DaleGG - Early retirement, without the tears

[ianvestor]

I was wearing PJ's once when my sister and my brother in law came over at 2pm. My BIL asked me if I was just about to take a nap, and I just stared at him with a confused look on my face because I couldn't figure out why he would ask me that at 2pm!

Then my sister pointed out, "No, those are Ian's 'work' clothes".

 

[Perp]

I also take offense to the comment about spending time with your partner. I mean if that is not something you are prepared for, then how about spending your retirement looking for a partner you actually enjoy spending time with? Seriously.

However, I am sorry that you took offence to Dale's thoughts on spending time with a partner. He is speaking from his experience only, and having gone from calling himself 'semi-retired' whilst working 70 hours a week to spending almost all of his time with Sue in retirement, was something of a culture shock for both of them.

Don't get me wrong; today, they are closer than ever, still very happily married, and still love spending time together.

But, it has been a very different experience to what they had enjoyed for the previous twenty-five years, and one they weren't entirely prepared for.

gooram, I think you're a bit easily offended!

I think Dale made a fantastic point, and it's something that I've seen again and again amongst extended family and friends (well, friends' parents, mostly ).

It has little or nothing to do with their love for each other, but about the fact that each had developed daily routines that were somewhat independent. A classic example is the wife who doesn't work outside the home, and has developed a full life for herself with art/craft classes, coffee meetings with friends, cards, volunteer work, caring for aged parents, etc. Hubby is busting to retire to spend more time with her, only to discover that he has to make an appointment to see her. She used to do whatever she wanted during "office hours", without consulting or telling anybody. Once hubby's at home, he - quite reasonably - wants to be kept in the loop, so she has to get used to including somebody else in her daily plans. She'll inevitably occasionally forget to tell him about something, and he'll get annoyed because he was expecting her to be at home... He hasn't yet filled up his week with activities, so it's very easy for him to feel that she has a fuller life than him. Of course, it's a great problem to have - too much time! - and can be resolved, but if you're not prepared for it, it can be a very emotionally challenging time. The high divorce rate amongst couples retiring - and just after the kids have all left home - is testament to this.

It's not about love, it's about logistics.

 

[BayView]

gooram, I think you're a bit easily offended!

I think Dale made a fantastic point, and it's something that I've seen again and again amongst extended family and friends (well, friends' parents, mostly ).

It has little or nothing to do with their love for each other, but about the fact that each had developed daily routines that were somewhat independent. A classic example is the wife who doesn't work outside the home, and has developed a full life for herself with art/craft classes, coffee meetings with friends, cards, volunteer work, caring for aged parents, etc. Hubby is busting to retire to spend more time with her, only to discover that he has to make an appointment to see her. She used to do whatever she wanted during "office hours", without consulting or telling anybody. Once hubby's at home, he - quite reasonably - wants to be kept in the loop, so she has to get used to including somebody else in her daily plans. She'll inevitably occasionally forget to tell him about something, and he'll get annoyed because he was expecting her to be at home... He hasn't yet filled up his week with activities, so it's very easy for him to feel that she has a fuller life than him. Of course, it's a great problem to have - too much time! - and can be resolved, but if you're not prepared for it, it can be a very emotionally challenging time. The high divorce rate amongst couples retiring - and just after the kids have all left home - is testament to this.

It's not about love, it's about logistics.

Good point here.

I have known thousands of retired couples through golf, and almost all the couples who have the best relationships combine a mix of shared activities (golf) and separate ones from each other.

 

[aussierogue]

Yes i think Gooram is a bit easily offended.

The TRUTH is that mariage is about compromise and time ands space is a huge element of that.

Instead of 'Hating' self help - channel your energies into hating something that matters like Collingwood or the West coast eagles. It always fascinates me when people hate something that is essentially harmless or even in spirit tries to do something good. You could mildly dislike it - then move on dude!!

 

[evand]

It took me a while of semi retirement/retirement to realise work is about more than just an income. Its also very much about job satisfaction, social interaction, personal fulfilment, self esteem etc etc.

In retirement that disapears and the fact that a lot of people define themselves by their work, that goes too.

Its very hard to replace all that. Its great at the beginning, but wears off after a year or two.

