D'oh.... I thought I could learn how a time poor investor buy an interstate IP on their own (especially sight unseen)!
I was wondering about that too... Why Sim is paying more attention to this matter?
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Buyers Agents
- Thread starter D.T.
- Start date
From 10k most would pocket 7 or 8k most don't even have an office or office staff.
The BA i used told me he has access to other properties not listed on real estate sites but after signing up he was showing everything that was coming on realestate.com.au. But before he started searching ofcourse he needs some $ non refundable because his time is money LOL.
Like someone said in another thread if a buyers agent has an extensive property portfolio and can prove it sign up if not cya later just another salesperson.
I am currently organising to use a buyers agent, having not done so before.
The main advantage to me is to access potential properties that I could not otherwise buy. I have had success buying under market value, but not nearly as under as I would like. If a buyers agent can get me a deal that is far enough under market value that I can revalue and get my original deposit and the buyers agent fee back out, for another property, then I don't see a reason not to use them.
Of course I would always do my own research on any deal presented and not rely on a buyers agents word. If I don't think it's actually under market, or is being presented as a better deal than it is, I would not buy.
IMO, I am paying to leverage the extensive behind the scenes contacts that they have built up over many years of successful investing. To me that is more than worth the fee.
The main advantage to me is to access potential properties that I could not otherwise buy. I have had success buying under market value, but not nearly as under as I would like. If a buyers agent can get me a deal that is far enough under market value that I can revalue and get my original deposit and the buyers agent fee back out, for another property, then I don't see a reason not to use them.
Of course I would always do my own research on any deal presented and not rely on a buyers agents word. If I don't think it's actually under market, or is being presented as a better deal than it is, I would not buy.
IMO, I am paying to leverage the extensive behind the scenes contacts that they have built up over many years of successful investing. To me that is more than worth the fee.
Wouldn't matter where the property was with the tools available,could be around the corner,or on the other side of Australia.The SAME process takes place.
I don't understand why some people are titchy (or just plain anti) the existence of Buyers Agents.
If you don't like BAs, relax and keep your shirt on, or perhaps even just shut up and step aside, because - fact is - that no-one is forcing you to use one.
So why begrudge their existence?
And what do you want to complain about next?
Pill pushing doctors?
Lawyers who charge for every 6 mins? and every email and phone call?
Public servants who do...? (well, lets be honest... nobody knows what public servants do, especially the public servants...)
Or maybe some blue collar types...
Plumbers who want to charge double-time just because a pipe breaks at 10 pm (since when did pipe's agree to only break on a M to F, 9 to 5 schedule, excluding holidays?)
Locksmiths who, lets be honest, you know you have to pay since they've just demonstrated how easily they could break into your home.
Sparkies who charge to re-wire a plug that takes them 5 mins and that you could have done yourself, were it not for your fear of electrocution.
etc and so on.
What?
See I would have thought that salesperson is good.... What I would care about is their ability to work to an agreed brief, and to research, negotiate, and to be meticulous in their attention to detail. That's what you're hiring a BA to do. Who cares if they live week to week. If they can sniff you out a great deal and negotiate it, that's all that matters.
If you want someone with a property portfolio - then find a mentor. That's not what a BA does afaik.
If you don't like BAs, relax and keep your shirt on, or perhaps even just shut up and step aside, because - fact is - that no-one is forcing you to use one.
So why begrudge their existence?
And what do you want to complain about next?
Pill pushing doctors?
Lawyers who charge for every 6 mins? and every email and phone call?
Public servants who do...? (well, lets be honest... nobody knows what public servants do, especially the public servants...)
Or maybe some blue collar types...
Plumbers who want to charge double-time just because a pipe breaks at 10 pm (since when did pipe's agree to only break on a M to F, 9 to 5 schedule, excluding holidays?)
Locksmiths who, lets be honest, you know you have to pay since they've just demonstrated how easily they could break into your home.
Sparkies who charge to re-wire a plug that takes them 5 mins and that you could have done yourself, were it not for your fear of electrocution.
etc and so on.
What?
See I would have thought that salesperson is good.... What I would care about is their ability to work to an agreed brief, and to research, negotiate, and to be meticulous in their attention to detail. That's what you're hiring a BA to do. Who cares if they live week to week. If they can sniff you out a great deal and negotiate it, that's all that matters.
If you want someone with a property portfolio - then find a mentor. That's not what a BA does afaik.
Sim
Administrator
I sit in front of a computer all day ... most of the BA's I know spend their days out looking at property for their clients.
You might need to wait until after hours (or at least later in the day) for more response from the BA's.
Sim
Administrator
Because I deleted a problematic thread and replaced it with this one ... I'm just checking to make sure things are kept under control.
... oh, and I'm procrastinating dealing with the 100+ support requests waiting for me in my HelpDesk app
Sim
Administrator
The BAs I know all have at least one staff member (admin assistant), plus they spend most of their day out driving around, looking at property. That costs a lot.
Then there are bookkeeping and accounting costs, website costs, computers, phones, license fees, etc etc.
