Bathroom renovation - DIY master plan

We are about to start renovating our PPOR and one of the first rooms to do is the upstairs bathroom. The reason for this post is to get advice on all the work we will need to do in order to renovate the bathroom. I'm taking about nuts and bolts type advice.

I am moderatly handy , but have limited time , so normally I tend to do painting and leave every thing ( including the organising ) to someone else ( eg builder or reno company). I currently no idea about basic plumbing fittings.

But as we have no time frame in which we have to get it done (and have three bathrooms) I wanted to do the outsourcing myself to cut out the middle man.

The First bathroom is trendy 70's brown , with a plastic cystern , warping vanity and a sl corroded shower screen. We contempated whether the tiles were worth recolouring , but have decided that we will replace the tiles. It is on the first floor of the house , which is not concrete slab.

The layout of the bathroom is fine , so we don't need to move plumbing etc.

We will be sourcing the vanity from a company who provided kitchen / bathroom cupboards our builder used with our previous house ( all organised by that builder ). Again tiles are now already picked and we know where to get all of the other things we need to use, namely toilet , vanity top , taps, towel rails etc .

Before we can get things put in we will need to remove things and this I see as one job I want to do.

The vanity needs to be removed, but to do that i need to take the taps off. I can shut the wter off ( finally found where the main is ...) but the taps are connected via small pipes to threaded thingos which come out of the wall. I assume there are fittings which can be screwed onto these ( while we wait to get the new vanity so we can use water in the mean time ) , but what are they?

The toilet looks easier to disconnect from the water supply as there is a tap , and the pipe can be disconnected past this .

As far as removing the toilet bowel , are there any tricks to this? I have a sledge hammer ........

From what I can see the shower screen ( framed) is screwed to one wall with two screws and the rest appears to only have some form of silicon holding it in place. There is a hob. From what I can see it's just a matter of undoing the screws and then using a thin chisel or similar tool to work the silicon off. There are pop rivits holding the two sides of the screen together and for ease of handling I was thinking of drilling these out so I can remove it in two sections for ease of handling. Does this sound correct?

Next I come to the tiles. I've been told that the floor tiles will be on sand and cement and how easy they come off depends on how well they were put down. What is the best way to get floor tiles off ? I been told I could put the new ones on top of the old ones but this will give a decent step up at the door.

Are there anythings to be carefull of when de-tileing the hob?

The wall tiles look easier as I have a decent edge to attack , but if you start gouging ( accidently ) into the wall can this cause problems with the new tiles etc. Any things to be wary of ?

Gee, well by this time , I'll have a de- tiled bare bathroom.

The tiles go in early , but what needs to be done with waterproofing the base of the shower ? Any thing to be carefull re waterproofing , do's and don'ts?

Does the vanity go on top of the tiles or do you tile up to the edge , or are both alternatives options? Is one better than the other ?

My recollection is that the toilet went on top of the tiles.

I'll get a plumber to install the toilet / shower taps / vanity taps simply for peace of mind.

The shower screen will be the last thing to go in and I'll look around at the various offerings for that.

Oh , forgot electrics... I'll leave that to the experts.

As an alternative , does anyone know a good bathroom renovating book ...... DIY .

Please feel free to add anything you thinkl I've missed out.

Don't have a bath in this one , but I notesome people have made good comment about getting baths resurfaced.

see change
 
Hi Sea Change,

There is a wealth of information on the internet. Look there first.

Use the following keywords in Google:

book bathroom DIY - 16,000. results

http://www.diynet.com/DIY/resource/0,2013,40117,FF.html

book bathroom DIY site:.au - 187 results 9 (try replacing the word 'book' with 'video')

"bathroom makeover" - 748 results

"bathroom plumbing" - 2,390 results

removing a toilet bowl - 16,500 results (also try the word 'replacing' instead of 'removing')

Fact sheets
http://ourhouse.ninemsn.com.au/ourhouse/categories/bathroom.asp

Removing a Toilet
http://www.diynet.com/DIY/article/0,2058,489,00.html

Replacing A Wax Bowl Ring On A Toilet
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/bath/fixt_repair/toilet/wax_ring/replace.htm

Assembling And Installing A New Toilet
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/bath/projects/remod_w1/toilet/new_1/install.htm

An alternative to the wax toilet bowl seal
http://www.plumb-bob.com/id22.htm
 
Hi sea change

I'd definitely tile under the vanity - often the vanity wears out ie: gets water damaged, before anything else and you can't get the same size without having one custom made. I've lost count of the no of clients that didn't bother tiling under, then a year or so later need more tiles.

Don't worry about gouging the walls a bit when removing tiles -because tiles are rigid they cover a multitude of sins! Just use a chisel and hammer and lots of sweat.

I use a black tar like waterproofing - paint on 2 coats 24 hours apart over whole floor and 100mm up walls Tape any joins first.

I really shopped round for an over bath showerscreen for my place. Ended up using Betta . They have several outlets in Sydney. Price includes onsite measure and installation and it cost 60% of next best quote.

