Carbon tax

[buzzlightyear]

Their forecasts have been proven wrong, wrong and wrong again yet you rely on it like it is gospel? Economics is the only profession where you can be always wrong and still be employed at the end of the day

The Treasury revenue estimates throughout the noughties continuously under Howard/Costello under cooked these.

How about the opportunity cost of not using these "bonus" funds more efficiently on areas such as infrastructure instead of middle class family tax benefits. It is one area that even the Australian Industry Group had been critical of the previous Lib/Nat government.

 

[our obsession]

.

OO - I know I posted a cartoon "regarding" the carbon tax - doesn't mean we now need to be swamped with "anti Abbott" cartoons that have nothing to do with carbon tax (the purpose of this thread).

Okay, sure, 2 x Tony Abbott cartoons 'swamping' (that really is okay, Nanna Dazz didn't much approve of it either)..the first cartoon I have deleted, that was the one about Tony Abbott 'Through The Ages'...thinking the wheel was silly, internal combustion engines will never get off the ground, inoculations just hocus pocus, clinate change 'crap' and carbon tax worthy of a people's revolution via Alan Jones's airways...

the second, which is now the 'first' cartoon:

Refers to Malcolm Turnbull's comments last week to press about the challenge he faces (as an ETS/carbon pricing supporter), juggling that in the liberal party, (ALONG with other rational minded party members!!)-led by Tony Abbott, whom, does not, (then does) believe in climate change, does, (then does not) want an ETS.

Here are his comments:

MALCOLM Turnbull has undermined Tony Abbott's attack on the government by again exposing opposition divisions over carbon policy.

The former opposition leader, whose fall was triggered by his support for the Rudd emissions trading scheme, again effectively distanced himself from the Abbott policy. He made it clear he was staying in line because he is in shadow cabinet and loyal, rather than agreeing with the policy.


Carbon had been a contentious area in the Coalition, but its ''current position'' was to oppose an emissions trading scheme or a carbon tax, Mr Turnbull told the ABC.

He said he had never backed a carbon tax, adding pointedly - in a veiled reference to Mr Abbott once saying a tax would be better than an ETS - that some of his colleagues had supported a tax at different times.

Pressed on whether he personally thought the government scheme had merit, Mr Turnbull said: ''The best thing that I can say is not to take a personal view and just simply say that the Coalition's policy is to be opposed to it. I'm part of the collective, I'm a member of the shadow cabinet''.

Mr Turnbull also highlighted Mr Abbott's shift on the issue. Mr Abbott had supported an emissions trading scheme and then ''changed his position and resigned from the shadow cabinet and challenged me for the leadership and was successful''.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/environmen...-carbon-tax-20110713-1he6f.html#ixzz1SKxgFA00

An explanation of the word 'duplictous', as used in the cartoon..

du·plic·i·tous (d -pl s -t s, dy -). adj. Given to or marked by deliberate deceptiveness in behavior or speech.

The cartoon is about the expressed (and on the record) differences b/w Abbott and Turnbull, over the ETS...resulting in the leadership switch, and which has now resurfaced last week, (by Malcolm).

We almost certainly will have the carbon pricing legislation, it more than likely will become an ETS. Tony Abbott, (thankyou universe) was not made Prime Minster. Get over it.


Apart from 'some' very interesting information (you guys know who you are) and some relevant, robust debate...in this thread, "Some" operative word...there has been numerous ridiculous and irrelevant political bagging, the sheeple disciples of Tony Abbott are whiney, squawky, repetitive, disgruntled and bitter about TA not being voted in as PM, as is TA himself. Bingo!

Next!

 

[Belbo]

Apart from 'some' very interesting information (you guys know who you are) and some relevant, robust debate...in this thread, "Some" operative word...there has been numerous ridiculous and irrelevant political bagging, the sheeple disciples of Tony Abbott are whiney, squawky, repetitive, disgruntled and bitter about TA not being voted in as PM, as is TA himself. Bingo!

Next!

I think you left out 'carbonated'.

 

[our obsession]

Fizzy, fizzy fizzy....

 

[lizzie]

Also, Labor implemented a stimulus that has proven we are the only western nation to avoid a technical recession. That in itself will ensure we on a great footing going forward. We cant say what would have happened if the Liberals were in power during the GFC.

at the end of which there is very little to show for it asides from a swag of overpriced school canteens, a few fried pinkbatt installers and a pile of 3 year old plasmas ... oh ... and a whooping great debt.

