Blown Fuse Replacement??

[wombat]

Just took a call from my PM, she said that the powerpoints are not working in the kitchen of one of my old units. This unit has the old wire type fuses - I told her that it's more than likely just a blown fuse, get the tenant to check the fuse.

She told me that this is an electricians job - even a handy man won't touch it.

I am a bit surprised, but is this true?

wombat

 

[madmurf]

HI Wombat

Shes correct.
In fact if it came down to it we the public shouldnt even change light globes.

Cheers

 

[nomadic]

I had a smilar problem when an oven suddenly stopped working. I asked the PM to ask the tenant to check the fuse and replace the wire. Tenant said she wouldn't touch it so i had to get my handyman in to replace it (i was o'seas at the time). While you're at it, perhaps get it replaced with a circuit breaker and "educate" the tenant how to flick it back up if it blows again.

 

[manny]

Hi Wombat,

as per Nomadic's reply, circuit breakers are dead cheap now days & can buy them in 3 packs, so if ever anything trips the circuit breaker, the tenant can simply flick the switch back on rather than needing to have to fiddle with wires, etc... (ensure though that u get the correct ampage breakers, guys selling them can tell you which ones to use for lights & which for powerpoints, etc...) Due to them being cheap, I'd get them all changed for them, then everyone's happy (& if u buy b4 June 30, u can claim it in this financial year )

Cheers,

Manny.

 

[willair]

She told me that this is an electricians job -

Wombat,
spend the money on a new elec/board
if the circuit breaks,then the problem
is serious,with the old copper fuse systems
they burn.install a trip out system.
good luck.
willair.

 

[Lplate]

IMHO it's a bit over the top to call an electrician for a blown fuse. Home owners fix their own all the time. Grannies do it.

This country drafted 19 yr olds to go to war, surely they could change fuses.

Tenants are expected to do it all around the world including in public housing. Here is an example: repairs

Still, if tenants are willing to pay for the privilege who am I to argue?

 

[willair]

Lplate,
look at this from the other angle,if the tenant gets a shock
while fixing the fuse who does she or he Sue?
good luck
willair..

 

[Lplate]

willair
Hi, I hope not The tenant could try it on with my insurer though.

In older houses I changed to the switch type circuit breakers some time ago because they are more convenient. However, like fuses, these are designed for householders to operate. The fuse box was installed by a qualified person and the existence of fuses did not indicate that it was faulty, the ceramics were OK.

It is a normal expectation that householders change fuses and this is demonstrated by the number of electricity authorities who request consumers to check and change fuses where required. These authorities give instructions on fuse replacement. The tenant is the householder, not me.

A blown fuse is usually because of a circuit overload, for example a person plugs in a faulty appliance. I am prepared to reimburse a call-out where the electrician attributes the cause to house wiring or faulty lessor-supplied appliances.

Like you I am concerned about an increasingly litigious society

LPlate

Qld Dept Housing requires tenants to see to fuses. I tried to attach the URL but kept getting problems. Hope this works:
www.housing.qld.gov.au/renting_a_home/dept_housing/living_in_atsih/maintnce_reprs.htm

 

[madmurf]

Be Carefull

willair
Hi, I hope not The tenant could try it on with my insurer though.

In older houses I changed to the switch type circuit breakers some time ago because they are more convenient. However, like fuses, these are designed for householders to operate. The fuse box was installed by a qualified person and the existence of fuses did not indicate that it was faulty, the ceramics were OK.

It is a normal expectation that householders change fuses and this is demonstrated by the number of electricity authorities who request consumers to check and change fuses where required. These authorities give instructions on fuse replacement. The tenant is the householder, not me.

A blown fuse is usually because of a circuit overload, for example a person plugs in a faulty appliance. I am prepared to reimburse a call-out where the electrician attributes the cause to house wiring or faulty lessor-supplied appliances.

Like you I am concerned about an increasingly litigious society

LPlate

Qld Dept Housing requires tenants to see to fuses. I tried to attach the URL but kept getting problems. Hope this works:
www.housing.qld.gov.au/renting_a_home/dept_housing/living_in_atsih/maintnce_reprs.htm

If you look at the way this is worded it doesn’t actually say the TENANT should replace the fuse.

The following hints may assist you solve some maintenance problems before reporting them to the Department:
No Electricity
• check if your neighbours/street lights are working;
• check the switchboard and see that the main switch is on;
• older houses have fuses - replace any broken fuse wire with the same size wire. Power points use 15-amp wire, lights use 10 amp-wire.