Don't forget to keep some spare tiles!!
 
same as ani but as its up stairs dont install the shower your self unless you know what your doing as if it leaks it will do a LOT of damage a plumber will be a good insurance policy for such a thing for not much exta.
 
Sea change;

I have managed a few bathroom and kitchen reno's
Like yourself Im fairly busy workwise, and also not useful enough to muck around with plumbing/tiling etc

Can I suggest you get a few plumbers/tilers in to quote

Generally speaking a plumber will be required twice

They will come before you rip up tiles and will disconnect the water to the vanity and also remove the toilet

When your tiler has completed the tiling, the get the plumber back in to install the new toilet and re-connect the new vanity

The plumbers I have used are happy to explain the procedure -so you will learn by just talking to them!

Oh can I back ani's pick of Betta showscreens
In fact I had a guy from Betta in earlier today
Semi-frameless screen installed for $575 inc GST
-looks pretty smart
I've used them twice and both times they have been the cheapest quote....and v good quality!

Hope this helps

Cheers

Sam
 
Originally posted by see_change
It is on the first floor of the house , which is not concrete slab.

...

thingos which come out of the wall. I assume there are fittings which can be screwed onto these ( while we wait to get the new vanity so we can use water in the mean time ) , but what are they?


does the tap come out of the wall?, or is there a pipe from the wall to the tap on the vanity?


As far as removing the toilet bowel , are there any tricks to this? I have a sledge hammer ........


You say it isn't on a slab, so the toilet should only be screwed down. have a look at the base of the bowl. There should be two (large) screws on either side. Get a large screwdriver and enjoy (try some WD40 to loosen)


From what I can see the shower screen ( framed) is screwed to one wall with two screws and the rest appears to only have some form of silicon holding it in place. There is a hob. From what I can see it's just a matter of undoing the screws and then using a thin chisel or similar tool to work the silicon off. There are pop rivits holding the two sides of the screen together and for ease of handling I was thinking of drilling these out so I can remove it in two sections for ease of handling. Does this sound correct?

easy as. Try a stanley knife for removing the silicon.


Next I come to the tiles. I've been told that the floor tiles will be on sand and cement and how easy they come off depends on how well they were put down. What is the best way to get floor tiles off ? I been told I could put the new ones on top of the old ones but this will give a decent step up at the door.

Here I disagree. They would be in sand and cement if it was a slab. If they are on timber floor, they will be glued on sheeting. the sheeting will be nailed to the floor. Get a blunt chisel (for leverage) and a hammer. The flooring and tiles will come up in one.


Are there anythings to be carefull of when de-tileing the hob?
Chances are, you have a sement hob. So the tiles will be harder to remove here, but the chisel and hammer will be fine. One thing to be careful of is that old tiles become brittle and can throw small (sharp) chips. wear long sleeves.


The wall tiles look easier as I have a decent edge to attack , but if you start gouging ( accidently ) into the wall can this cause problems with the new tiles etc. Any things to be wary of ?


Check to see what the wall is made of (if you can). Sometimes old bathroom walls are asbestos (waterproof you see). If they are, just tile over the top of the old ones.

If its just plasterboard, you'll be fine so long as the holes you make are less than the size of the tile you've got going in.



The tiles go in early , but what needs to be done with waterproofing the base of the shower ? Any thing to be carefull re waterproofing , do's and don'ts?


Before you start attacking tiles, get some tape, tape up the shower and put some water in the bottom. Crawl under the house 10 mins later and see if there's water.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you do need to waterproof, get the plastic type and use that old bandaging you have in the office. Cover all the joins with bandage and paint away. You need at least 1mm thickness where you want waterproofed.

Think, where can water go? Then, paint it. This means 30 cm above baths, ditto for vainty, and all over the shower.


Does the vanity go on top of the tiles or do you tile up to the edge , or are both alternatives options? Is one better than the other ?

Vanity on top of tiles. make life easier for tiling.


My recollection is that the toilet went on top of the tiles.
definelty screwed in then.


As an alternative , does anyone know a good bathroom renovating book ...... DIY .


House and garden have a nice series on DIY this and that. I'm sure they'd have a bathroom one...


Please feel free to add anything you thinkl I've missed out.


you're going to need to put flooring down before you retile (make sure you put in plently of nails). If you are tiling yourself, make sure you use the flexible glue and grout. You need it for the movement (the more nails you use, the less movement you'll have between the flooring and the floorboards. You still have the floorboard movement to deal with thou).


I've also had converstations with a desinger who insists that you can have a polished floor in a bathroom without rot. You just have to put down a couple of layers of oil.

I haven't done it, and I'm not too comfortable with the whole idea, but its a possibility.

Jas
 
Hi Sea_change

How to demoish a bathroom my way:-

Shower Screen - the sliding door and frame rivets on one side attach the frame to the fixed panel drill these rivets out. On the wall side its normallY three srecws remove these. Now the only thing holding the door frame in place is the silicone, use a stanley knife to cut this away you will need to keep working at it until you have finally broken the bond. Normally takes 3-4 goes.

