Banning of electric hot water and regular light bulbs

[poppy]

In my SA water bill I recieved a leaflet explaining how electric hot water would now be banned.

I also did some googling and found that regular light bulbs will be banned soon???

I have tried the energy efficient globes in the past and have found they blew just as quick as normal globes, meaning that the overall cost was very high. I am considering building a stockpile of normal light bulbs for when the ban comes into effect. My own PPOR is in the ACT, by the way, and is a very old ex-gov property and the light fittings are cheap ball fittings which I think reduce the life of the bulb. I'm not keen to replace all my light fittings at great cost.

I also do not have gas connected to my home (it is available in the street) and my electric system is very old and can't have much more in it. Should I replace it now (even though I've just had it repaired and may get another couple of years)? If I wait too long, I will have to install gas at a HUGE cost (ie rip up driveway etc), or else install solar hot water at a huge cost too.

 

[boomtown]

Incadescent bulbs are to be banned nationally.

Fluorescent bulb flicker rates annoy me. I should stock up.

 

[RumpledElf]

Gas is a pain in the butt. The cylinders get stolen. I'd hope there's an exemption for areas where there is no piped gas, I'd prefer electrical boosted solar myself. Seems like overkill to fit gas to a house *just* for hot water.

 

[poppy]

Seems like overkill to fit gas to a house *just* for hot water.

I've got a place in SA with gas purely for the hot water system. It was a requirement for building a new house. The stove is electric.

I remember it was a huge hassle getting the gas meter fitted and I had to go without hot water for a couple of days whilst everything was sorted. Not to mention gas connection/disconnection fees just to get the meter fit. It seemed like such a waste of time and money.

But it's one thing to make you have gas for a new home, another to make you get it for an existing house, even if there is gas to the street. The cost of ripping up the landscaping and driveways is huge. We may be given the option of solar electric, but that is still a huge cost.

I can see a lot of home owners who need to unexpectedly replace a hot water system, going without hot water as they can't afford the thousands of dollars to buy the solar or gas system.

I really doubt you will ever see the money returned in the form of reduced electricity bills, even as a home owner, as a landlord of course you never see any money returned to you.

Edit: Not to mention the extra supply charges when you have gas. The running costs have to be a lot cheaper to compensate for extra supply charges.

 

[Simon]

I love gas.

If you are a cook then you will know why. I have never found a stove top that comes close to being as useful as gas.

I have two teen daughters and a gf that stays over a bit. By the time I am allowed into the bathroom I often find the hot water is gone and with the current off peak electric HWS I wait until after midnight before it starts heating up again. I would much prefer that was on gas too.

When I was building my PPOR last year it wasn't even a consideration not to have gas in the kitchen and Solar HWS with gas backup.

Ciao

 

[HiEquity]

I really doubt you will ever see the money returned in the form of reduced electricity bills, even as a home owner, as a landlord of course you never see any money returned to you.

If you use an average amount of hot water over a 10 year period you definitely will make money on solar hot water in most capital cities of Australia, especially with the subsidies in place and the forthcoming rises in electricity prices.

As a landlord of course you won't and your tenants won't pay any more rent for the reduction in electricity costs they get so it's a win/lose situation. And the landlord loses in this relationship (again!).

Now we just need Dazz to pipe up and remind us that we wouldn't have this problem if we just bought sheds instead!

Sounds to me you should just go the solar electric - it should be cheaper if you don't have gas connected yet - unless you want gas to stove tops / heating as well.

 

[Rob Williams]

As a landlord of course you won't and your tenants won't pay any more rent for the reduction in electricity costs they get so it's a win/lose situation. And the landlord loses in this relationship (again!).

If you take a more global view, landlords don't really lose. What's the point of accumulating wealth if there isn't a planet left on which to enjoy it? By making a contributiion to protecting the environment, we are ALL winning.

 

[RumpledElf]

I'd be paranoid of the gas running out if I had gas hot water. You can live without a stove for a day or three (or ten) if you run out of gas and you have to wait for more, but a week without hot water? Nooooo!

Bad enough that its possible to run out of the water itself without adding another deliverable consumable that you have to go outside into the frozen arctic wastelands ... er ... I mean, backyard ... to go check the levels of regularly.

 

[Simon]

I'd be paranoid of the gas running out if I had gas hot water. You can live without a stove for a day or three (or ten) if you run out of gas and you have to wait for more, but a week without hot water? Nooooo!

Bad enough that its possible to run out of the water itself without adding another deliverable consumable that you have to go outside into the frozen arctic wastelands ... er ... I mean, backyard ... to go check the levels of regularly.

Much of Australia's population probably enjoys the luxury of piped gas rather than those big bottles that you need to get refilled. They must be a PITA.

Although I remember living in Malaysia and we all had a BBQ style bottle sitting under the kitchen sink plumbed to the stove via a fitting made from a garden hose and wormdrive clamps. When it was empty the maid would call the fella on the motor bike who had half a dozen balanced there - he would swap it over for about $6. Usually well within the hour too!

 

[lizzie]

I'd be paranoid of the gas running out if I had gas hot water. You can live without a stove for a day or three (or ten) if you run out of gas and you have to wait for more, but a week without hot water? Nooooo!

normally you'd get supplied with two bottles - and when the first one ran out you'd order a refill and switch to the second tank - and then when that ran out you'd switch back to the refilled first and order a refill for the second etc etc

i love cooking on gas and think that instant gas hot water is fantastic - you only heat what you immediately use.

p.s. great to meet you on the weekend. take my hat off for what you a doing with a small baby in tow. gets worse when they start crawling! i know you will make it!!