Do not attempt this if you are unsure;
• check circuit breakers are turned on; and
• if a safety switch is fitted, check that it is turned on.


Im sorry but I don’t agree as you guys are playing with fire when telling a reluctant tenant to replace a fuse. They could use a nail and the house could burn down.
Now let see your insurance company take you for a row on that.
As the landlord / owner of the property you advised an unqualified non licensed person to see to an electrical fault and due to your direction an illegal repair was carried out which caused the fire.
Mmmmm. But then again its all about risk and what you can sleep with at

Cheers

Madmurf

 

[Brenda Irwin]

I get billed all the time for light globes replaced. Fortunately, my sparky usually does a few of them at once so he's not called out all the time. It is a tax deductable expense and not something I worry about, although they are annoying little bills.

If you really want something to complain about, one of my tenants asked my pm to apply to me to lobb the tops out of the date palms, because they were dropping little nuts and the lawnmower was hitting them.

I advised the pm to introduce the tenant to a great little invention called a 'rake'. If the rake doesn't appeal them then the lawnmover should also have a great piece of ingenuity called 'a height adjustment lever'.

My other pm got complaints about another tenant who was mowing over fallen macadamia nuts on a low lawnmower setting. He was sending nuts flying all over the neighbours house, like missiles. Tenant has been also advised to only cut the grass on a high setting, to avoid hitting nuts all over the neighbourhood.

 

[Bear924]

Hi all,

I've had a little to do with the Qld electrical safety Act 2002, which has certainly changed the way the company I work for undetakes electrical duties.
The Act states that people should be unable to access live electrical equipment without using a tool. Therefore a ceramic fuse that is pulled out and leaves an exposed live electrical part does not comply with the Act. Even the circuit breakers that you can use to replace rewireable fuses are dodgy because somebody can remove them without a tool. If somebody at work pulls a ceramic fuse from its holder and the cover that goes over the energised terminal has been removed, the person MUST place the fuse back in immediatley and call an electrician to make safe.

Therefore I believe if a tennet did get a boot from a rewirable fuse they would probably have a good case of compensation. If a tennet removed a fuse for the fun of it, stuck their finger into the fuse holder to see what could happen... then got a boot.. probably would still have a case.

Another point on the circuit breaker that can be used to replace rewirable fuses. Be a little bit wary about the size of the circuit breaker you install to replace a rewirable fuse, the circuit breaker is the only thing protecting the cable and thus stoping an electrical fire/ house fire.

I will not rent out a property without an earth leakage circuit breakers (at least on the power circuits) because I believe a court could find a landlord negligent for not having an ELCB installed since they have been a standard safety device for quite a while now.

Lights... Install those energy saving fluro lamps, last a long time, don't cost that much anymore. Add to marketing of property as well, help in rent easier. Decreased hassles from tennets.

 

[GreatPig]

The Act states that people should be unable to access live electrical equipment without using a tool

What about a pop-up toaster?

GP

 

[kissfan]

My other pm got complaints about another tenant who was mowing over fallen macadamia nuts on a low lawnmower setting. He was sending nuts flying all over the neighbours house, like missiles.

Is it just me that thinks this would be funny to sit back and watch?

Unless of course I was the neighbour.

Regards
Marty

 

[Les]

G'day Greatpig,

What about a pop-up toaster?

Hehe, had a bit of a laugh, then realised it really is a very good question.

I think the difference between fuses, etc. and a toaster, is that the latter is not part of the "fixed wiring", and, as such, someone using it could reasonably be expected to have PULLED OUT THE PLUG before attacking it with a knife !!! But then, you can't legislate against idiocy (or so I've heard).

In fact, the mention of a toaster leads me to share a true story :-

In my earlier years, I was often called upon to go to Sydney for training (usually a week or two). At that time, the company held "company units", and these were occupied by whomever was "in training" that week; usually two people to a unit.

I flew down from Bne on a Sunday, walked in, and met my temporary flatmate, who happened to be attacking a toaster with a knife. He was a younger bloke, and (it seems ) hadn't "flatted" on his own before....

The toaster was a MESS, I asked how it got that way, so he told me he'd got hungry, decided to make "toasted sandwiches" and ........ You've probably guessed it already, but, YES, that was what he'd done !!!! Made a couple of sandwiches, put (forced?) them into the toaster, and expected to turn out lunch !!!!! Hehe, pity he liked cheese toasted sandwiches so much - he could've chosen ham for a better result.

