Da Vinci Code- The Movie, the book, the theory

[monoply]

Hi Shonnie,

The majority of the new Testemant was written by four men, because they had direct friendships with Jesus, or freinds who had direct friendships with him.

They were eyewitness accounts, and were verified by many back 2000 years ago. Jews are well known for being meticulous with detail.

I believe God created the world through creation, and since I beleive that, I have no problem at all in believing God inspired the Bible through men, and had them put it put together. No suprise either that the first book ever printed by the man who invented the printing press was the Bible.

Some reasons why Browns book is so popular are: People love conspiracy theories, it is fast paced, it has short chapters, it supposedly breaks secret code, and searches for the holy grail.

A bit like the X-fliles..........the truth is out there.

 

[Twitch]

It's certainly since been used to justify many attocities, but consider that Christianity today is a religion which tollerates novels such as the Da Vinci Code. At least the church leaders have not called for the execution of Dan Brown and his publishers for putting the Da Vinci Code on the shelves and into the cinemas.

If this was a few hundred years ago then I think that is exactly what they'd be doing. Salem witch trials were late 1600s. The inquisition was still burning people into the early 1800s. A biblical scholar was locked up in the tower of London in the mid 1800s for just questioning whether is was actualy Moses who wrote the first 5 books of the bible.

The difference now is that the Christian church is not in power, and given their history, must be kept from it for the good of all.

/end over serious post

 

[Twitch]

Hi Shonnie,

The majority of the new Testemant was written by four men, because they had direct friendships with Jesus, or freinds who had direct friendships with him.

They were eyewitness accounts, and were verified by many back 2000 years ago. Jews are well known for being meticulous with detail.

Yes well, this is one opinion. Biblical scholars have concluded for at least the past 100 years that there is not a single eye witness account of Jesus in the bible. In fact the only author that can be known with any confidence is Paul (who never met Jesus), the rest are either anonymous (eg the Gospels) or pious fraud.

 

[duncan_m]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pkEcJVQ&search=kissing hanks

 

[Mary]

Dr Barbara Thiering wrote a book called 'Jesus The Man' which was published in 1993. It was based on an interpretation of Dead Sea Scrolls which were discovered in 1947.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0552139505/203-6494455-9325507

Barbara says Jesus was a politician in his day who was persecuted for being a radical. She explains miracles through science, example: apparently when Jesus walked on water, the tide was out; when the Red Sea was parted and came back in, it was a tsunami etc.

Someone has summarised the book as

Jesus Christ, father-of-three, is married to Mary Magdalene. He's employed as a priest at Qumran, famous these days for the Dead Sea Scrolls. Despite being no more 'holy' than you or I, he decides to go down in history as the Messiah. So, he arranges for his crucifixion (which takes place just outside the Qumran toilets) to be faked, and then he writes - or possibly dictates - the four Gospels. After a few years he travels with Paul, via Malta, to Rome, where he is potentially linked to the destruction by fire of the city. He retires to France, at the age of 70, where he later passes away from old age, in retirement.

I also think it's funny the way the church has depicted Jesus as an anglo saxan when he was clearly of Middle Eastern appearance.

 

[pieman]

I believe that the da-vinci code is the complete and utter truth hiding the lies of the catholic church etc who are worried about losing their power base, something that has been based on 2000 years worth of lies and deceipt.
evil evil religion that is the basis for pretty much all of the worlds problems.

regards
pieman the proud atheist.

 

[Andrew]

For those of you who insist on taking the bible literally - Why can't I own a Canadian?

andy

 

[Andrew]

and this Top 10 signs you're a fundamentalist christian

andy

 

[Andrew_A]

42

Personally I'm fond of Douglas Adams and his take on the universe..

“There is a theory which states that if ever for any reason anyone discovers what exactly the Universe is for and why it is here it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another that states that this has already happened.”

 

[Merovingian]

I like this one:

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

 

[mit]

Hi Shonnie,

The majority of the new Testemant was written by four men, because they had direct friendships with Jesus, or freinds who had direct friendships with

Evidence please?


Mainstream scholarship is that the earliest gospels was written 50 years after Jesus supposedly died. Pauls letters seemed to be earlier but seem not to point to a historical Jesus but a God on a metaphysical plain.

