Bathroom reno with asbestos walls- what to do?

[sydgal]

My old bathroom is tiled to half way up the walls. I had quotes from 2 bathroom reno companies and 1 from a tile. 2 suggested that the part with the tiles could be ripped out, and i would only need partial new walls. Tiling to ceiling, no problem. However the other suggested that the entire walls should come out, not a partial strip.

None mentioned anything about the possibility of asbestos in the walls. I raised it with them, as my pre-purchase inspection report suggested the walls were fibro, and in the 1970's it's most likely to contain asbestos. The bathroom companies and the tiler told me not to worry about asbestos, and made no sugestions as to how they would deal with it.... in fact i dont think they seemed concerned about it at all.

I have since had another builder, and an asbestos company come to check the walls, and they have told me I should be cautious about renovating the fibro walls and I shouldn't be ripping out parts of the walls (like some of the "cowboy tradesmen" have suggested).

I am stuck now. Not sure what to do. I really want to renovate this bathroom.

On the assumption that it is asbestos, I am worried about having it removed and having dust left behind, even though i know they vacuum it. Also i am concerned about the added cost.

Is there any way to re-tile over existing tiles, walls and floor?

What are my options? What would you do?

This is my PPOR... plan on being there at least 5-10yrs and then selling. The tiles are very worn, some are missing/broken, and it just doesnt look nice.

 

[Aaron_C]

I would get the asbestos guys to remove it professionally. They cost a lot but it's better that they take the risk of getting mesothelioma - not you.

 

[jonesy427]

and their cost usually includes monitoring afterwards incase it spread thru the house while doing the reno.

 

[sydgal]

OK, i didnt know that they monitor it afterwards. They didnt mention it to me.
I will get a second quote from another asbestos removalist, as the person who came out seemed abit abrupt like he didnt have time to answer my questions.

 

[Olly]

I had the same dilemma a couple of years ago and rang Workcover and others to find out the dangers. Turns out non licensed ordinary people can legally remove up to 10m2. They were also pretty blase about the whole thing saying people don't realise that we are breathing in asbestos every single day without realising it. In fact, I remember her saying "remember the scenes from 9/11? That white dust everyone was covered in was in big part asbestos dust and that's all around the world 'cos we all share the same air not to mention what happens here and elsewhere on a daily basis.

That's not to say you should just gung ho smash the walls down of course - which I'm sure you won't.

Quotes for the removal will be over $1000 even for that small area.

Here's a link on how to do it yourself if you want. Basically, it's keep yourself well covered, remove the asbestos in sheets not pieces, unscrew or prise up sheets - don't smash or grind, keep it wet while doing it to keep the dust levels down, vaccuum as you go and wrap & dispose of according to the guidelines.


How Ya Go -
http://www.nsw.gov.au/fibro-and-asbestos-frequently-asked-questions

 

[marg4000]

If you do it yourself you will be up for substantial dump fees, which is a large part of the expense from professionals.

I would bite the bullet and get rid of the asbestos. There has been talk from time to time about houses having to get a certificate stating any asbestos content before selling in various states.
Marg

 

[Olly]

If you do it yourself you will be up for substantial dump fees, which is a large part of the expense from professionals.

I would bite the bullet and get rid of the asbestos. There has been talk from time to time about houses having to get a certificate stating any asbestos content before selling in various states.
Marg

When I ordered a mini skip I told them there would be asbestos sheeting and asked would they take it and when they asked how much of it there was and I told them a small bathrooms worth they said no worries - that's nothing to worry about. I asked if I'd be up for extra for dumping fees and the answer was no. Honestly, everyone was really blase about the whole thing! Except for the asbestos removal companies of course - it was all gloom and doom with them. I was really surprised by the attitude of others.

 

[Melbournian]

you need to go to bunnings and get a P2 respirator before even starting to work.

even mdf dust is bad for you

 

[marg4000]

When I ordered a mini skip I told them there would be asbestos sheeting and asked would they take it and when they asked how much of it there was and I told them a small bathrooms worth they said no worries - that's nothing to worry about. I asked if I'd be up for extra for dumping fees and the answer was no. Honestly, everyone was really blase about the whole thing! Except for the asbestos removal companies of course - it was all gloom and doom with them. I was really surprised by the attitude of others.