OO - good on Turnbull for sticking to his principles, in a forumla that is good for the welfare of the country as a whole and will actually bring about change (unlike the current proposal). That's probably why I admire him as preferred PM.

 

[chris_qld]

The biggest scam in human history

Global warming is caused by human activities? It's the biggest scam in human history.

The earth came out of the Ice Age far before the Industrial revolution. How did the ice, which covered most of the continents, disappear over time?

Increasing earthquakes are not caused by human activities; and increasing volcano activities (including those under the sea level) are not caused by human activities. These natural disasters release enormous amount of energy and enormous amount of dust into the sky.

We also should not forget the influence of the sun and moon. Slightly shortening of the distance between the earth and sun or increasing solar activities will increase temperature on the earth. The cause of the global temperature change is multifactorial. It's too naive to conclude that reduction of petrol and coal consumption will reverse global warming.

Gillard is still saying Australia needs carbon tax to combat drought. She ignores the fact that Australia had come out of drought a year ago. She has no idea that we are heading towards "global cooling" period. Most of us have experienced freezing cold nights and mornings in the past few weeks due to record low temperature. This is simply a natural cycle.

I have no doubts that we need to save limited natural resources and we do need to look for renewable energy. This is a completely different issue.

 

[BayView]

Andrew Bolt today:

He finally got an aswer to his question on exactly how much of a reduction in the World's temps if the CT is introduced, and they take a measurement in 2020...........

1/4000 of a degree.

Thank god for that...I feel safer now.

Now, can we get a dollar measurement on the hurt to our pockets, and the economy as a whole by that time?

 

[myoung]

Andrew Bolt today:

He finally got an aswer to his question on exactly how much of a reduction in the World's temps if the CT is introduced, and they take a measurement in 2020...........

1/4000 of a degree.

Thank god for that...I feel safer now.

Now, can we get a dollar measurement on the hurt to our pockets, and the economy as a whole by that time?

Tomorrow's forecast is for light showers with a maximum of 14.5673432C after the recent heatwave of 14.5679999 yesterday.

 

[Dan_p]

Global warming is caused by human activities? It's the biggest scam in human history.

The earth came out of the Ice Age far before the Industrial revolution. How did the ice, which covered most of the continents, disappear over time?

Increasing earthquakes are not caused by human activities; and increasing volcano activities (including those under the sea level) are not caused by human activities. These natural disasters release enormous amount of energy and enormous amount of dust into the sky.

We also should not forget the influence of the sun and moon. Slightly shortening of the distance between the earth and sun or increasing solar activities will increase temperature on the earth. The cause of the global temperature change is multifactorial. It's too naive to conclude that reduction of petrol and coal consumption will reverse global warming.

Gillard is still saying Australia needs carbon tax to combat drought. She ignores the fact that Australia had come out of drought a year ago. She has no idea that we are heading towards "global cooling" period. Most of us have experienced freezing cold nights and mornings in the past few weeks due to record low temperature. This is simply a natural cycle.

I have no doubts that we need to save limited natural resources and we do need to look for renewable energy. This is a completely different issue.

Well Done.

Some common sense.

Can't everyone else see this.

I think most of the labor supporters can only see their big fat carbon compensation and think, well I am doing a good thing for the environment.

 

[Aaron_C]

Well Done.

Some common sense.

Can't everyone else see this.

I think most of the labor supporters can only see their big fat carbon compensation and think, well I am doing a good thing for the environment.

And if you disagree you are considered liberal party zealot/zombie

Ironically it is the greenies whose brains are the ones being eaten by Juliar

 

[buzzlightyear]

For those who do not believe in human caused climate change let me ask you this. When you have an electrical issue with one of your properties and you get quotes and opinions of 10 electricians and 9 tell you the same story and 1 tells you another do you believe the one or the nine?

 

[Aaron_C]

For those who do not believe in human caused climate change let me ask you this. When you have an electrical issue with one of your properties and you get quotes and opinions of 10 electricians and 9 tell you the same story and 1 tells you another do you believe the one or the nine?

The issue is not about climate change. The question/debate is what to do about it. Capitulating to minority interests who are not accountable for their decisions is not the answer.

 

[NedKelly]

For those who do not believe in human caused climate change let me ask you this. When you have an electrical issue with one of your properties and you get quotes and opinions of 10 electricians and 9 tell you the same story and 1 tells you another do you believe the one or the nine?