No eyewitness accounts exists. The earliest non-Christian mention of Jesus was Josephus and these are pretty obvious forgeries, other than that it was into the second century before there is any mention by non-Christians.

It is also well into the second century that the Gospels are mentioned.

Note when we say that well into the second century. The physical manuscripts that we have are even at least one hundred years after this and could be forgeries or otherwise doctored.

Back to the Da Vinci code. The good part is that it has people looking at the History of the Christian religion rather than the accepted dogma. The fact that:

. the Gospels were written well after the fact
. there were many Gospels written most of which are rejected
. A lot of paganism was mixed into Christianity.

The bad part is that it accepts without question some other story.

You can still believe the Bible is inspired but no real scholar believes that there are any eyewitness records.

MIT

 

[Shonnie]

I'm all for people having faith in God and the higher being and what not.. I just think that it's not good to ONLY believe that your religion is THE religion (which is what starts wars)..

My boyfriend, who is a now ex born again christian, honestly believed that God himself had written the bible, and sent it down from heaven.. obviously- this is not the case.. But this is what he had been told since birth basically, so he had no reason to question it. (Until I came along and shook things up..)

The main issues i have with religion is that it's like "it's our way or the highway"- you dont do this, you go to hell, if your gay your disgusting, you have an abortion, your a murderer.. Although this isn't ALL religion, its a big part of a lot of them, I just dont think that God would discriminate against someone because of their sexual preference or lifestyle..

If your religious thats great, but I think that you need to be conscious of the fact that there are other religions aswell, and yours is not 'the right one'.. and just be a little open minded, and accept that it can't have gone down the exact way a book says.. After all, we have the Koran as well (who says thats not right?).. and the Torah.. and sooo many other religions.. I think God would be a pretty chill dude, who would be accepting of everyone

 

[Peter 14.7]

Hi All

This post is not an attempt to offend anyone but simply my view of the above comments and my perspective on religion. Warning: very D & M.

Firstly, am I Christian?

Yes, I class myself as one and find the Salvation Army to have the best approach to my version of god. Do good onto others. Be kind. Be fair. Accept all and judge none.

But why do I believe in God?

To me, is a simple argument of there is either:

1. A God aka Superior Being (be it/he/she be Aliens, God, Allah, Hindu, etc..)

2. No God

If 2. No God, is correct then we are all simply highly educated animals. Doomed to birth, life and death and to rot back into our essential elements. We may be rare in the Universe but nevertheless animals. We have made God because like birds scared by a Scarecrow we don’t know any better. We believe the myth. In which case it does not matter what we think (God or not) as we don’t live past death and that’s it.

No God would explain how we can be cruel and heartless to other mankind (Nazis, East Timor, etc.) because we are animals fighting for resources. A wolf does not feel remorse when it kills a sheep. It simple eats.

However No God does not explain how we fall in love instead of lust? Why we see beauty in sunsets and babies? Why we admire music, art, poems? Why we feel?

Why we have soul?

So Option 1. A God Exists.

It does explain why we have a soul. That is , we ourselves are superior beings to all other life and we are here for a reason.

That is why:

The world is too wonderful, too beautiful, too amazing to come about by chance?
Nature grows where nothing should exist at the highest mountains to the deepest Ocean vents. We have built a civilisation that is technologically stupendous. We have not been wiped out by an Asteroid or Great Plaque, etc.

As God exists, there must be life after death of this body. We are here to learn lessons or maybe simply to refine the species until we can take our place in the great order of the Universe? Only God knows.

The trouble is one religion thinks it is superior to another. To me this is self-centred as if you believe that God is all powerful, all caring Being intent on our good why would he/she/it have only came once in 2000 years ago in one part of the World?

Obviously God would have visited all the continents and the natives be it the Incas, Arabs, Aboriginals, American Indians, Japanese, Eskimos, Easter Islanders, Maori, etc… and their history keepers would record it in their language and customs and over the years it obviously got changed with natural progression and sometimes personal interest.

So to me if God exists then Da Vinci Code is a story. It may be accurate or not but if God exists the Book itself is here for a reason? A purpose of God? God must want it to be read and debated.

If No God , then Da Vinci Code is a story and we are still animals “scared of the Scarecrow.”

In the end, it is story.