I just laughed, and went off to unpack my bag. He turned out to be a nice bloke, just a bit lacking in the self-help department

Regards,

 

[GreatPig]

Les,

I think the difference between fuses, etc. and a toaster, is that the latter is not part of the "fixed wiring", and, as such, someone using it could reasonably be expected to have PULLED OUT THE PLUG before attacking it with a knife

I would "reasonably expect" most people not to pull the plug before attacking it with a knife

Then there's light sockets for incandescent bulbs. They're fixed wiring, but I guess you could be expected to turn the light switch off before sticking your finger in there. Mind you, if you have two light switches that operate the same light, then knowing if the light is on or off is pretty much impossible (when the bulb's dead or out).

GP

 

[Jimmyjamjars]

RCD protection

I would urge everyone to have any properties they have tenanted out to get earth leakage protection devices fitted. It is a small price to pay for the peace of mind of knowing that people won't get fried in your properties. A licenced electrician can fit one to your place for under 300 bucks and you should get him to put a 4 pole unit in. This way, he can put the 2 power circuits & the lighting circuit through it and if your tenant puts his fingers in the light socket or sticks a knife in the toaster, HE WILL NOT DIE. Best 300 bucks you'll spend IMHO.
JIM

 

[Les]

G'day greatpig,

Mind you, if you have two light switches that operate the same light, then knowing if the light is on or off is pretty much impossible (when the bulb's dead or out).

Now THAT is a very VERY VERY good point.

And, as I don't have these, I have no direct experience with them.

But, I DO have a very healthy respect for electricity, combined with a bit of knowledge, and I would have no problem dealing with this situation. In fact, I have no qualms whatsoever in changing a light bulb with the switch ON (but I do have a wife - second name "qualms" ) as I also know that glass is a VERY poor conductor of electricity. But, of course, I wouldn't be touching any of those copper-looking bits

As always, I am probably tending to presume everyone else has the same experience that I do (in a household), and that most everybody has had SOME kind of contact with electricity in its RAWEST form..... But I could be wrong. Didn't we all grow up with parents? Don't we LEARN so much from them? (Often we learn what we SHOUDN'T do - but that's OK too)

In the end, though, it might come down to "Do we assume our tenants have the same knowledge that we do when it comes to dangerous bits of a house"???? Is an electrician's visit just a further "Insurance premium"?

Good points GP,

Regards,

PS I also spent some time in a flat with a registered electrician who DEMONSTRATED how he could stick a screwdriver into the "live" power feed of a wall socket while touching the metal part of the screwdriver (but he also made DAMNED SURE that no part of his body was inadvertently touching anything that could "earth" him...) If you KNOW that you know, many things are possible.........

 

[GreatPig]

Les,

I have no qualms whatsoever in changing a light bulb with the switch ON ... as I also know that glass is a VERY poor conductor of electricity

Well I once got a good belt from a light socket - enough to throw me off the chair I was standing on. Can't remember exactly what I was doing now, whether it was just changing the bulb or trying to fix the light socket itself, but it came as something of a surprise . It was in a rented house as well.

And I have a university degree in electrical engineering...

GP

 

[Lplate]

To clarify, our places have earth leakage installed.

However this would not help anyone who (say) puts a double insulated appliance in water. Eg drops a hair dryer into a vanity or bath. Could it be argued that I am also liable because I supplied a power point in a bathroom?

In making a tenant responsible for fuse replacement (or flicking the breakers) I am not directing the person to do it himself. He/she can choose how to solve the problem They are adults too. It is his/her choice to go ahead or pay for an electrician. However we will reimburse if it can be demonstrated that the problem was ours.

 

[Jimmyjamjars]

However this would not help anyone who (say) puts a double insulated appliance in water. Eg drops a hair dryer into a vanity or bath.

Sorry Lplate but this is totally incorrect. The way earth leakage devices work is that both the active and neutral conductors pass through a toroidal core. Any imbalance caused by current leaking to earth via, lets say "water in a vanity or bath" will cause an imbalance in the core, tripping the RCD. That is, if one amp is travelling through the active conductor, through the toroidal core, and to earth via the water in the bath caused by the double insulated hair dryer, there is not one amp passing back through the toroidal core via the neutral conductor. The fact that a double insulated appliance has no earth pin is of no relevance as an RCD doesn't monitor between active and earth but senses imbalance between active and neutral. The last thing I would want is for someone to NOT install a Safety Switch because they thought it wouldn't trip with Double Insulated appliances. Hope this clears things up.
JIM