Chinese buying Sydney Property & Pushing Aussies Out of Market

[Deltaberry]

Royal Dutch Shell plc, commonly known as Shell, is an Anglo?Dutch multinational oil and gas company incorporated in the United Kingdom and headquartered in the Netherlands. Wikipedia

Ah yes my bad, Shell is Anglo.

Anyway, when people rave about Gladstone and Fishermen's Bend etc, all these sites are foreign owned. BG, Shell, Exxon, PetroChina, Inpex, Total, Petronas.

Only a very few players - like Woodside (hardly Australian) and Santos have some interest in a few sites

 

[Deltaberry]

I'm not advocating for more control, just saying that if we have controls in place let's make sure it's working or we shouldn't bother at all.

Actually a lot of things are very hard to control eg. the source of money. Things that are widely accepted as standard practice in China can be a no-no in Australia, for example a director of infrastructure owning a building company working for the government, a general involved in a custom clearing house, a district party chief involved in land development deals that push farmers to the brink etc...

We must keep in mind that in China the government, the party, the military and the business sector are one big block that's impossible to separate. If these links are better known it wouldn't surprise me that a lot of the money coming into Australia would be rightly viewed as money laundering. At some stage someone will need to raise the ethics of it all. Surely we welcome the money but...

Or maybe we should turn a blind eye and just not attempt to control this sort of stuff. But at least we should be aware of it and accept it is distorting our market.

What is seen as money laundering in one country may be the way business has to be done in another.

 

[truong]

Well it comes down to how long they have been Australian citizens.

Why is this a problem? Why can't they have every right and duty of an Australian citizen the day they become one?

If it is a recent change in demographics and wealth due to immigration, then that might be the broader issue that needs to be addressed also.

Are you advocating for a ban on Chinese immigration? And limiting the wealth they can bring into this country? I hope you see the nonsense of this.

I'm far from a socilaist although it is not good when you have a few percent of people controlling most of the wealth. Especially if foreigners are the ones pushing out Australians to do so.

Trying to push buttons? It won't work here.

The bottom line is that as an Australian I can't buy property in China. Similarly the Chinese should not be allowed to buy property in Australia.

Oh yes Australians can buy property in China. Your bottom line is flawed.

 

[DavidMc]

Oh yes Australians can buy property in China. Your bottom line is flawed.

Ahem. Not even Chinese can buy property (or more correctly, land) in China.

There is no privately owned, or freehold, land in China according to this - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-23/greens-foreign-ownership-claim-overstated/4965854

 

[Dan_p]

Well it comes down to how long they have been Australian citizens.


The bottom line is that as an Australian I can't buy property in China. Similarly the Chinese should not be allowed to buy property in Australia.

Makes no difference. If they are a citizen then I dont see the problem.

Go and get citizenship in China and perhaps you would be allowed to buy property there.

In your opinion how long should someone be a citizen, forced to rent until they are allowed to buy their own property?

The point you are missing sir, is that an Australian citizen is an Australian

 

[sanj]

The point you are missing sir, is that an Australian citizen is an Australian

Not unless theyve got matching southern cross tattoos just like GM

 

[Dan_p]

Royal Dutch Shell plc, commonly known as Shell, is an Anglo?Dutch multinational oil and gas company incorporated in the United Kingdom and headquartered in the Netherlands. Wikipedia

I think what he meant was Woodside is Australia's largest oil and gas company, and even that is 30% owned by Shell

Woodside is Australia's largest independent dedicated oil and gas company and one of the world's leading producers of liquefied natural gas.​​​​

http://www.woodside.com.au/Pages/default.aspx

 

[GreenMedallion]

If you take your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion , we should be giving everything back to the aboriginals . Is that you want ?

Indigenous Australian CAN and should be able to buy property in Australia as they are as Australian as anyone else.

Or do you believe there's a wong way and a white way to do things ....

I really find it hard to believe that we still have rascist views like yours expressed today .

Yes it is rascist and people should not be afraid to call it that. I will be disappointed if this is deleted the same way by my previous reply to GM was deleted .

Yes , we could ignore GM , but why ....

When I said the Chinese I was referring to Chinese citizens, not Chinese Australians. I'm not being racist although we have to protect Australians (of all races) interest from excessive foreign investment.

If millions of Canadians become massively wealthy suddenly and want to buy up Australian property at the detriment of Australians, then it would be the same problem that needs to be addressed. Skin colour has nothing to do with it. At the moment though, the problem is overwhelmingly being caused by buyers from China.

