DaleGG - Early retirement, without the tears

[cu@thetop]

.....wonder no more....




Whoops - employees lovely notion of a gradual exit from paid employment - who still needs desparately needs the cashflow from at least 3 days per week work has just put at risk a bunch of loans that they bubbling away in the background. GULP.....hmmmm, maybe that wasn't such a cluey thing approaching the boss with that proposal after all.


My suggestion - if you can't afford to leave totally - keep your mouth shut until you can.


.....and yes, that was almost word for word what my boss told me a couple of years ago. It was ugly and I regret ever mentioning it to him.....but then cranky no nonsense American drilling managers don't stuff around with half baked wannabes.

The theory was sound but it was the timing / approach that was flawed. I read an interesting book by Ferris called "the 4 hour work week" which tells you how you can go about doing it.

Being an employer/fat controller myself I agree with your comments though- I want someone with a bit of commitment . They will always be paid for their work but I am taking all the risk so I want some reciprocity.

Ausprop hits it on the head- why have a casual when you can get a full timer for much the same price?

 

[marg4000]

Ausprop wrote:
the thing is, if you can get some keen career minded white collar guy that has no award applicable, you can snare them in on somehting like $70k fulltime and slip in that little bit about "overtime as required" into the contract. dangle a carrot of career progression. next thing you know you have a guy living and breathing for your business. beats paying someone hourly or daily rates. what would be the point of paying someone 4 days and then having to pay a days overtime, when for the same money you can get 50+ hour weeks?

The point is that he earns far more for the company than they pay him.
He can secure million dollar deals on a one sentence email. Not every "keen career minded white collar guy" can do that - you have to build up contacts, reputation and credibility over decades to even get to see the decision-makers. And forget the $70K - he will earn more than that when he reduces to 3 days.
Marg

 

[aussierogue]

Marg

What does your husband do if you dont mind me asking? Anything to do with coal?

 

[marg4000]

Sorry, I'm very careful with personal information given out on the net.
No, he is not involved in mining in any way.
Marg

 

[House_Keeper]

.....wonder no more....


Simply take your comfortably well off employees hat off and pop your struggling business owners hat on for a wee while.


Balancing cashflows, appeasing never satisfied whinging employees, training schedules, supplier headaches, HR laws, safety regimes, trying to fill gaps where needed.....you get the picture.


Meanwhile, you've got this one smarmy employee who has been around the office for the past 18 months constantly doing bugger all whilst they tell all and sundry about how clever they are with their personal investing (shares / property / bonds etc) and how they are thinking of cutting back to maybe part-time work cos they don't need a full wage anymore.


Well, it would take about 10 seconds for me to decide what the response would be if they ever dared walk in my door and asked if I would agree to wind back their hours from 5 days to maybe 3 days a week, with a view to cutting back again to only one or two days a week in a year or two.


Yeah right buddy. That sounds great for you, and what about the continuity in your team, what about finding someone else to fill your role for the days you ain't gonna turn up, what about promotion prospects of the juniors whilst you partly block that position.....and most of all - what about my previous demand of 110% devotion and loyalty to the companies goals.


I'll tell ya what sport - how's this for an idea - why don't you pack your stuff up and bugger off 100% right now and I'll get my little HR girls to replace you with someone who is keen and hungry and will tow the company line.


Whoops - employees lovely notion of a gradual exit from paid employment - who still needs desparately needs the cashflow from at least 3 days per week work has just put at risk a bunch of loans that they bubbling away in the background. GULP.....hmmmm, maybe that wasn't such a cluey thing approaching the boss with that proposal after all.


My suggestion - if you can't afford to leave totally - keep your mouth shut until you can.


.....and yes, that was almost word for word what my boss told me a couple of years ago. It was ugly and I regret ever mentioning it to him.....but then cranky no nonsense American drilling managers don't stuff around with half baked wannabes.

Very good points ...

I guess I didn't really consider it from the employer point of view. It would seem more of an hassle than anything for some employers. For something that important, it definitely helps to make an effort to look at the situation from the other party's point of view.

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Americans seem to be totally obsessed with money, losing track of more important things like family & health. Maybe not the best people to approach when you are focused on quality of life ...

