Carbon tax

[lizzie]

Mate, what are you on about? Lizzie made reference to Gillard lying 'often' and i asked her definition of 'often' and examples?

without wasting to much time that can be better spent:

Promised $300 million for dental care...lie
Promised 36 Super Clinics...lie
Promised Federal Hospital Takeover...lie
Promised NBN to cost $4 BILLION, now to cost $40+ Billion...lie
Promised to keep fuel and grocery prices down...lie
Promised to build 260 childcare centres on school grounds…lie
Promised to be "economic conservatives' before immediately becoming the highest-spending government in Australia's history...lie
Promised to take Japan to the international courts to stop whaling...lie
Promised to keep the Medicare Rebate at 30%...lie
Promised to lift the ‘cruel' limitations on Medicare rebates for IVF treatments, instead Labor places caps on all IVF treatments, all obstetric services, and ultrasounds...lie
Promised to spend $672 million to indigenous housing in the Northern Territory...lie
Promised to hold a referendum on fixed four year terms for federal parliament...lie
Promised there will be no Carbon tax in a Gillard Labor government…lie
Promised support of Kevin as PM - lie

Wasted billions of public money on school halls and pink batts

To name just a few reason why the public doesn't trust her.

And - probably the biggest lie - that she is PM of the country when we all know that Bob Brown secretly is ...

 

[Aaron Sice]

http://globaia.org/en/anthropocene/

kind of on topic, but not, but is....

for some of you interested in some amazing photography and cartography photos of mans impact on the planet.

don't delve into the science on this link too much - there really isn't any - but the photos are JUST incredible.

for sharing, cheers.

 

[evand]

What? Just because these things havn't happened yet doesn't mean they are lies.
She hasn't said she isn't doing them.

She recently was 1 year in power. That would be a big ask of even Julia.

without wasting to much time that can be better spent:

Promised $300 million for dental care...lie
Promised 36 Super Clinics...lie
Promised Federal Hospital Takeover...lie
Promised NBN to cost $4 BILLION, now to cost $40+ Billion...lie
Promised to keep fuel and grocery prices down...lie
Promised to build 260 childcare centres on school grounds…lie
Promised to be "economic conservatives' before immediately becoming the highest-spending government in Australia's history...lie
Promised to take Japan to the international courts to stop whaling...lie
Promised to keep the Medicare Rebate at 30%...lie
Promised to lift the ‘cruel' limitations on Medicare rebates for IVF treatments, instead Labor places caps on all IVF treatments, all obstetric services, and ultrasounds...lie
Promised to spend $672 million to indigenous housing in the Northern Territory...lie
Promised to hold a referendum on fixed four year terms for federal parliament...lie
Promised there will be no Carbon tax in a Gillard Labor government…lie
Promised support of Kevin as PM - lie

Wasted billions of public money on school halls and pink batts

To name just a few reason why the public doesn't trust her.

And - probably the biggest lie - that she is PM of the country when we all know that Bob Brown secretly is ...

 

[lizzie]

Including the last two - I count 10 lies on that list ... the rest we shall wait and see, but there is no evidence of any action taken towards fullfilling the remaining.

p.s. regards the Tony bashing. Okay, we get the point. The discussion here is about the carbon tax and current government in power, not what an opposition leader with no real power (beyond words) is doing.

Actually - this will probably get me completely howled down and banned from the forum ... in regards to overpopulation ... was watching the news last night about the northern/central African humanitarian camps that people have been living in up to a decade on handouts.

Surely it would make sense to somehow prevent these people living in the camps from bringing more babies into such an impoverised existance that obviously can't support them.

I know it's a horrible thing to say, and yes I do have several sponsor children in that area (not in the camps) but some areas of Africa seem to be in constant drought - right back to the 70's that I can remember - areas that can't support the population living on it and hence would have been "culled" by natural means ... by upsetting the balance of nature we are only increasing the problem of overpopulation and poverty in these areas.

