Carbon tax

[josko]

bugger that then - I'll just sign up for the 4G wireless network that Telstra is bringing out next year. A market in which they forecast 40% of their client base will switch to.

I'm currently paying $70/mth for top of the line unlimited ... and that is expensive enough as it is!

Yep, agree guys.

$70 is great! Who's that with?

I'm on $99, including rental and including all land line national and mobile. Optus.

Aaron, It's all part of the "moving forward for the working families of Australia.." LOL

Regards JO

 

[Aaron_C]

TPG would be the cheapest unlimited ISP hands-down.

 

[shiftyphil]

TPG would be the cheapest unlimited ISP hands-down.

You couldn't pay me to go back to them.

 

[Aaron_C]

You couldn't pay me to go back to them.

I've never had a big problem with them and I've been with them for about 2 years. Although lots of people have said bad things about em

 

[our obsession]

More importantly, GO Malcolm Turnbull!!!!!!!

 

[StefanA]

If NBN price structure will be similar to today's, and faster speeds will be more expensive, then why does Conroy think broadband uptake will be higher under NBN, than it is today?

As of December 2010, only 899,000 of 10,446,000 subscribers (8.6%) chose faster broadband (>=24Mbps). Of course, some of us who live futher from exchanges may not get faster speeds unless we buy more expensive commercial connectivity. However it is fair to presume price limits what broadband subscription most of us take up.

Only a politic that rests its conscience by spending other people's money could think 899,000 subscribers warrants the $43B NBN.

 

[our obsession]

Been a further interesting 24 hours, on top of 24 months..

From Canberra Times:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/turnbull-denies-being-at-odds-with-abbott/2235171.aspx?src=rss

22 Jul, 2011 01:16 PM

Former Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull says an impassioned speech he gave last night defending the role of science in the climate change debate and calling for fellow Liberals to defend scientists was not an attempt to undermine his replacement.

He also used the speech to attack opponents of action on climate change, saying many were doing so to protect their financial interests...

Coupla excerpts:

Mr Turnbull, who lost the Liberal leadership to Tony Abbott largely over his stance in support of an emissions trading scheme, said today that he had been making the point that his party's - and therefore Mr Abbott's - policy was to support the science of climate change.


''And indeed our policy is not simply to support the science but to cut our emissions by 2020 to a level equal to 5 per cent less than what they were in 2000, which is exactly the same target as the government,'' he told the ABC.


When asked if he was at odds with Mr Abbott, Mr Turnbull said, ''I'm not going to make an admission of that kind because I can only rely on what is our stated policy, and our stated policy is to cut our emissions by that five per cent mark. That is our policy.''

In the speech, Mr Turnbull said Australians normally relied on and respected the views of agencies like the CSIRO or the Australian Academy of Science when it came to issues of science.


''Yet on this issue [global warming] there appears to be a licence to reject our best scientists, both here and abroad, and rely instead on much less reliable views. Some of those less reliable views are from scientists - although most are not,'' he said.


''In an age where the internet gives everyone the opportunity to be a broadcaster, you can find an opinion to support any proposition. If it doesn’t suit your interests to reduce the use of fossil fuels, there are plenty of blogs and articles online to support your self interest.''


He said former British Conservative prime minister Margaret Thatcher took climate change seriously, so taking action to protect the environment could ''hardly be the mark of insipient Bolshevism''.

''It is important to remember however that the rejection of the consensus scientific position on global warming, rejection of the CSIRO’s position on global warming, is not Liberal Party policy,'' he said.

........Although a 5 per cent cut would not single-handedly stop global warming, it was a ''measured and prudent contribution to what needs to be global effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions''.

''Having said that, it is undoubtedly correct that there has been a very effective campaign against the science of climate change by those opposed to taking action to cut emissions - many because it is not within their own financial interests - and that this has played into the carbon tax debate,'' he said.

He compared the situation to someone ignoring the advice of a doctor to quit smoking and lose weight, because ''somebody down the pub told you their uncle Ernie ate three pies a day and smoked a packet of cigarettes and lived to 95''.

''Now that is how stupid it is and we have to get real about supporting and responsibly accepting the science. And if we want to challenge the science, do so on the basis of peer reviewed work of which I have to say, there isn’t a lot on the contrary side of the argument,'' he said.....(see article)

Fascinating times, a beautiful symmetry indeed IV.

 

[our obsession]

Politics just got even more interesting....

 

[Dazz]

Politics just got even more interesting....

It's always interesting.

It was especially fascinating when your beloved Malcolm Turnbull tried to take the Liberal party down a path the majority didn't want to go down. Fortunately, someone with some balls stood up and said something....and like in every democracy when there is conflict, it is resolved with a vote.....not 708 posts of dribble that concludes with a nothingness.

The vote was taken and poor ol' Malcolm was turfed out on his ear because of his views. That was intra-party, and he hasn't quite come to grips with the fact the majority of the party do not support his views.