I guess it all depends on the employer, and on the strength of your relationship with your employer. For example, teachers seem to have no problem working part time, many of them being mothers with family priorities, it is well accepted in this industry. Small companies owners may not want to bother with such things, except maybe if you have been an employee for a long time and have a lot of knowledge that is still very valuable to run the business. It may better to keep the oldies a few days a week, especially if they are training the younger generation. Large companies can probably handle it more easily, but it still depends on the strength of your relationship.

Your advice of keeping your mouth shut until you can truly afford to retire is sound though. You never know how people will take it.

Still, it may be worth a risk, isn't it? You may have to find another part time job, which may not be a bad experience after all. What's the point of repeating the same routine year after year?

Cheers,

 

[jaycee]

The point is that he earns far more for the company than they pay him.
He can secure million dollar deals on a one sentence email. Not every "keen career minded white collar guy" can do that - you have to build up contacts, reputation and credibility over decades to even get to see the decision-makers. And forget the $70K - he will earn more than that when he reduces to 3 days.
Marg

Can he leap whole buildings in a single bound as well ?

He sounds totally irreplceable the way you described him.

 

[Ausprop]

I'd rather work for myself - send one email and retire

Perhaps commission or success fee wouldbe beter?

 

[marg4000]

Can he leap whole buildings in a single bound as well ?

Nah, he has a dodgy knee. Would like to think it is an old sporting injury but is just plain old arthritis (and we are not getting any younger).
Marg

 

[morg]

yeah I'm looking forwrd to my company's $25/head contribution to any Christmas celebrations yippee !

Jaycee,
Does Your employer's name start with a "T" ?
If so, I've heard of their industry leading pay and conditions.

 

[lizzie]

ahem - none of our business trying to guess who others work for.

as for having hubby at home full time .... as much as i love him i think we would drive each other insane - both strong personalities who like to do things "our" way.

i would also hate to have to try and justify my time spent reading ss!

 

[Aaron Sice]

i used to work from home a lot.

with 3 kids flying around yelling, crying, tantrums - i can't handle it.

i spend more time in the office now than i ever did.

when i'm home i like to build stuff - shelves, cubbies, screens, decks, veggie gardens.

i imagine that's how i'll be when i retire - mr build-it.

 

[evand]

That's where 2 houses come in handy.

ahem - none of our business trying to guess who others work for.

as for having hubby at home full time .... as much as i love him i think we would drive each other insane - both strong personalities who like to do things "our" way.

i would also hate to have to try and justify my time spent reading ss!

 

[GreatPig]

cutting down our hours is exactly what hubby and I are doing at the moment. He is working 4 days a week and I am doing 3.

Ditto. I currently work 3 days a week and have been for the last couple of years.

Works well for me, but my employer is of two minds: they'd prefer I did five days' work but like only paying for three.

In my opinion, keeping your trap shut is a sure path to nowhere. If you ask for nothing, you will get it in abundance (anyone been watching Mad Men?). Of course it helps if you have a few chips to bargain with.

As for being bored in retirement, I think I've got about five life-times worth of stuff I want to pack in there.

GP

 

[Perp]

As for being bored in retirement, I think I've got about five life-times worth of stuff I want to pack in there.

I'm the same, and the concept of "bored" is, thankfully, quite foreign to me. I've often wondered what it is about people who are prone to getting bored that's different, and my first guess - which I'd love to hear other people's opinions about - is that it's curiosity.

For me, my curiosity - my desire to learn new things, see new places, acquire new skills, and meet new people - is enough to keep me occupied 24/7 for several lifetimes.

Without being patronising, I'm genuinely curious () as to what goes on inside the heads of people who experience boredom.

Or is it a need for routine, I wonder? ie To know what you're doing come Monday 9am?

 

[ianvestor]

For me, my curiosity - my desire to learn new things, see new places, acquire new skills, and meet new people - is enough to keep me occupied 24/7 for several lifetimes.

I get bored when there's something I need to have done, but haven't done yet, despite there being millions of fun things to do, I'm not allowing myself to do them until the boring thing is done but doesn't get done for ages, hence even more boredom. Hand in hand with procrastination for me.

 

[DavidMc]

For me, my curiosity - my desire to learn new things, see new places, acquire new skills, and meet new people - is enough to keep me occupied 24/7 for several lifetimes.

Yes, I find this happens when you are too busy to do all those other things. You can think of plenty of things you'd love to do.

When you have all the time in the world though these 'things to do' can escape you. It's as if the unlimited number of possibilities is so vast that it creates a mental blank.