I believe the one I can trust, that doesn't have a vested interest in getting a easy job or easy cash. I also trust my judgment that if the water heater is cold it isn't necessarily due to an inbuilt thermostat and the best way to fix it is with a complete new solar water heater system when it might well be the circuit breaker.

 

[StefanA]

1/4000 of a degree.

Thank god for that...I feel safer now.

Now, can we get a dollar measurement on the hurt to our pockets, and the economy as a whole by that time?

yeah but......this is only the.......BEGINNING....

Neo Marxists realize it is better not to exterminate capitalists, but to enslaven them. They let the capitalists go about their business, then bleed them a bit each day, hopefully just enough not to kill them. That way, Marxists carry zero risk, and get a risk adjusted reward second to none.

Now if only Marxists applied their moral superiority, intellect, and the energy fed into their downright sneakiness, to actually producing something of value, rather then bleeding others, they might actually make the world a better place.

 

[chris_qld]

For those who do not believe in human caused climate change let me ask you this. When you have an electrical issue with one of your properties and you get quotes and opinions of 10 electricians and 9 tell you the same story and 1 tells you another do you believe the one or the nine?

Before the birth of Galileo, our ancestors believed that the earth was the centre of the universe and the sun was moving around the earth. Our ancestors also believed that the earth was a square. Were they right or wrong?

If you have watched "Who wants to be a millionaire" show, you should have noticed that the answers provided by the majority of the audience can be incorrect.

The commonsense is that weather is not influenced by one single factor. There are many other factors, which are possibly more crucial then CO2, that can contribute to the weather changes. It's naive to conclude that CO2 is the only and the most important factor that causes the hot weather in the past few years. Again, we have had record low temperature in the past few weeks, I don't think the low temperature is caused by significant reduction of CO2 because Gillard's carbon tax hasn't started yet. yes, I'm saying, without reduction of CO2, temperature can become cooler by itself due to natural cycle. I would be more than happy to admit my view is wrong if anyone can show me the evidence that the recent low temperature is caused by low CO2.

 

[BayView]

For those who do not believe in human caused climate change let me ask you this. When you have an electrical issue with one of your properties and you get quotes and opinions of 10 electricians and 9 tell you the same story and 1 tells you another do you believe the one or the nine?

http://weather.yahoo.com.au/local-climate-history/vic/melbourne

Note the hottest July year.

Considering the world has had a 50% increase in population since then.......

http://www.scottmanning.com/content/year-by-year-world-population-estimates/

You would think that temps would have risen since 1975 based on popular beliefs that we are the cause.

 

[shiftyphil]

http://weather.yahoo.com.au/local-climate-history/vic/melbourne

Note the hottest July year.

Considering the world has had a 50% increase in population since then.......

One freak year does not invalidate a trend.

 

[our obsession]

yeah but......this is only the.......BEGINNING....

Neo Marxists realize it is better not to exterminate capitalists, but to enslaven them. They let the capitalists go about their business, then bleed them a bit each day, hopefully just enough not to kill them. That way, Marxists carry zero risk, and get a risk adjusted reward second to none.

Now if only Marxists applied their moral superiority, intellect, and the energy fed into their downright sneakiness, to actually producing something of value, rather then bleeding others, they might actually make the world a better place.

Just felt like quoting StefanA.



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....and I would suggest for quite a considerable number of people, 'carbon pricing' is an issue for them because they choose to think climate change is a load of 'crap'. So, in fact it is intertwined with people's perceptions and beliefs.

And we haven't even started on the evil Greenies, the Marxists, half cocked Socialists and Red's yet..

All hail Lord Monckton and his disciples Alan ('Public Toilets') Jonesy and Andy (Is he in jail yet?) Bolty. We KNOW they have the 'Truth'!!!

 

[dan c]

If you have watched "Who wants to be a millionaire" show, you should have noticed that the answers provided by the majority of the audience can be incorrect.

Just to check. Are you comparing trained scientists, experts in their field to the people in the audience of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?

 

[our obsession]

And if you disagree you are considered liberal party zealot/zombie

Ironically it is the greenies whose brains are the ones being eaten by Juliar

I can only speak for myself on this as a labor voter.

If a person does not agree with me, I am usually fine with that. You seem like a very nice person.

It's only human stupidity I think is the problem.

Hope that clarifies.