A few years ago i bought my wife a really nice, leather bound book of famous quotes. One of the first ones she pointed out to me said

"'A wife can forgive a husband just about anything except being at home 24 hours per day" Very timely i thought.

 

[Andrew_A]

Excellent thought provoker, thanks for posting James.

Going from an environment where the structure is provided or forced onto you to a world where you have to provide the structure is indeed a challenge.

 

[gooram]

gooram, I think you're a bit easily offended!

Perhaps I wasn't really offended

I just see way too many unhappy relationships for my liking, and way too much acceptance of it and moaning about it, rather than people taking steps to do something about it. I guess I took the original statement out of context.

 

[joanmc]

excellent post James and so true!

We went through (and are still going through) nearly all of the above.

We have found being under each others feet 24/7 very difficult to adjust to. (getting there though)

Also the social isolation as during the day while the kids are at school all our friends are at work and afternoons we keep for the kids.

Boredom and the feeling of not contributing to society are bigs ones for me personally too.

All of these need to be worked through and it really makes you assess how you perceive yourself and your sense of self-worth.

again, great post James

 

[aussierogue]

I agree fully with everyones comments regarding how challenging retirement can be. But I would also likle to make the observation that this is also a sad state of affairs. We as humans are very bad at sitting back and smelling the roses. I blame those dam protestants for giving us this idea that work leeds us closer to god.

I reckon sometimes the opposite is true - so off the greatest people sit under trees for days on end. This idea of always doing something is also part of the reason we are screwing up the earth.

If we could just learn to relax, enjoy the moment, feel less pressure to be always contributing then the world would be a better place. Most of our work leeds to nothing useful at the end of the day - just more work

Ciao

Aussie

 

[DavidMc]

I highly recommend writing up that list of 'stuff I always wanted to do' whilst you're still working.

Cause once you're at home doing nothing it can be hard to think of it.

 

[Ausprop]

it's xmas season coming up too... am always envious of my mates that have jobs that have all the big fancy xmas parties and the whole hoo ha that goes with it.

 

[HiEquity]

it's xmas season coming up too... am always envious of my mates that have jobs that have all the big fancy xmas parties and the whole hoo ha that goes with it.

I can't tell whether you're serious or not - if you are you can take my place at one of those if you like - I always manage to find an excuse to miss out! Complete waste of time for me... when you can't talk shop with work colleagues it can get pretty difficult when you realise you have nothing else in common!

 

[Ausprop]

yeh I am serious... have had awesome xmas parties. I remember one in the UK, the company booked out a nightclub and it was full on open bar, a woman with a snake, some models that stood still and you painted, dwarf throwing competition etc. Even back in tame Oz the functions at the hotels, yacht clubs etc are pretty good, not to mention supplier prezzies

HE...too much talking not enough drinking I think!

 

[asdf]

yeh I am serious... have had awesome xmas parties. I remember one in the UK, the company booked out a nightclub and it was full on open bar, a woman with a snake, some models that stood still and you painted, dwarf throwing competition etc. Even back in tame Oz the functions at the hotels, yacht clubs etc are pretty good, not to mention supplier prezzies

HE...too much talking not enough drinking I think!

Now that GFC is over, parties will be bigger and better this X'mas. By the 2nd week of Dec, X'mas can't come soon enough as you've had enough of the parties and absolute shi*s with cabbies charging $100 for a $20 ride. But thats when they make all their $ so can't blame them.

 

[jaycee]

yeah I'm looking forwrd to my company's $25/head contribution to any Christmas celebrations yippee !

 

[DavidMc]

Now that GFC is over, parties will be bigger and better this X'mas. By the 2nd week of Dec, X'mas can't come soon enough as you've had enough of the parties and absolute shi*s with cabbies charging $100 for a $20 ride. But thats when they make all their $ so can't blame them.

Don't get me started about Cabbies.

Personally I'm over them whinging my cab ride home isn't perfectly aligned with their trip back to their depot and them refusing to take me home.

Not to mention each time I get dropped off at the McDonalds near the airport and have to walk because 'I'm not allowed to work on my student visa'.

 

[House_Keeper]

My old man did a presentation last night for Positive Real Estate, about his thoughts on dealing with early retirement after over two years of same for himself. For anyone who might be interested, these are his notes that were handed out on the night. ....

