, they recently executed foreign nationals from Holland, Brazil, Nigeria, Malawi and Vietnam for drug offences.

did dead foreign nationals from Holland, Brazil, Nigeria, Malawi and Vietnam commit a subsequent offence ?

Of course they would have carried on. They are criminals and as you clearly point out, the death penalty is no deterrent.

No one has provided any evidence of recidivism among the executed
The death penalty when applied is a perfect deterrent
definitely deterred them
nobody commits more than one offence . . .

Problem: Solved