Friend on the Sunshine Coast (Qld) took a small piece (around 1m x 1m) of suspected asbestos to the local tip a couple of months ago and was quoted $50 to dump it. Completely covered with paint so it is sitting behind his shed.
Marg

 

[livewildcard]

Is it true the cost of environmental rectification works are 100% tax deductible in the year they are acquired. I thought I read that somewhere not sure if its just building or renovating for mums and dads can do it too? Maybe one of the experts can lend a hand.

 

[HandyAndy888]

Asbestos and asbestosis is a funny thing. I've heard of stories of workers in asbestos living to a ripe old age with no worries, yet their wives died from asbestosis (from washing their clothes). SOME people suggest that there is genetics at play too. Whatever your thoughts, it's best to be cautious, as I am.

Tradies, on the whole, think it's a joke. I personally think if they are willing to take the gamble themselves, fine, but be sure they clean up to a spotless stage. I mean SPOTLESS. Think vacuum cleaner picking up those fibers afterwards.

 

[Aaron_C]

Asbestos and asbestosis is a funny thing. I've heard of stories of workers in asbestos living to a ripe old age with no worries, yet their wives died from asbestosis (from washing their clothes). SOME people suggest that there is genetics at play too. Whatever your thoughts, it's best to be cautious, as I am.

Looks like someone has done some legal reading - although in that case the woman was unable to claim compensation from the asbestos manufacturer because of the lack of proximity.

 

[NBS]

In Qld you can remove up to 10 sqm of asbestos sheeting yourself. If you plan on doing the work yourself.

Obtain a monitor (can be hired)
Seal the area you want to remove the sheeting, including the path out.
Where disposable overalls, gloves and boots (usually part of the overall).
Where mask P2 is the minimium I'd wear a proper mask with dedicated asbestos filter/s
Remove sheets in as large a peice as possible
Put peices in a purpose supplied bin lined with plastic.
Keep moist (just enough so nil dust)
Once all removed vacuum the area with a vacuum with heppa filters (used for asbestos) DO NOT USE HOUSE VACUUM.
Remove plastic and vac again.
Vac again and path out.
Have monitors checked for any asbestos.

Sit back, grumble this is to hard, have lots of beer and say never again

Happy renovating
Brian

 

[battler]

This might help.

http://asbestosremovalguide.com/

 

[travelbug]

and their cost usually includes monitoring afterwards incase it spread thru the house while doing the reno.

In case it spreads. How does it "spread"? If you mean the fibres I wouldn't be hiring anyone that let fibres "spread" through your home. That's the whole point of getting professionals. If they think there are going to be fibres floating around you might as well not bother paying someone else to fo it.

BTW this is my guy in Sydney.

Asbestos & demolition Specialists
47739404
Shane-0428600122

 

[jonesy427]

usually you seal off the room and have a 'air lock' outside said room so you can go in/out nad take off any contaminated clothing adn dispose of it there. if you dont seal off properly the dust travels thru the air, usually via natural air circulation or air con.
thats the way we do it up here.

 

[asbestosperth]

Get it tested

Hi, before you start worring about this and that why not get the material tested.

An asbestos test should cost about 100 dollars, however i rang around and found a place in Perth that will do it for a carton of beer, some of the companies wanted 400 for a single sample, don't fall for this it's a rip off. All they do is look at the material under a microscope takes them about 5 mins.

I noticed your from SA so my Perth guy won't be able to help you, but test kits are available online for under 100 dollars.

 

[asbestosperth]

The Twin Towers

I had the same dilemma a couple of years ago and rang Workcover and others to find out the dangers. Turns out non licensed ordinary people can legally remove up to 10m2. They were also pretty blase about the whole thing saying people don't realise that we are breathing in asbestos every single day without realising it. In fact, I remember her saying "remember the scenes from 9/11? That white dust everyone was covered in was in big part asbestos dust and that's all around the world 'cos we all share the same air not to mention what happens here and elsewhere on a daily basis.


Mate just so you know asbestos diseases have a latency period of about 10-15 years sometimes more and guess what people who were exposed to the dust on september 11 are now starting too get sick, it's a fact they have done studies on the survivors over the past ten years.

 

[Hazworx]

Asbestos Removal - Professional vs DIY & Air-Monitoring

No matter who removes asbestos containing materials they must be removed in accordance with the National Code of Practice for the Safe Removal of Asbestos [NOHSC:2002(2005)].