Then again, I only know a few BA's and they are very professional - perhaps I simply don't know enough bad ones?
I think many people grossly underestimate how much it actually costs to run a business. If people believe they can make a killing charging BA fees of $5k they they should do it. At that price you're bound to attract some attention as it's almost half what most are charging.
I'll even be the first client (I'm very serious here). I'm currently in the market for a multi unit dwelling (4 or less). CF+ is great but I'll settle for cashflow neutral as longer term growth is more important to me. I'll happily pay $5k at settlement if the deal stacks up well.
Running a buyers agent business.
- company or sole trader business registration
- website/email
- landline/mobile
- car/service/rego/insurance <--- most have to do this regardless of being a BA or not.
- petrol
- buyers agent license renewal or whatever else is needed once in a blue moon
- advertising
- somersoft forum
- whatever else i missed
Have 2-3 clients a month @ $10k works out to be a decent ROI, no one is forcing anyone to use a BA anyway, but if i used another one i would not pay a retainer fee and recommend people not to do this either.
If the BA has been successful in the past it will not be rocket science for them to find the property you are after, sign an agreement with them that once property is found full payment will be made and purchase will only be made by using them only or sign a set time agreement to find property in that period of time or retainer fee to be refunded.
Most will tell you ''time is money'' we all know time is money and nobody should be working for free, but if you are good at your job and the client has signed an agreement with you that should be secure enough that he/she is not wasting your time.
One more thing, ask to see how much property they own and what the property has done since purchase after all.......all humans love/work for money if you are great at your job you don't need to wait for a call for a potential of 10k when you can rinse and repeat it yourself for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars using the skills you have.
- company or sole trader business registration
- website/email
- landline/mobile
- car/service/rego/insurance <--- most have to do this regardless of being a BA or not.
- petrol
- buyers agent license renewal or whatever else is needed once in a blue moon
- advertising
- somersoft forum
- whatever else i missed
Have 2-3 clients a month @ $10k works out to be a decent ROI, no one is forcing anyone to use a BA anyway, but if i used another one i would not pay a retainer fee and recommend people not to do this either.
If the BA has been successful in the past it will not be rocket science for them to find the property you are after, sign an agreement with them that once property is found full payment will be made and purchase will only be made by using them only or sign a set time agreement to find property in that period of time or retainer fee to be refunded.
Most will tell you ''time is money'' we all know time is money and nobody should be working for free, but if you are good at your job and the client has signed an agreement with you that should be secure enough that he/she is not wasting your time.
One more thing, ask to see how much property they own and what the property has done since purchase after all.......all humans love/work for money if you are great at your job you don't need to wait for a call for a potential of 10k when you can rinse and repeat it yourself for tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars using the skills you have.
Exactly.
Telling. Okay, so you've been burnt.
If your complaint was so grievous did you take it to your relevant fair trading department?
So do you ask your GP their blood pressure when you see them?
Or whether they have any health issues?
I think there is one major thing missing from this discussion. Many BA's do promote themselves as 'property investment advisors' who can choose properties that outperform the average on growth.
I can think of 3 big names off the bat, but won't mention names as it seems it's not allowed (however we can mention insurance company names? Anyway!
Naturally nothing guarantees success or performance, however many BA's do create that expectation.
Also, I would expect a BA to do a basic level of DD for the fee we are paying. DD takes time, and the whole idea of using a BA is to save time.
The question is - how much DD should we expect a BA to do? Personally, when I read things like 'we take care of the whole process for you' I think that includes things like checking over the contract, at least an initial glance on Body Corp fees, any problems with the property that your Lawyer couldn't pick up on (i.e. like the undersized and unsuable carpark on title my BA sourced property had!).
For me using a BA was a big learning lesson. A lesson in specifying exactly up front exactly what services are expected up before committing - including time frames on delivering these. I also learned that I'm much more experienced than I thought and that I shouldn't be lazy.
I really like how Jacque's website clearly states all this, she is someone I would consider if I were to use one again.
I can think of 3 big names off the bat, but won't mention names as it seems it's not allowed (however we can mention insurance company names? Anyway!
Naturally nothing guarantees success or performance, however many BA's do create that expectation.
Also, I would expect a BA to do a basic level of DD for the fee we are paying. DD takes time, and the whole idea of using a BA is to save time.
The question is - how much DD should we expect a BA to do? Personally, when I read things like 'we take care of the whole process for you' I think that includes things like checking over the contract, at least an initial glance on Body Corp fees, any problems with the property that your Lawyer couldn't pick up on (i.e. like the undersized and unsuable carpark on title my BA sourced property had!).
For me using a BA was a big learning lesson. A lesson in specifying exactly up front exactly what services are expected up before committing - including time frames on delivering these. I also learned that I'm much more experienced than I thought and that I shouldn't be lazy.
I really like how Jacque's website clearly states all this, she is someone I would consider if I were to use one again.
Sim
Administrator
I think this is one of the key points ... not all Buyers Agents are as good as the others ... like any profession, you get good ones and bad ones.
In Jacque's case, you don't tend to win multiple REINSW awards and get voted in as the national president of REBAA without doing something right (which generally starts with a lot of hard work and happy clients!)