 

[GreenMedallion]

Why is this a problem? Why can't they have every right and duty of an Australian citizen the day they become one?

It is a problem if they are all millionaires as soon as they become citizens. It prices existing Australians out of the market. Now it might not be so much of a problem for those of us who are financially comfortable, although I worry about our children.

Are you advocating for a ban on Chinese immigration? And limiting the wealth they can bring into this country?

Not a ban per-se, but tighter limits and controls.

Oh yes Australians can buy property in China. Your bottom line is flawed.

I cannot buy a property there and fully own it. I can only lease it.

 

[truong]

Ahem. Not even Chinese can buy property (or more correctly, land) in China.

There is no privately owned, or freehold, land in China according to this - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-23/greens-foreign-ownership-claim-overstated/4965854

Both Chinese nationals and foreign residents can buy residential property in China subject to the usual law and customs i.e. you buy the lease to occupy the land or the right to use it as the case may be for up to 70 years. This ownership has a value that is traded on the market. Similar in principle to parts of Australia and nothing new.

Foreigners have to get approval by several departments, including security which is the harder one to get. There are many traps and I'm not knowledgeable enough to list them, but one biggie is that you lose your property if your residency is revoked (this makes sense though: if you don't have the right to stay in China, on what basis can you keep the right to use the property?)

Different rules for commercial property: you can own through a Chinese corporation or an approved JV. Some non-residents use this to circumvent the residential restrictions.

 

[GreenMedallion]

but one biggie is that you lose your property if your residency is revoked (this makes sense though: if you don't have the right to stay in China, on what basis can you keep the right to use the property?)

That's not the case in Australia though with regards to foreign investors. Our rules (or lack of rules) are overly generous at present and must change.

 

[o0o]

Someone told me you can't buy land in Canberra ... apparently it's all leasehold but I'm not sure of this.

 

[HiEquity]

Never before in the history of the world has so much been made of so little... or something like that.

Can I just point out:
- the fact that other countries do something is not a good reason to do it. Are they as developed or successful as we are? Is their system of govt one we want to emulate. I could go on...
- just because someone says something is a problem doesn't make it one.
- every systematic review of foreign property ownership in Australia has shown it is a marginal issue at most in terms of scale and consequence.
- foreigners can buy our property but they can't take it away. In many cases they pay too much and have to sell at a loss to more savvy locals eg Japanese investment in gold coast apartments.
- public policy conducted in response to the base prejudice of the population rarely ends well.

Having said all that I would support a general ban on foreign govts or govt owned companies buying land in Australia.

 

[Deltaberry]

Ahem. Not even Chinese can buy property (or more correctly, land) in China.

There is no privately owned, or freehold, land in China according to this - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-23/greens-foreign-ownership-claim-overstated/4965854

Well that's just a technical argument.

You do realise you don't own your land here too yea? Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II has ultimate ownership and can claim your land back.

 

[truong]

That's not the case in Australia though with regards to foreign investors. Our rules (or lack of rules) are overly generous at present and must change.

If you're prepared to drop your prejudices you may have raised an interesting point here, that of reciprocity (the granting of certain rights to a foreign national if the same rights are granted by their country to our citizens).

Although simple in theory it leads to all sorts of complications as soon as trade agreements, diplomacy and power play are involved. Italy for example applies reciprocity on foreign property buyers but nevertheless Chinese nationals have been able to buy freehold property in Italy without hindrance.

 

[Phiber]

Some shocking racist comments on this thread promoting second class citizens. For a nation built on immigration, this is absolutely unbelievable....

 

[Ideo]

Some shocking racist comments on this thread promoting second class citizens. For a nation built on immigration, this is absolutely unbelievable....

Unfortunately it is completely believable.

Disappointing, but believable.

 

[Angel]

As far as I am aware, GM, the people paying over market prices for properties are a tiny minority buying top-end supply that 99% of the population would never purchase anyway. So what is the problem again How is this pricing average Aussies out of the market?

 

[Ideo]

As far as I am aware, GM, the people paying over market prices for properties are a tiny minority buying top-end supply that 99% of the population would never purchase anyway. So what is the problem again How is this pricing average Aussies out of the market?

Because they look different?

I'm in no position to buy 10mill+ properties. They are. Good for them. I wish them happiness.

I'm not going to have a strop because some foreign looking types are buying property I can't afford in the first place.

 

[Aaron_C]

It's just simple jealousy. It's easy to blame asians because they look different. I do agree to a certain extent that it isn't exactly a level playing field (corrupt money vs legit tax-paid money) but that's the way the market works.