The fixed pane slides into a moulding at the wall which will be screwed into the wall. You will need to drill out the rivets holding the glass frame to the molding then you will need to cut at the silicone at the floor level until you can lift the fix glass out. Now undo the screws holding the miolding on and maybe also cut the silicone.

Next you will need 3 1/2" brass end caps and some plumbing tape. In turn remove each of the fittings namely the cistern tap and the hot and cold vanity taps. For the cistern tap first turn it of making sure that you can actually turn it of (washer may be RS). If washer does not work then you will need to have main turned of whilst disconnecting the cistern pipe from the tap. Once cistern pipe is removed the main must be turned off now remove the tap and replace with one of the brass caps make sure you use plumbing tape on the thread. Turn main back on to test sea,l if it leaks turn of main release presure in pipes by using tap in kitchen and reseale with more plumbing tape.

Do the same for the two fittings under the vanity except there is no tap to remove. Also disconnect the 'S' bend from the basin and riser.

Having disconnected the plumbing you can now remove the cistern via the screws at the top and work at the vanity which should now be loose or may have a couple of screws holding the cupboard to the wall. Normally not a difficult job.

Do not use a sledge hammer on the toiulet bowl as it can splinter. Better to keep it in one piece. Normally these can be simply pushed of the joint which seperates from the surrounding tiles. If it refuses to budge then a hammer and cold chissel at the base (cement ) can work. Another way is to simply leave it until you are removing the floor tiles at which time it should be very simple to remove.

Remove all the taps handles. Your on your own as there are many different types of fittings.

Removing the ties

Seal with sticky tape or similar the shower and centre waste to stop any debry falling down. Also a good idea to tape up the vanity riser and bath waste. If you are keeping the bath then also tape up the whole bath and cover with padding. I normally get them painted so want minimal damage.

Start with the wall tiles first. Make sure you have protective cloths and gloves as broken tiles are very sharp. If you can get the tiles of without damage to the walls then go for it. I assume that the walls are fibro whihc is very brittle so if you find the the glue is holding tight then it is easier to simply remove the whole lining and reline the bathroom.

At this point you need to have either bare fibro with no holes or cracks or you are now looking at stud walls up to a certain level. If I remove the lining then I normally will pick a level beyond I will leave the lining (safe putting in new cornisches). This is achieved by finding suitable noggins and chisseling a break into the lining. This can be messy and it might be easier to remove including the cornisches.

Clear out you mess as you are now ready to attack the floor. You will notice at the door there is an aluminium angle strip. Try and work at this to remove it as this gives you a good star at the floor tiles. As you mentioned it depends on how well they were put on as to how easy they will lift. Just chip away at them but do no damage the compressed fibro underneath. Sometimes all you need is a spade, particularly if they are drummy.

Regarding the hob I normally remove it using The Sledge, and in fact this can be another place to start on the floor tiles. The reason I elect to remove rather then leave it is that the tiles is what hold it in place. You will need to remove all old cement.

By now you should have a very bare bathroom.

Rebuilding the bathroom

Reline the room. If you are joining sheets or have to join to old sheets then I will insert noggins where the joints will be.

Having relined the walls the next step is the most crucial step and that is the water proofing. Get this wrong and the leaks will frustrate you forever.

There are a number of system but the main ones are plastic based 'paints' which need to be reinforced with fibreglass mat. Some these days don't as they already have matting in the liquid. There as companies who specialise in the application of a system, let your fingers do the work. It is expensive as it takes some time between coats. Personally I do it myself as I will apply extra coats just to make sure.

By the way this is applied to the whole floor and normally into the wastes, at least 300mm up the walls and covering all walls that make up the shower recess.

In tilling the bathroom I get the whole room tiled and then put the vanity on some fibro to make up for the slopping floor. This will extend the live of the vanity.

Setting the pan is actually achieved by chopping out the tile under the designate pan spot. Oh those new tiles. Unfortunately the cement used in setting the pan just will not adhere to the shiny side of tiles.

I think I have anwered most of your questions

Cheers
 
Hi See_change,

Bathrooms are the hardest wearing rooms in the house and not doing it right will cost you a lot of problems down the track

If time is limited ...

Rip out bathroom yourself and prepare walls

- Get a plumber to disconnect the plumbing to the vanity and put plugs on the water pipes.

- Rip the tiles out. Use a cold chisel and malet for most of them and a small jack hammer to remove tiles from the floor if the house is on a concrete slab. - Don't keep the hob - They tend to leak and are not used these days

- Rip the vanity out by hand

- Remove the shower screen by hand

- Get a tiler to do all the tiling unless you have tiled before and have te time

- Toilets do not even have to be screwed down. You can sit the toilet on some tile spacers and silicone it to the floor. Make sure the toilet is level otherwise your tennants may fall off it !

- Get a shower screen company to measure and fit the shower screen 'No bathrooms are square'

- Put the vanity in position and cut holes in it for the Hot/cold water pipes and waste. Get a plumber to do the plumbing

Bobs your uncle
 
Back
Top