Come the next election, it's pretty clear, his view, along with the Labor & Greens view will also be turfed out on their ear.

This mindless debate is pointless unless the debate ends in a vote. It never does in internet land, and hence why the mindless sledging continues.

Bring on a vote, so we can clear up once and for all what the majority's opinion really is.....rather than people saying "this is what the majority want" and **** like "this is good for the nation and the right thing to do" when they have absolutely no mandate to speak from.

She's currently 72 a piece. No-one has a mandate to do anything.

 

[our obsession]

Why yes, I am interested how the divisiveness plays out.

Dazz:

The vote was taken and poor ol' Malcolm was turfed out on his ear because of his views. That was intra-party, and he hasn't quite come to grips with the fact the majority of the party do not support his views.

Come the next election, it's pretty clear, his view, along with the Labor & Greens view will also be turfed out on their ear.

This mindless debate is pointless unless the debate ends in a vote..

Ah, yes, that decisive party vote..Malcolm Turnbull's 41, to Tony Abbott's 42. Boy that sorted out the crew huh. Almost had to call the Independents in on that one!


Turnbull Makes Sense on Climate ...

Excerpt only:

Turnbull Makes Sense On Climate

By Ben Eltham


Malcolm Turnbull's sensible, moderate speech on climate change last night was important. For starters, his defence of science exposed Abbott's shoddy distortion of the debate, writes Ben Eltham..

You’ve got to hand it to Malcolm Turnbull. He might boast an ego the equal of anyone in federal politics — surely an accomplishment in itself — but he is never less than eloquent when it comes to expressing his own opinions.

No-one on the conservative side of politics has yet been able to describe the issue of climate change as succinctly as Turnbull did last night, when delivering the inaugural Virginia Chadwick Foundation speech, in memory of the state Liberal minister of the same name.

"The question of whether or to what extent human activities are causing global warming is not a matter of ideology, let alone of belief," he said. "The issue is simply one of risk management."---> see article

 

[our obsession]

Interesting report here too, from Monday, just asking a question or two about media's role:

Carbon price won't stop the spin

(Stephen Long reported this story on Monday, July 18, 2011)

MARK COLVIN: Tony Abbott has played down the contributions of economists and climate scientists to such an extent that some are worried that evidence will take a back seat in the carbon price debate.

Economics correspondent Stephen Long looks at some of the claims against the economic evidence.

STEPHEN LONG: The line has been constant and unwavering.

TONY ABBOTT (montage of sound bites): This carbon tax will have a very big impact.

Jobs that will be damaged or destroyed by Labor's carbon tax.

That's why this carbon tax is going to be so toxic.

Labor's toxic carbon tax.

Don't proceed with this toxic tax.

No to this toxic tax.

STEPHEN LONG: It's the first rule of propaganda - confine the message to a few simple points and repeat them over and over. And Tony Abbott is a master.

On the carbon price he's cutting through while the Government struggles to sell the policy.

Full credit to the Opposition Leader's political skill. But he's been aided and abetted by journalists who've continued to report unchallenged claims that appear to contradict facts.

---------------------------->from:

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3272060.htm

STEPHEN LONG: The Food and Grocery Council has promoted a claim that food prices will rise by up to 5 per cent as a result of a carbon price - many multiples of the Treasury estimate of less than half a per cent.

After the carbon pricing announcement, the Council's boss Kate Carnell poured scorn on the Government's estimates.

KATE CARNELL: The increased costs on farms, increased transport costs, increased packaging costs, increased factory costs. The list goes on and we would have trouble believing the Government figures.

STEPHEN LONG: But you might have trouble believing the Grocery Council's figure if you knew that it had refused to publish the research on which it was based or explain the methodology.

That suggests it's propaganda - spin. Yet it hasn't stopped the media from repeating the claim time and time again.

Kinda so stupid it's almost funny.

 

[our obsession]

no one will pay - they'll all go wireless.

people aren't stupid - indeed everyone questions the landline rental and 30% of the population (last count?) are already land-line-less.

Nonsense. Why? Attempting to build a wireless network that would be a 'viable substitute' for fixed line ADSL would mean a need to put a wireless base station at the end of every street.

Ignorance is alarming on this, ( as much as the carbon pricing). You are welcome to an opinion, they are like rectums, everyone has one... viable alternatives need somekind of rational manner presentation-->would be more welcome.

 

[buzzlightyear]

More importantly, GO Malcolm Turnbull!!!!!!!

OO, this made me chuckle. Reminds me of the number of ABC radio listeners (John Faine 774) who each time Malcolm speaks, text/email in saying they are Labor / Green voters but would vote for him. Yeh right This morning's session on 774 (Melbourne's ABC for those interstate) was another one of these.

I guess if you believe that Abbott's opposition to the carbon tax is simply a front to cover the fact that he does not believe in human caused climate change, then Turnbulls comments can be taken as a subtle attempt to position himself as a different possible leader to Abbott.

