Break Lease - Domestic Violence Issue

[Bazza]

Hi Guys,

One of our tenants broke the lease and gave us a Form 13 Notice of Intention to Leave. They have moved out and we are currently advertising for another tenant.

We assumed that according to the law we are able to deduct from the bond advertising costs and rent until a suitable tenant is found. Not so....

We were informed today by the Tenant Advice Advocacy Service that Section 211 of the Residential Tenancy Act 1994 allows tenants to make an application to the tribunal for a termination order where safety is an issue. Apparently, they have a domestic violence order in place against the ex-husband.

Any advice before we front the Tribunal would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers,

Bazza

 

[Petal]

I am sure Dazz will have some sage advice for you Bazza

 

[Petal]

Sorry Bazza on a serious note I think you would be hard pressed to win at the tribunal. Although it is annoying as these domestic violence orders are becoming common and increasingly women who take them out, 10 minutes later let their violent partner back into their lives.

Doesn't help you one little bit Bazza and it will be interesing to see if there are any other viewpoints.

 

[boomtown]

Sucks but I would be inclined to let that one go if in fact a DVO was filed.

 

[Simon]

You don't have to play every shot mate.

Every now and then it is worth letting one go through to the keeper and playing the next ball.

I wouldn't be adding to this woman's lot in life. I'd pay her bond back less costs and if she wants to fight it at the tribunal then perhaps I would try for some sort of compromise.

 

[Dazz]

We were informed today by the Tenant Advice Advocacy Service that Section 211 of the Residential Tenancy Act 1994 allows......

.....hmmm, so I gather you were unaware of this section and needed an advocate of your Tenant to point it out to you ?? Too late for that Bazza....they've got you on the back foot now.

Any advice before we front the Tribunal would be gratefully appreciated.

Fully read and fully understand the Act that governs and dictates the relationship you have with your Tenant. It ain't that big. If an uneducated 18 yr old wet behind the ears secretary can pass an exam on the document, surely it behoves you to not allow yourself to be tripped up so easily.

You are a residential Landlord and in the Landlording game. The rule book for the game is the RTA. Know the rules or don't play the game. Delegating this responsibility to a PM or a lawyer is IMO slack at best, and negligent at worst.


I'll take Simon's advice and let Petal's quip fly thru to the keeper.

 

[pennyk]

Can you get the rent from the ex-husband?
Pen

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Although it is annoying as these domestic violence orders are becoming common and increasingly women who take them out, 10 minutes later let their violent partner back into their lives.

Let's not forget Petal, that women are increasingly making false DV claims to get more out of ex husbands in divorce proceedings. Not saying this is what has happened here, just putting it out there. This is a big part of the reason why DV orders are on the increase.

Mark

 

[natmarie73]

What's the value of the bond to you? In all honesty if it were me I would let it go. A few hundred dollars does not mean much to me but it might be the difference between this woman finding a safe place to live or having to try her luck with increasingly overfull shelters.

I would let it go and move on rather than have to deal with a bashed woman and her possibly criminal ex in a tribunal.

 

[Bazza]

Thanks for all the advice guys. We have decided to move on as most of you suggested.

In order to claim landlords insurance for the lost rent and advertising costs do we need to have the Tribunal make a ruling on this case or can we just agree to drop it and insurance covers the cost?

Cheers,

Bazza

 

[natmarie73]

Let's not forget Petal, that women are increasingly making false DV claims to get more out of ex husbands in divorce proceedings. Not saying this is what has happened here, just putting it out there. This is a big part of the reason why DV orders are on the increase.

Mark

Statistics please.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

http://www.mediaradar.org/

Now before you say 'Oh that's an American site', there is very little information coming out of Australia. We share an almost identical culture to the U.S. so it's fair to say that results can be similar. You might like to take particular interest in the study done in 32 countries, the link of which is on the left hand side.

Mark

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Nat,

Here's a table with some stats for you.

http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/resreport15/appendixa.html

Also, slightly off topic, but still relevant I feel is the table below showing DV stats. As you can see, in the clear majority of cases, the percentage of women that are the perpetrators of DV is higher than men.