If you employ a professional to remove asbestos make sure they hold a licence and that their licence corresponds to the asbestos materials they will be removing for you. To remove sheet asbestos, vinyl tiles, resinous backing boards (Bonded products) they should hold a B Class or Restricted Licence. To remove both bonded and friable asbestos AIB, millboard, sprayed limpet asbestos fireproofing etc. then the license held should be A Class or Unrestricted.

Check with the regulator in your State/Territory that the licence number for the removalist is a valid one - A list of valid asbestos licence holders is normally available on the regulators Website.

Next check that the removalist has full asbestos insurance. You should make sure that they have a NO Asbestos Exclusion otherwise you may find that they are not insured to remove asbestos. Also they should be carrying workers compensation insurance to cover their workers should they ever get injured or hurt while removing your asbestos materials.

Before commencing any asbestos removal work the asbestos removalist should develop a site sprecific control plan. This should be given to you and is a blueprint of how the asbestos removalist will remove and dispose of your asbestos waste safely and how they will deal with any emergency situation.

The professional asbestos removalist will utilise a combination of the wet spray removal technique and shadow vacuuming using a Type H vacuum cleaner in order to minimise, as far as practicable, the release of asbestos fibres to the airborne environment.

The spray used is not just water but includes a surfactant. The reason for this is that while Chrysotile asbestos is water attracting (Hydrophillic) Amosite and Crocidolite asbestos is water rejecting (Hydrophobic) and the surfactant helps to facilitate the wetting of these asbestos types. Bonded asbestos sheeting can contain Chrysotile asbestos or it may contain Chrysotile and Amosite and/or Crocidolite as well.

The professional asbestos removalist will use a Type H vacuum cleaner. This is fitted with a HEPA filter able to remove at least 99.97% of the airborne particles 0.3 micrometers (µm) that pass through it. That is, it can remove the respirable asbestos fibres. Ask to see the maintenance records for the vacuum cleaners that will be used - they should be readily available.

The professional asbestos removalist also issues to each person removing asbestos, a P3 respirator. They should be able to produce respirator fit test records for each respirator issued to a person and maintenance records for these respirators.

The professional asbestos removalist should also be able to produce training records for each of the people who will be removing your asbestos. If they have had no training why would you want them removing your asbestos?

The other comments posted in this thread indicate that the price of air-monitoring is sometimes included in the quotation given for removal. Be cautious of this. The Code of Practice states "A competent person, who is independent from the person responsible for the removal work should determine all air monitoring requirements".

To ensure there is no conflict of interest check to make sure that there is no affiliation between the asbestos removalist and the competent person engaged to undertake the air monitoring.

In general, air monitoring is not normally required when bonded asbestos materials are being removed. There are however, certain times when a competent person determines through risk assessment that air monitoring is required for the removal of bonded asbestos products. Each situation and circumstance is different and a risk assessment must be undertaken to determine air monitoring requirments.

If air monitoring IS required, insist the Certificate or Analysis or Report for the air monitoring is NATA endorsed. Be sure that the laboratory that stamps the NATA endorsement on the report is NATA accredited for airborne asbestos fibre analysis and not some other NATA accreditation such as water analysis of metal analysis. If this is the case the certificate will not be of any value.

For a NATA endorsed laboratory to stamp a certificate of analysis or report with their NATA stamp they have to be able to verify that the monitoring was conducted in accordance with their laboratory procedure for which they have gained the accreditation. The monitoring and analysis must also have been undertaken in accordance with the membrane filter method for the estimation of airborne asbestos fibres.

Watchout for the situation where the laboratory is NATA accredited for airborne asbestos fibre monitoring but has not undertaken the air monitoring themselves. Where this is the case the laboratories NATA accreditation only permits the analysis report to be recorded in asbestos fibres per field.

Where a person undertakes the air monitoring and has no affiliation to the NATA endorsed laboratory they may sometimes convert the fibre per field results into fibres per mL and then advise you that the Certificate of Analysis presented is NATA endorsed. IT IS NOT.

This is the reason why it is best to ensure that if asbestos air monitoring is required /desired that you do not get your price for it from your asbestos removalist. Rather get it direct from a NATA endorsed laboratory or consultant and verify their independence from the asbestos removalist.

 

[sydgal]

Update: I have had a dreadful experience with an asbestos removalist company in Sydney.

If I had to do it all again, I would not have removed the asbestos walls. I would have tiled over, or bought another place.

Huge lesson for me... just because a person has a workcover licence for removal doesnt make them good at what they do.

People, please be careful.