Yes - we can take more refugees in, but that won't solve the problem at the source and the overpopulation of the planet as a whole.

David Attenborough's "how many people can planet earth support" is a fantastic documentry to open one's eyes as to why the situation currently exists.

 

[Aaron Sice]

She recently was 1 year in power. That would be a big ask of even Julia.

maybe if she spent less time and effort convincing people about bringing in a tax she promised not to, she might be able to cross some things off her list.

 

[shiftyphil]

p.s. regards the Tony bashing. Okay, we get the point. The discussion here is about the carbon tax and current government in power, not what an opposition leader with no real power (beyond words) is doing.

He has plenty of power - he controls not just his own vote in the HOR, but (directly) 71 others, plus 34 senate seats. He can choose to use them wisely to amend or even propose legislation.

He can continue to pretend he is impotent, but he has substantially more power than Bob Brown.

 

[gooram]

Surely it would make sense to somehow prevent these people living in the camps from bringing more babies into such an impoverised existance that obviously can't support them.

I know it's a horrible thing to say, and yes I do have several sponsor children in that area (not in the camps) but some areas of Africa seem to be in constant drought - right back to the 70's that I can remember - areas that can't support the population living on it and hence would have been "culled" by natural means ... by upsetting the balance of nature we are only increasing the problem of overpopulation and poverty in these areas.

It's a completely rational thing to say. In fact I think we should be doing it in Australia as well, for tony abbot supporters No seriously, for those people that are ill-equipped (for various) reasons to raise a child responsibly.

Maybe everyone gets microchipped at birth, then only after you get your child-rearing license, does the chip get removed.

Regardless, it's not relevant to this debate.

 

[lizzie]

Regardless, it's not relevant to this debate.

I agree, it's not - was just a thought along the lines of human overpopulation causing climate change (apparently) and the continual increase of this population.

 

[Marti]

Carbon and House Prices

Looked at this blog today re carbon tax and falling house prices. http://www.myprop.com.au/content/carbon-tax-and-falling-house-prices

 

[eKwatee]

That doesn't quite cut it. I dont think shes lying there, except for the last one, which this thread is about.

But what do you expect from an anti CT/Gillard web site. Do you have any impartial sources of her 'lying often'?

Heres another one for Julia Gillard just from yesterday, they just keep comin

Julia Gillard

Iv'e stood under one of these wind turbines and there remarkably quiet

See Audio here

Ray Hadley

Maybe it wasn't working at the time

 

[Aaron_C]

So where are we going to build these massive wind turbines? On the $5m Portsea houses?

 

[myoung]

You cant be serious, those guys are rabid. A govt agency (ABC) could not be that biased. Even in Labor opposition.

there were a couple of posts earlier in thsi thread from Alan Jones in Sydney where he is feral against Gillar and the CT.

Also, he is under investigation for misleading statements on Climate Chnage and the CT.

Do you think you'd read or hear this stuff on any of the media outlets you mention, i dont think so: If so, can you give me a few examples. Thanks.

What about this brain-dead Sarah Hanson-Young, from the Greens?


— 2GB, The Alan Jones Breakfast Show, 6th July, 2011


On Clover Moore:

Quote:
Clover Moore is the Lord Mayor of Sydney. And Alan Jones would like to...



Alan Jones: Put her in the same chaff bag as Julia Gillard and throw them both out to sea.


— 2GB, The Alan Jones Breakfast Show, 29th June, 2011

Quote:
Alan Jones: ... that fool Windsor wanted broadband, that idiot Wilkie in Tasmania wanted poker machine reform ...


— 2GB, The Alan Jones Breakfast Show, 12th July, 2011




... they've struck a tax which is half of what that fool Garnaut said it should be ...