Highly recommended to create that list when you're busy prior to taking time off.

 

[joanmc]

ozperp, this is something we have really been struggling with. I think that until you pack it all in you are so focussed on getting to that point that it fills every spare minute of your day but then when you get there.......unless you now have a new goal it all stops short.

I was really unprepared for how this would be and whilest some days are fabulous and we drop the kids at school and head off to gold class movies other days you just draw a blank and look at each other going "what do you want to do?" "dunno, what do you want to do?" "dunno".

Hubby is loving it I think as he was out there working and he likes not having to get in the car for hours each day, but every now and then you kinda go blank with what to do next.

It is hard to explain, a bit like giving birth, until you have been through it no one can really explain what it feels like.

And as we are still going through the hard bits 10 months on I am probably not being of any use here to anyone!

 

[House_Keeper]

I'm the same, and the concept of "bored" is, thankfully, quite foreign to me. I've often wondered what it is about people who are prone to getting bored that's different, and my first guess - which I'd love to hear other people's opinions about - is that it's curiosity.

For me, my curiosity - my desire to learn new things, see new places, acquire new skills, and meet new people - is enough to keep me occupied 24/7 for several lifetimes.

You're spot on. Besides hobbies, curiosity is a key thing when you have plenty of free time.

With google now, if you are merely curious about something, you can learn so much about it on the internet. This is just amazing, as it wasn't possible 15 years ago.

On the other hand, I'm not sure it's best to spend all your day in front of a computer, especially daytime. For me, when it's nice weather, I'd rather be out doing something, even if it's just going for a walk.

Social contacts help as well. Having people you call do things with and catch up with can take the boredom away.

Cheers,

 

[our obsession]

Oz:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatPig
As for being bored in retirement, I think I've got about five life-times worth of stuff I want to pack in there.

I'm the same, and the concept of "bored" is, thankfully, quite foreign to me. I've often wondered what it is about people who are prone to getting bored that's different, and my first guess - which I'd love to hear other people's opinions about - is that it's curiosity.

For me, my curiosity - my desire to learn new things, see new places, acquire new skills, and meet new people - is enough to keep me occupied 24/7 for several lifetimes.

Without being patronising, I'm genuinely curious () as to what goes on inside the heads of people who experience boredom.

Or is it a need for routine, I wonder? ie To know what you're doing come Monday 9am?

House Keeper:

You're spot on. Besides hobbies, curiosity is a key thing when you have plenty of free time.

With google now, if you are merely curious about something, you can learn so much about it on the internet. This is just amazing, as it wasn't possible 15 years ago.

On the other hand, I'm not sure it's best to spend all your day in front of a computer, especially daytime. For me, when it's nice weather, I'd rather be out doing something, even if it's just going for a walk.

Social contacts help as well. Having people you call do things with and catch up with can take the boredom away.

Cheers,

Oh yes.

The smorgasboard of life and I am but a glutton at it's doorway.

Curiosity, sense of wonder, credulous outlook, adventure, love, compassion, love of nature/humanity, fun, wealth creating, social networking/pleasure, creativeness:

“The energy of the mind is the essence of life.”

Aristotle

...and:

Amor est vitae essentia - Love is the essence of life.

(Robert B. Mackay)

Not forgetting: "PASSION for life.." (Our Obsession).

Oz, I think we should start a study program..

It's All Good.

 

[bdc]

Meanwhile, you've got this one smarmy employee who has been around the office for the past 18 months constantly doing bugger all whilst they tell all and sundry about how clever they are with their personal investing (shares / property / bonds etc) and how they are thinking of cutting back to maybe part-time work cos they don't need a full wage anymore.

Or perhaps you have some devoted employee who really likes their job and may even love it with the reduced work hours, which may even result in an increased productivity from them.

Personally instead of knocking 2 days a week off I'd prefer to knock one day off and do 10-4 for the other 4 days, still spending most of a working week at work but just get to sleep in a little more and get that bit of extra sunlight every afternoon to go to the beach etc.

It can be win/win.

What I find to be the one of the worst thing about our system of employment is there is often little incentive to work efficiently, if you replace someone and do the same job they were doing in half the time, they will just find you more work to do, and if you are really lucky they may give you a tiny pay rise, I'd prefer to go home once I finished. ; D

Anyway, that's how the world works, not much that can/will be done about it, I like my job 80% of the time anyway so I'm rather happy regardless.