As with all things, the best cure for high prices is high prices. As is the best cure for low prices is low prices.
heres my 6c
Now i can see alot of hostilaty towards ba's here. Dont know why. They offer a service which is obviously utilised, and for a fee. No ones forced to use them so I dont see what the problem is. each to their own.
But I have bought property myself in several countries. And I have used a Ba to purchase property also. I can honestly tell you my ba purchased property has done alot better than purchasing myself. This could be because of
- My lack of knowledge and dd when purchasing
- My ba's outstanding knowledge and dd when purchasing
- The market
To me it doesnt matter as I will be making 10x + the fee back.
Could I or anyone else have done this themselves?
Ofcourse, So why did i use a ba then?
- I work away, so my time is more valuable to me to spend with my partner when i am home.
- My lack of confidence and knowledge
- I was overseas during settlement so needed that taken care of.
- Superior knowledge in the area of strategey i was looking for.
- He was using a similar strategey himself succesfully
- During my process My ba would have considered and narrowed down over 1000 properties for me. He would of inspected over 100 properties for me. He would have have put offers and negotiated on over 20 properties for me to get the right price and terms for me Before we finally settled on a right property that fits my strategy and goals.
Thats alot of hours of work put in, theres no way i would have been able to put that much work and effort in.
Did I check his work and do my DD on final property?
Ofcourse at the end of the day its my money and my responsability to ensure i am happy with the purchase and that it does in fact fit my goals.
Would I use a ba again?
I already have and this time sourced a property being sold by an out of area agent that wasnt aware of the higher zoning in the councils planning policy. Definatly a win win.
Would I use a ba on next purchase?
Depends on situation, But i will most likely be investing interstate and still be working away so it is definatly on the cards.
Would I reccomend using a ba?
Depends on your situation but it is worth considering.
hope this helps anyone thats considering to use one and enlightens all those anti ba's that there is in fact circimstances when ba's are definatly an asset to the proccess.
One size definatly does not fit all.
cheers
Now i can see alot of hostilaty towards ba's here. Dont know why. They offer a service which is obviously utilised, and for a fee. No ones forced to use them so I dont see what the problem is. each to their own.
But I have bought property myself in several countries. And I have used a Ba to purchase property also. I can honestly tell you my ba purchased property has done alot better than purchasing myself. This could be because of
- My lack of knowledge and dd when purchasing
- My ba's outstanding knowledge and dd when purchasing
- The market
To me it doesnt matter as I will be making 10x + the fee back.
Could I or anyone else have done this themselves?
Ofcourse, So why did i use a ba then?
- I work away, so my time is more valuable to me to spend with my partner when i am home.
- My lack of confidence and knowledge
- I was overseas during settlement so needed that taken care of.
- Superior knowledge in the area of strategey i was looking for.
- He was using a similar strategey himself succesfully
- During my process My ba would have considered and narrowed down over 1000 properties for me. He would of inspected over 100 properties for me. He would have have put offers and negotiated on over 20 properties for me to get the right price and terms for me Before we finally settled on a right property that fits my strategy and goals.
Thats alot of hours of work put in, theres no way i would have been able to put that much work and effort in.
Did I check his work and do my DD on final property?
Ofcourse at the end of the day its my money and my responsability to ensure i am happy with the purchase and that it does in fact fit my goals.
Would I use a ba again?
I already have and this time sourced a property being sold by an out of area agent that wasnt aware of the higher zoning in the councils planning policy. Definatly a win win.
Would I use a ba on next purchase?
Depends on situation, But i will most likely be investing interstate and still be working away so it is definatly on the cards.
Would I reccomend using a ba?
Depends on your situation but it is worth considering.
hope this helps anyone thats considering to use one and enlightens all those anti ba's that there is in fact circimstances when ba's are definatly an asset to the proccess.
One size definatly does not fit all.
cheers
I started my buying late in life. At 50 I owned my own home and one negatively geared investment property. I had just bought another when I discovered this forum and though that met Nathan.
I didn't have much confidence in my ability to move ahead but with Nathan's help bought a few under market places which we renoed to increase equity. From Nathan I gained confidence. He didn't just show me properties but gave me time and encouragement which was what I needed. He's an amazing young man. I bought a few with Nathan and also found a some myself.
So my reason for using a BA- lack of confidence. Am I happy with my purchases-you bet. I now have a CF+ decent portfolio with less than 50% LVR. I am going part time at work next year.
I didn't have much confidence in my ability to move ahead but with Nathan's help bought a few under market places which we renoed to increase equity. From Nathan I gained confidence. He didn't just show me properties but gave me time and encouragement which was what I needed. He's an amazing young man. I bought a few with Nathan and also found a some myself.
So my reason for using a BA- lack of confidence. Am I happy with my purchases-you bet. I now have a CF+ decent portfolio with less than 50% LVR. I am going part time at work next year.
Yes beachgurl,
About 50% of our property purchases (mostly around or under $350K) in W Sydney presently, have not been advertised or had a first Open.