However Lib climate change policy has the exact same aspirational target of 5% cut in our emissions by 2020. This is the same as the ALP policy. The issue at least at a high level is the means to get there.

As for future leadership aspirations from Turnbull, he has already burnt many bridges (and keeps doing so) within his own party. This positioning is as much about his external perception. The last leader to worry more about his external view at the expense of his own party and support was Kevin Rudd.

As for divisiveness, Bruce Hawker (Hawker Britton - ALP political party strategists) constantly spruiked when Abbott took leadership in 2009 that he would be the Oppositions greatest weakness. He has been anything but, whatever you believe in his actual politics. And the ALP's ability to exploit any difference (as there surely is) in opinion between Turnbull and Abbott on climate change has failed miserably to date. Given the current governments inability to sell, communicate many of their 'big issues', I would argue there is a very high likelihood that they will be unable to exploit this.

There is another 'big issue' that Malcolm has tied himself to that was a no-go. This was the Republic. He is a very smart and capable businessman, lawyer but as a politician, he has at least up until now, failed. But then again, that would have been the perception of many about Howard in the late 80's and early 90's.

 

[eKwatee]

Nonsense. Why? Attempting to build a wireless network that would be a 'viable substitute' for fixed line ADSL would mean a need to put a wireless base station at the end of every street.

I'm with a wireless provider (I'm on a 12mbps plan) & they have 1 base station for 3 suburbs, my suburb alone has approximately 4000 homes.

 

[our obsession]

Good read Buzz, thanks.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Bring on a vote, so we can clear up once and for all what the majority's opinion really is.....rather than people saying "this is what the majority want" and **** like "this is good for the nation and the right thing to do" when they have absolutely no mandate to speak from.

She's currently 72 a piece. No-one has a mandate to do anything.

One of the major unspoken factors I believe that is contributing to the current economic malaise that we are in, is the uncertainty around government policies and the influence of the Greens.

You won't hear that in the cafe's / bars in Fitzroy or Balmain, but the lack of perceived legitimacy that Gillard has does impact on the public's view of her and her government. From the way she became leader and the fact that she is relying on MP's who come from a conservative background in the lower house, whilst being in a proxy-Coalition with the Greens in the Senate. It may work in Germany and other European nations but Australia isn't used to this at a Federal level at least. The Labor-Greens coalition is Tassy isn't going that well either before someone says, look we have a functioning state minority government.

Personally, its either Blue or Red, not shades of grey that we have now.

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

One of the major unspoken factors I believe that is contributing to the current economic malaise that we are in, is the uncertainty around government policies and the influence of the Greens.

You won't hear that in the cafe's / bars in Fitzroy or Balmain, but the lack of perceived legitimacy that Gillard has does impact on the public's view of her and her government. From the way she became leader and the fact that she is relying on MP's who come from a conservative background in the lower house, whilst being in a proxy-Coalition with the Greens in the Senate. It may work in Germany and other European nations but Australia isn't used to this at a Federal level at least. The Labor-Greens coalition is Tassy isn't going that well either before someone says, look we have a functioning state minority government.

Personally, its either Blue or Red, not shades of grey that we have now.

You have hit the nail on the head. It might not be discussed in this light by Mr & Mrs Average, but its very much present in the minds of the institutional foreign investment community.

Australia's sovereign risk level has increased dramatically. This is not good, as it effects the marginal dollar of investment. Or in other words it increases the opportunity cost of investing.

 

[Belbo]

You won't hear that in the cafe's / bars in Fitzroy or Balmain, but the lack of perceived legitimacy that Gillard has does impact on the public's view of her and her government. From the way she became leader and the fact that she is relying on MP's who come from a conservative background in the lower house, whilst being in a proxy-Coalition with the Greens in the Senate. It may work in Germany and other European nations but Australia isn't used to this at a Federal level at least. The Labor-Greens coalition is Tassy isn't going that well either before someone says, look we have a functioning state minority government.

With respect, Buzz, your use of the word 'legitimacy' in this context is highly inappropriate. Suggesting even its 'percieved' absence suggests something unconstitutional or contrary to internationally-agreed norms of government formation.

Certainly, a multiple-minorities coalition goverment is abnormal in Australia (ignoring the Coalition's precendents), but it is entirely legitimate in every important sense of the term. Even the Coalition's top cannons dare not dip their toes in those inappropriately-putrescent hyperbolic waters (again).

 

[lizzie]

your use of the word 'legitimacy' in this context is highly inappropriate. Suggesting even its 'percieved' absence suggests something unconstitutional or contrary to internationally-agreed norms of government formation.

I think buzz was talking in terms of perception by the general voting public ... not the legality version.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I think buzz was talking in terms of perception by the general voting public ... not the legality version.

Yes, that's it. Should have been a little clearer. Thanks Lizzie