— 2GB, The Alan Jones Breakfast Show, 11th July, 2011


Th guy is incapable of expressing a point without name calling and abusing people. He claims he never 'gets personal':

Quote:
'Tony': The Australian taxpayer even pays for the toilet paper she uses.
Does she go down to the chemist to buy her tampons? Or is the Australian taxpayer paying for those as well? ...
In my opinion Julia Gillard is a piece of crap ...

Alan Jones: Ok, well you made a lot of valid points there. We've just got to avoid in our criticism the personal. We stick to the policy; we never deal with the personal.


— 2GB, The Alan Jones Breakfast Show, 28th February, 2011

The comments he likes people to send in:

Quote:
Breakfast host Alan Jones likes to air his listeners' factual opinions about Julia Gillard too. Like this email from 'Colin'...



Alan Jones: Another one says "please, please don't have that lying ***** on your program again, I had to move the dial to another station. I guess it was worth the once to show us all what a beep lying, beep backstabbing, beep treacherous, beep beep she is."
Thanks Colin.


— 2GB, The Alan Jones Breakfast Show, 28th February, 2011

I'm entirely serious.

Try listening to the ABC radio and consider how it sounds if you supported the other side of politics.

As oppossed to phoney Tony/Juliar and all the other crap flowing both ways. Simply name calling and emotional frustration from either side that doesnt add to any argument other than they cant remain calm enough to have a reasoned debate. Kind of like football sledging both sides do it in droves, it only seems to offend you when the side you dont like does it.

Rabidness does not solely equal bias, Fairfax media simply puts a left/green slant on everything it writes and ignores negative press or questioning anything inline with that agenda at the same time, their just more deceitful/subtle(depending on your slant) in their bias.

 

[topcropper]

Regardless, it's not relevant to this debate.

I agree, it's not - was just a thought along the lines of human overpopulation causing climate change (apparently) and the continual increase of this population.

It's perfectly relevant.

Kevin Rudd was ranting and raving about carbon emissions a few years ago, and at the same time ramping up immigration into this country to never before seen levels. We even had dodgy education systems whos main purpose was to let ever more students in and to stay. We had population growth above plenty of backward developing nations. It was embarrasing. At least it's been reduced back to more normal levels now.

Anyone would know that not everyone in the world can live the way we do. And anyone would also know that as soon as someone moves here from a third world country, that their carbon emissions increase by multiples of 10 times or more. By limiting Australias population growth, it would be the best thing you could do to limit CO2.


See ya's.

 

[StefanA]

Actually Topcropper, you just reminded me of another Labor crisis driven reactive policy. So since Labor took office, we have had:

- the Mother of All Depressions GFC CRISIS
- the global asylum seeker and evil people smuggler CRISIS
- the falling behind global fast broadband CRISIS
- the world is going to end Climate Change CRISIS
- And now, the Privacy Laws CRISIS.

And these CRISES require higher taxes, IMMEDIATELY, or else the wheels are going to fall off the economy and civilization, as we know it.

Personally, I think GreenLabor have played the CRISIS card n+5 times too many, to the extent the electorate has CRISIS FATIGUE.

And still, real issues more likely to become crises, like water and food security, and the global financial outlook, get ignored because Labor doesn't understand them.

 

[lizzie]

damn Stefan - last two times I've tried to kudo you, I've been told I have to spread myself around more!

Excellent points from a different view for this thread

 

[gooram]

It's perfectly relevant.

Kevin Rudd was ranting and raving about carbon emissions a few years ago, and at the same time ramping up immigration into this country to never before seen levels. We even had dodgy education systems whos main purpose was to let ever more students in and to stay. We had population growth above plenty of backward developing nations. It was embarrasing. At least it's been reduced back to more normal levels now.

Anyone would know that not everyone in the world can live the way we do. And anyone would also know that as soon as someone moves here from a third world country, that their carbon emissions increase by multiples of 10 times or more. By limiting Australias population growth, it would be the best thing you could do to limit CO2.

See ya's.