Thank you for sharing James. This a very good set of tips for retirement.

I have always found strange that so many people assume that retirement is bliss. It may be nice for a while not to have to go to work, but then you need to find something that would make your life fulfilling. As much as people love to complain about their work, it gives them a sense of accomplishment and purpose, as well as social contacts.

I heard somebody say that "Man was engineer for work". That is very true. We get much of our fulfillment from what we achieve and how much we grow through the process. Idleness is not particularly fulfilling. Achieving something through personal effort is.

From the retired people I have observed, the happier ones seem to be the ones who fill their time with hobbies or activities they enjoy doing.

I wonder why it's not a common option for people to progressively cut down work by working fewer days per week, rather than going from full week to nothing. It would be a much more gradual transition to retirement. It would enable people to progressively fill the space that used to be devoted to work.

Cheers,

 

[Dazz]

I wonder why it's not a common option for people to progressively cut down work by working fewer days per week, rather than going from full week to nothing. It would be a much more gradual transition to retirement. It would enable people to progressively fill the space that used to be devoted to work.

.....wonder no more....


Simply take your comfortably well off employees hat off and pop your struggling business owners hat on for a wee while.


Balancing cashflows, appeasing never satisfied whinging employees, training schedules, supplier headaches, HR laws, safety regimes, trying to fill gaps where needed.....you get the picture.


Meanwhile, you've got this one smarmy employee who has been around the office for the past 18 months constantly doing bugger all whilst they tell all and sundry about how clever they are with their personal investing (shares / property / bonds etc) and how they are thinking of cutting back to maybe part-time work cos they don't need a full wage anymore.


Well, it would take about 10 seconds for me to decide what the response would be if they ever dared walk in my door and asked if I would agree to wind back their hours from 5 days to maybe 3 days a week, with a view to cutting back again to only one or two days a week in a year or two.


Yeah right buddy. That sounds great for you, and what about the continuity in your team, what about finding someone else to fill your role for the days you ain't gonna turn up, what about promotion prospects of the juniors whilst you partly block that position.....and most of all - what about my previous demand of 110% devotion and loyalty to the companies goals.


I'll tell ya what sport - how's this for an idea - why don't you pack your stuff up and bugger off 100% right now and I'll get my little HR girls to replace you with someone who is keen and hungry and will tow the company line.


Whoops - employees lovely notion of a gradual exit from paid employment - who still needs desparately needs the cashflow from at least 3 days per week work has just put at risk a bunch of loans that they bubbling away in the background. GULP.....hmmmm, maybe that wasn't such a cluey thing approaching the boss with that proposal after all.


My suggestion - if you can't afford to leave totally - keep your mouth shut until you can.


.....and yes, that was almost word for word what my boss told me a couple of years ago. It was ugly and I regret ever mentioning it to him.....but then cranky no nonsense American drilling managers don't stuff around with half baked wannabes.

 

[marg4000]

Well, cutting down our hours is exactly what hubby and I are doing at the moment. He is working 4 days a week and I am doing 3.

Thankfully, we are both hard working and are valued by our employers. They prefer to retain us on shorter hours rather than losing us altogether. And we are also fortunate to both be in jobs where part time work is possible without detriment to the employer or other staff.

Hubby had negotiated to reduce to 3 days per week from November, but due to current conditions in his office has agreed to stay on 4 days for a few months longer so as not to leave them in the lurch.

I work in a school as a teacher aide. When one librarian left I took on a large part of her work load, so they are getting a librarian for teacher aide pay. They know when they are well off. I even get to choose which days I work, and have already negotiated the option of reducing to 2 days a week when I want to.

All reductions in hours have been achieved by sitting down, talking things through sensibly, and reaching agreement on workloads that are suitable to both us and our employers.

So yes, reducing days worked can be achieved.
Marg

 

[Ausprop]

the thing is, if you can get some keen career minded white collar guy that has no award applicable, you can snare them in on somehting like $70k fulltime and slip in that little bit about "overtime as required" into the contract. dangle a carrot of career progression. next thing you know you have a guy living and breathing for your business. beats paying someone hourly or daily rates. what would be the point of paying someone 4 days and then having to pay a days overtime, when for the same money you can get 50+ hour weeks?