So you might be wondering, why don't more men come forward? Well, have a read of this article and you'll get a good understanding as to why (thanks Duncan for the link):

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24189522-17001,00.html

Mark

 

[J Martin]

I really can't see how the personal issues of your tenant should become your financial problem. Surely you shouldn't be expected to bear the financial costs of your tenants' issues...

I have a very empathetic nature, but ultimately, it really should be your personal decision as whether you forgo the reletting losts.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Some quotes from the article "No Room for Men at the Abuse Shelter, but Fido can Tag Along":

A former employee of the Another Way shelter in Lake City, Fla., shared this account:

“Around November or December 2007, a man came into the office. He was crying, and his arms were bruised, seeking assistance,” the woman revealed. The intake worker “took him into her office. Then to my amazement I heard her tell him that Another Way doesn’t provide services or assistance for men…My heart went out to this man because it was evident that he was truly a victim of domestic violence.”

The appalled woman wrote, “This is discrimination and violating men’s rights. There are men with children that are being victimized. It takes courage for men to come forward and admit they are victims. Then when they do, we revictimize them all over again.”

This from a former DV shelter worker:

"Here’s the dirty little secret of the multi-million dollar shelter industry: the great majority of women in so-called “abuse” shelters have never been battered or suffered physical harm at the hands of their abuser.

A woman who volunteered at the YWCA Crisis Center in Enid, Okla. for three years revealed, “In all of that time, there was one woman admitted who I was sure had been severely physically abused. The rest of the women and kids who came and went were playing the system to the hilt!”

Here's a link to just one of many examples:

http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=870

And here's a letter from a cop:

http://glennsacks.com/blog/?p=2566

Mark

 

[Bazza]

I really can't see how the personal issues of your tenant should become your financial problem. Surely you shouldn't be expected to bear the financial costs of your tenants' issues...

I have a very empathetic nature, but ultimately, it really should be your personal decision as whether you forgo the reletting losts.

Exactly. We rent out our property and they agreed to rent it. Why should we have to pay for personal issues. Apparently the ex-husband was wanting to see his children. Seems fair enough to me. I would like to hear the outer side of the story.

Cheers,

Bazza

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Hi Nat,

I found another article - this one from WA. Some interesting information there, but this line especially jumped out at me:

"But that legal system served the interests of the punitive mother very well since it failed so dismally to enforce contact orders and allowed allegations of violence to be used to deny fathers contact with their children. Remember the 1999 magistrates’ survey which found 90 per cent of magistrates believed false apprehended violence orders were used as a tactic in family law cases “to deprive partners access to children”?"

I would say that 90% of judges believing that false DV claims are used as weapons by women in divorce proceedings is fairly significant. Lawyers also don't like the new direction, since they lose:

"Be prepared for more dirty tricks as lobby groups do their best to discredit the FRCs, aided by nervous lawyers who rightly fear that if the centres are successful, fewer divorcing families will use lawyers to fight over children.

In a local paper on NSW’s south coast, a lawyer recently issued a dire warning that without legal advice parents could be persuaded by FRC workers to enter “unacceptable parenting plans” with “dramatic legal consequences”."

Here's a link to the article: http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=54&ContentID=20563#

Mark

 

[Dazz]

I really can't see how the personal issues of your tenant should become your financial problem. Surely you shouldn't be expected to bear the financial costs of your tenants' issues...

This is integral and crucial to your decision to be a residential Landlord. It's all dictated by the wording in the RTA.


If you aren't prepared to put up with the vagaries of the Tenant mules, and all of their dramas, then don't hitch your wealth wagon to 'em.

 

[Bazza]

This is integral and crucial to your decision to be a residential Landlord. It's all dictated by the wording in the RTA.


If you aren't prepared to put up with the vagaries of the Tenant mules, and all of their dramas, then don't hitch your wealth wagon to 'em.

I can't recite the RTA 1994 backwards - as it seems you can Dazz. But may be I have a life and better things to do with my time.

Unfortunately as landlords, we have to deal with tenants who are happy to deliberately take advantage of us by using government services provide free to them. Can someone please tell me how to get in touch with the 'Landlords Advice and Advocacy Service'?

Cheers,

Bazza

 

[natmarie73]

Thanks Mark,

I don't want to hijack this thread so I won't reply here. Very interesting reading though.