So, we should stop skilled migrant and refugee intakes so we can keep polluting at one of the highest rates per capita in the world? Is that your argument?

 

[our obsession]

There was an interesting study done on Political Media Slant, circa 2009.

How Partisan is the Press? Multiple Measures of Media Slant*
by Joshua S. Gans, (Melbourne Business School, University of Melbourne)

Andrew Leigh (Economics Program Research School of Social Sciences Australian National University)

Small excerpt only, see down further for link to the study research:

We employ several different approaches to estimate the political position of Australian media outlets, relative to federal parliamentarians. First, we use parliamentary mentions to codeover 100 public intellectuals on a left-right scale.

We then estimate slant by using the numberof mentions that each public intellectual receives in each media outlet.

Second, we have independent raters separately code front-page election stories and headlines. Third, we tabulate the number of electoral endorsements that newspapers give to each side of politics in federal elections....

A part overall finding Australian media are quite centrist, .... To the extent that we can separate content slant from editorial slant, we find some evidence that editors aremore partisan than journalists..

Content articles, generally centrist, but:

However, when we look at editorial stances, more dispersion is apparent. Although headline-coding only reveals one newspaper that is significantly slanted, the pattern of editorial election endorsements is strongly skewed, with 36 out of 44 endorsements favoring the Coalition in the period 1996-2007.

Consistent with this, we also observe substantial differences in political donations by media proprietors towards political parties, with donation ratios as high as 3:1 in favor of the Coalition...

The research link here, and again, best read in full context:

How Partisan Is The Press? Multiple Measures of Media Slant..




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[our obsession]

It came around the time Peter Costello was complaining about the ABC:

Study finds ABC bias leans towards Coalition

Ari Sharp
September 3, 2009.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/s...ds-coalition-20090902-f8gm.html#ixzz1SjGp0OeQ

Excerpt Only:

PETER Costello believes the ABC is ''hostile territory'' for conservatives, but a study has found its television news leans towards the Coalition.

Economists Joshua Gans and Andrew Leigh made the finding in a research paper, How Partisan is the Press?, that also said that on another measure of bias The Age slants towards Labor.

The study of media from 1999 to 2007 found that television and talkback radio were most likely to lean to the right, while newspapers slant left. Overall, the media showed a slight inclination to the right....

The study then checked every reference to those public figures across 27 news services to calculate the media's slant. While for most outlets the statistical standard error made bias difficult to detect, ABC television news was significantly slanted towards the Coalition.

The finding challenges a claim made by Mr Costello, who, writing in The Age, last week called for more conservative voices on the ABC, claiming that everyone on the conservative side of politics believes ''the ABC is hostile territory''.

An ABC-backed inquiry last year into bias in the public broadcaster assessed a sample of TV news stories as impartial.

It also goes on with a bit of comparison to partisan coverage in the USA, also interesting.

 

[topcropper]

So, we should stop skilled migrant and refugee intakes so we can keep polluting at one of the highest rates per capita in the world? Is that your argument?

I didn't say to stop immigration. It was just ridiculous for Rudd to be ranting on about CO2, and then ramp up our immigration intake at the same time. I'm happy now that it's decreased back to sensible levels of intake.


See ya's.

 

[StefanA]

So, we should stop skilled migrant and refugee intakes so we can keep polluting at one of the highest rates per capita in the world? Is that your argument?

Do you think refugees and skilled migrants give a toss about Australia's per capita pollution? If they did, why are they leaving low per capita polluting countries and coming here? And conversely, why aren't GreenLabor supporters emigrating to third world nations with lower emissions? If I was hysterically green, the moral dilemma of living in the worst per capita polluting neck of the woods in the world, with a culture of V8 utes, high meat consumption, and ducted air con McMansions would have me in a moral spin.

GreenLabor should do some more research into how migrants, especially the ones that work (in the private sector), like being taxed more for the privilege of lowering Australia's carbon emissions.