Regards, Peter 147

 

[monoply]

Hi Mit

Matthew, a tax collector, was a disciple of Jesus. Probably written after Mark
around 37-68 AD. Written to the Jews.

Mark, a missionary with Paul, and called a son by Peter. Probably the first gospel written around 40-65 AD. Written to the Romans.

Luke, a greek doctor who tavelled with Paul. Probably written after Matthew and Mark around 59-61 AD. Written to the Greeks.

John, a fisherman and disciple of Jesus. The last gospel written, probably around 80-98 AD. Written to the Gentile Christians.

I know this is just one opinion. Plenty of others to back it up, and plenty of others to say its rubbish

I think God would be a pretty chill dude, who would be accepting of everyone

lol Shonnie, you wish.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 1:7
But the LORD is the TRUE God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Jeremiah 10:10

Got to admit, Im a bit blown away by some of the responses in this thread. I guess thats the way it goes these days. Times are a changing.

Im not going to go on anymore in this thread. I dont think any of you are about to listen to me or change your ideas, but Im happy for anyone to pm me if they have any questions or want to continue any of these discussions.

Enjoy the Da Vinci code, and this thread.

Cheers
mono

 

[geoffw]

Mainstream scholarship is that the earliest gospels was written 50 years after Jesus supposedly died.

According to Wikipedia, Mark is placed between 68-73AD by consensus of scolarship. But even then, scolarship suggests that elements of the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke were commonly based on a fourth unknown source, "Q".

40-50 years after is still long enough to be based on direct or once removed direct knowledge, and might not be considered an unreasonable gap, given that the early followers of Jesus were a part of a very small group, only a part of mainstream Judaism for some years.

A minority sect, even when they started to get some support out of Judaism, is unlikely to have gotten much attention from the outside world until the had gathered some strength.

 

[geoffw]

Just went to see the Da Vinci Code - and I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about..

I've read the book, and loved it- I watched the movie, and loved it too.. no complaints from me .. I love all the theories behind it too..

We've just come back from the movie tonight.

It was a rare chance to get away from the children, and to talk about a few things before the movie (unplanned because the session we went to had been fully booked).

It was a nice little thriller, though not edge of the seat in the way the book was.

The theories started out perhaps plausible, but then became more far-fetched. A flimsy basis building a shaky building.

I suspect that the reason the theories (as distinct from the book) became popular is that people want to believe them. Conspiracy theories especially have always had their followings.

(Especially those which say that anybody who says that the conspiracy is bunk is obviously a part of the conspiracy. That's happening in some of the responses to the book I think).

 

[Jamie]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 1:7

Christ there are some gullible people in this world. Your membership card to the club is waiting at the front desk.

Don't forget to pick it up on your way out.

Jamie.

 

[Shonnie]

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Proverbs 1:7
But the LORD is the TRUE God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Jeremiah 10:10

THATS what I mean about the bad side of religion.. So some random guy named jeremiah 'apparently' wrote this line a book over 2000 years ago.. there is NO proof that that is true.. I think that God is a beautiful thing, not something to fear and be scared of..

And just because a book tells me to fear him/her doesn't mean I'm going too.. I think its stupid that people should feel guilty and fear their entire lives just because religion tells them they have too..

Personally I'm much happier believing that I'm a good person who will go to heaven rather than a person who is doomed to go to hell unless I refrain from sex before marriage, have some bread and wine once a week and confess my sins..

If religion is based around fear its a bad thing.. if thats the way I was gunna be I may as well become a politician and instill fear in everyone's lives..

My God is cool.. She likes me, I like her.. I'm going to heaven coz I have good morals.. Maybe one day my God will meet your God mono.. and she'll go "man, you gots to CHILLLLLL.." hehehe

(no offence intended)

 

[Phil_H]

Christ there are some gullible people in this world. Your membership card to the club is waiting at the front desk.

Don't forget to pick it up on your way out.

Jamie.

hahahaha

/me looks for the kudos button

Cheers

Phil

 

[Twitch]

However No God does not explain how we fall in love instead of lust? Why we see beauty in sunsets and babies? Why we admire music, art, poems? Why we feel?

Peter, evolutionary psychology has an excellent explaination for this; for love, beauty, friendship as well as for jealousy, violence etc. I found the explainations far more plausible than "God did it". This book is a great one on introducing evolutionary psychology and highly recommended as an entertaining informative read.