 

[Aaron Sice]

I love gas.

If you are a cook then you will know why. I have never found a stove top that comes close to being as useful as gas.

I have two teen daughters and a gf that stays over a bit. By the time I am allowed into the bathroom I often find the hot water is gone and with the current off peak electric HWS I wait until after midnight before it starts heating up again. I would much prefer that was on gas too.

When I was building my PPOR last year it wasn't even a consideration not to have gas in the kitchen and Solar HWS with gas backup.

Ciao

AMEN TO THAT!

elec cooking SUCKS - period. i don't care if you have the latest induction nonsense - nothing beats the heat control of an open flame.

 

[Gools]

I can't see how it would be so hard to have a spare bottle stored away in case of this sort of "emergency" if it's that big a drama......

The bottle doesn't need to be empty to get refilled anyway does it?

I'd be paranoid of the gas running out if I had gas hot water. You can live without a stove for a day or three (or ten) if you run out of gas and you have to wait for more, but a week without hot water? Nooooo!

Bad enough that its possible to run out of the water itself without adding another deliverable consumable that you have to go outside into the frozen arctic wastelands ... er ... I mean, backyard ... to go check the levels of regularly.

 

[Bargain Hunter]

If you use an average amount of hot water over a 10 year period you definitely will make money on solar hot water in most capital cities of Australia, especially with the subsidies in place and the forthcoming rises in electricity prices.

The cost of an item is only realised when you take in the total lifecycle cost. In the case of Solar Hot Water from very preliminary calculations there really are no savings as the initial installation cost is quite high.

That being said the Federal Government and NSW State Governments are both offering incentives to change to Solar, and I believe you are entitled to both rebates, so you get $2,200 back when you install a new Solar HWS. Mind you when it comes to replacing the unit you are probably back to break even.

Don't know what other states are offering but here's the federal and NSW offers.

http://www.environment.gov.au/settlements/renewable/solarhotwater/

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/rebates/ccfhws.htm

 

[ianvestor]

AMEN TO THAT!

elec cooking SUCKS - period. i don't care if you have the latest induction nonsense - nothing beats the heat control of an open flame.

I agree. That latest induction nonsense was included with my latest PPoR but compared to gas it still feels like the old coils.

 

[harb]

The cost of an item is only realised when you take in the total lifecycle cost. In the case of Solar Hot Water from very preliminary calculations there really are no savings as the initial installation cost is quite high.

And so is the service & maintenance costs afterwards. But it does give one that nice, warm & fuzzy feeling that he's doing something for the planet, even if the emissions generated by producing & servicing the solar unit are much greater then any reductions ever hoped to be made by changing to a solar system.

 

[Pushka]

HWS are not banned in apartments and flats, only separate houses, and incandescent bulbs are going to be available in specialist lighting places, at least according to the one I went to on The Parade Norwood. Our PPOR is an old Tudor, with chandeliers in the formal lounge, entry and dining room and obviously the new bulbs would look just stupid. I had been buying them up, but then the Lighting place said they would always stock the old sort.

Cant imagine life in our place with up to six adults (sons and their girlfriends!) without the instantaeous rinnai gas! And I hate cooking with electricity on the cook top.

 

[HiEquity]

even if the emissions generated by producing & servicing the solar unit are much greater then any reductions ever hoped to be made by changing to a solar system.

Maybe in Tasmania where you have predominantly hydro (at least before the drought!) but on the SWIS in WA (area between Kalbarri, Kalgoorlie and Bremer Bay - I'm guessing that's where you are?) you will get the embodied emissions back in under six months of normal use due to all the coal power you're saving. You may be getting confused with PV panels? These have an energy payback circa 5 years...

 

[s_t]

And so is the service & maintenance costs afterwards. But it does give one that nice, warm & fuzzy feeling that he's doing something for the planet, even if the emissions generated by producing & servicing the solar unit are much greater then any reductions ever hoped to be made by changing to a solar system.

The one on the roof at this place has been there for about 25 yrs, and only repair/service needed has been a replacement glass panel due to a storm. It must have saved a huge amount of electricity over that time - I can't see how your comments could be even close to accurate.

 

[RumpledElf]

*waves hi back at lizzie*

I can't see how it would be so hard to have a spare bottle stored away in case of this sort of "emergency" if it's that big a drama......
The bottle doesn't need to be empty to get refilled anyway does it?

You exchange the cylinders, and pay for a new one no matter what is in the old one.

Its just slooooooooow getting anything out here, and it is really annoying when you add theft into the deal and those gas cylinders are prime targets, as are hot water services without tanks (ie, the instant gas ones). I know a few people who've given up on gas and switched to plain electric because of theft. I had my pump (another small, expensive item) stolen a few years back and that took the cake, no running water for quite some time until I sorted the insurance out.

My IP is in a different town (also no piped gas there but it has an electric boosted solar hot water service on it) and we've had nothing stolen, house wasn't damaged at all in the year it was vacant, and most of the town has low fences and stealable items on display with no apparent issues. I'd have no problems getting gas cylinders for the IP - I've actually been considering it for getting gas heating. I think the rents and house prices are so high the undesirables just don't live in the town ...

It just irks me that the good, solid, impractical to steal BIG electric hot water services aren't kosher anymore and the small, light, very stealable ones are getting mandatory now.

 

[harb]

You may be getting confused with PV panels? These have an energy payback circa 5 years...

No, I wasn't confusing them with PV panels and I don't think much of them either. I have used some shade tolerant Unisols for a few years and wasn't to impress with the power output v. initial costs of the setup.