Why not keep it all ....
Cliff
Cliff
Chinese buying Sydney Property & Pushing Aussies Out of Market
- Thread starter HomeBuyAU
- Start date
Interesting graph!
I wonder what is all this investment in? It wouldn't be agriculture, they have more than enough corn. Don't think they're big players in Mining. Tourism? Surely not education. They're all our main industries off the top of my head.
Seems like the yanks are more than just paying us off to station some Marines up in the NT!
Funny you mention the Greeks and Italians... I have this theory that each migration wave has brought to Australia more and more property-loving cultures and this has only increased the obsession that we Aussies have for property.
An old friend of mine told me that when the "wogs" came in the 50s they showed a lot more property flair than the locals. They found it unthinkable that they should rent so they started buying their homes as soon as they could save a few dollars. They pooled the family's resources to do it and whenever a son/daughter/brother/sister/cousin were short the family would step in.
When we first arrived here our landlord was an Italian young lady in her early 30s who already had several IPs under her belt. When we asked her how she managed to do it she said she was pressed by her parents to invest as soon as she had a job and they insisted she lived at home board-free to speed up her savings. When she married they gave her the deposit for her next IP. I sometimes wonder how many millions she must be worth by now.
The Asians that followed were even more property-obsessed. Asians attending auctions in some areas are punching many times above their weight in population numbers. By the way, if you see Asians at auctions you can almost be sure they're Australian citizens. Foreign nationals are too afraid to gamble their money in this bizarre roulette.
The big difference between this generation and the previous ones is the sheer volume of cash that the Chinese are bringing in from abroad. I have no problem with foreigners buying Australian residential however as far as the Chinese are concerned there are a few points that we PIs need to consider because of the distortion they bring to the market:
- Many overseas Chinese buy property to store wealth, not as investments that bring in income. So a lot of properties stay vacant.
- Feng shui is as important as price/location when selecting a property.
- Property is seen as a way to earn residency here. Nothing wrong with that apart from the sometimes devious means to achieve it. For example this.
- A lot of the money involved is dubious due to the nature of business in China. There's no way you can do business there without going out of the straight and narrow, and the bigger you get the more you will be on the shady side.
- A lot of creativity is used to get past currency controls.
- There are many ways to get around FIRB, the easiest one being to buy through a "relative".
But sometimes I wonder whether FIRB is for real. At a recent family gathering I met a Chinese businessman - a "relative" - who told me he's bought 2 properties. When I asked whether he had trouble with the FIRB he looked quite surprised as he had never heard of them. He said he just researched the property sites, picked his properties and paid - no question asked.
im not a wog, nor was around in teh 50s, but im pretty sure when these people just arrive, they dont think "lets buy a property for investment purposes" they have some cultural tendancy to want to have a house as part of their makeup,
Im pretty sure they would still be buying a house in the countries where property has gone nowhere, in fact backwards eg Japan
They just got teh added bonus of a good RE market, and CG over the years
Hopefully the new government finally addresses the issue of foreign investment. It is only going to get worse otherwise.
Hi TMNT, I'm not saying anything different. Yeah it's in their cultural make-up. My point is that as Australia takes in generations after generations of property-loving migrants, our cultural make-up is going to change in the same way.
Yes it looks like all the Americans are pricing out the locals according to the earlier graphs.
but aren't most of these chinese australian citizens? So whats the problem.
Personally I think it is better for the nation to bring in migrants who can contribute to the economy rather than sponge of it, which is the geralisation of a number of other cultures entering.
I'm not advocating for more control, just saying that if we have controls in place let's make sure it's working or we shouldn't bother at all.
Actually a lot of things are very hard to control eg. the source of money. Things that are widely accepted as standard practice in China can be a no-no in Australia, for example a director of infrastructure owning a building company working for the government, a general involved in a custom clearing house, a district party chief involved in land development deals that push farmers to the brink etc...
We must keep in mind that in China the government, the party, the military and the business sector are one big block that's impossible to separate. If these links are better known it wouldn't surprise me that a lot of the money coming into Australia would be rightly viewed as money laundering. At some stage someone will need to raise the ethics of it all. Surely we welcome the money but...
Or maybe we should turn a blind eye and just not attempt to control this sort of stuff. But at least we should be aware of it and accept it is distorting our market.
You don't even need to be creative, there are rules over there that allows each citizen to exchange $50k USD (or equivalent in other currencies) per year and *legally* transferred out of the country. Not exactly hard to get enough relatives to do that to en masse a sizeable amount...
Another way is find an importer here that imports from China. They've collected crap load of AUD by selling their wares here and need RMB to settle their purchases in China....RMB in, AUD out and none of this AML crap to worry about.
The US is a major investor in Australia in resources, much bigger than China and Japan.
Think of the likes of Peabody, Shell, ExxonMobil etc. Who do you think is building all the coal mines in the east coast and LNG facilities?
Shell owns 30% of Woodside Energy, Australia's largest oil and gas company?
Think of the likes of Peabody, Shell, ExxonMobil etc. Who do you think is building all the coal mines in the east coast and LNG facilities?
Shell owns 30% of Woodside Energy, Australia's largest oil and gas company?
They are VERY big investors in mining, oil and gas. Much bigger than Japan and China combined.
And Rio Tinto is a UK company in case people are confused
That's creativity to me
Yep there's a roaring trade between individuals exchanging currency, even giving out loans across borders at hefty commissions.
You'd be surprised it's often the other way round with the transaction favouring the party that wants the AUD...keep in mind these are SME employing 50-100 heads so the amount won't be tens of millions at a time. They won't do this without the appropriate introductions or having known the other party for some time either
You'd think he's only the boss of a SME... until you find out his wife's uncle is the local party secretary and each and every member of her family runs a highly profitable business due mostly to his political clout... A pattern that's repeated many times everywhere.
Sure, most Chinese people are not in this category. But they're also the least likely to overpay tens of thousand dollars on a property in Australia.
They won't do this without the appropriate introductions or having known the other party for some time either
It's called relatives helping one another.
I have lots of relatives like that. One guy is my relative because he comes from the same village as my wife's parents. Another used to be my wife's cousin's best friend. Another one came to visit us highly recommended by my daughter's in-laws. When we realised he shares our last name he became our "doubly relative".
There's nothing too hard between relatives.
It doesn't matter if they American, Russian or Chinese.
Well it comes down to how long they have been Australian citizens. If it is a recent change in demographics and wealth due to immigration, then that might be the broader issue that needs to be addressed also.
I'm far from a socilaist although it is not good when you have a few percent of people controlling most of the wealth. Especially if foreigners are the ones pushing out Australians to do so.
The bottom line is that as an Australian I can't buy property in China. Similarly the Chinese should not be allowed to buy property in Australia.
Royal Dutch Shell plc, commonly known as Shell, is an Anglo?Dutch multinational oil and gas company incorporated in the United Kingdom and headquartered in the Netherlands. Wikipedia
The Howard Federal Government blocked the takeover of Shell by Woodside in 2001 on the grounds of national interest
If you take your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion , we should be giving everything back to the aboriginals . Is that you want ?
Or do you believe there's a wong way and a white way to do things ....
I really find it hard to believe that we still have rascist views like yours expressed today .
Yes it is rascist and people should not be afraid to call it that. I will be disappointed if this is deleted the same way by my previous reply to GM was deleted .
Yes , we could ignore GM , but why ....
Cliff
Someone that came here during the early Goldrush in Australia 150 years ago and stayed,and kept their own style blended in with the locals..
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