Deflation coming to a US near you?

US relieved that inflation under control, but now fear of deflation.

From http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/12/03/beige-book-economy-markets-bonds-cx_md_1203markets25.html

Market Scan: Beige Book Bleak
Maurna Desmond, 12.03.08, 04:05 PM EST
The U.S. economy is as bad as everyone thought, but there's a new worry: deflation.

There was nothing good about the Federal Reserve's Beige Book report on Wednesday. The report from the 12 regional Federal Reserve banks showed a faltering economy, an even the silver lining of low inflation was tarnished: fear of deflation is growing.

The report showed retails sales were generally down, especially cars. It also showed some prices had begun to fall as businesses compete for scarce revenue.
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“The only positive point is that inflation is under control," said Doug Roberts, chief investment strategist at channelcapitalresearch.com. "However, now the Fed is warning about deflation. The evidence pointing to a downward price spiral was "subdued," he said, though there were some decreases in retail and import prices. "But what your not seeing, as of yet, is an across-the-board lowering of prices" which would would indicate that a deflationary cycle had taken hold.

The report, which is an anecdotal compendium of economic conditions around the country, found consumer spending softened in nearly all districts, although tourism was slightly better than might have been expected. Mining and energy production saw a general slide and weakness in comercial real estate markets was also reported in most areas.

Investors may have been expecting bad news, but they scuttled to safety anyway. The two-year note yield was at 0.89%, down from 0.93% Tuesday, while the return on the 10-year note was flat from the day before at 2.70%. Equities were lower much of the day but rallied toward the close.

Guy LeBas, an analyst at Janney Montgomery Scott, said the bad news was in line with the Street's low expectations, but that the gloomy confirmation did spark some buying in the 10–30 year area of the Treasury market. "In terms of spreads, trading has been relatively quiet since the release," he said, "but we’re not seeing acutely negative sentiment from traders and investors, just more of the same chronic pessimism."

The sliding consumer activity is an outgrowth of the U.S. subprime mortgage crisis, which has limited the availability of credit and slowed economic growth around the world. Reined-in spending has put pressure on an already-weakened American economy, where other toxic issues such as rising unemployment, falling home prices and increasing foreclosures fester. The private sector lost 250,000 jobs during November, according to the ADP Employer Services report released Wednesday. (See "ADP Points Way Down On Payrolls Figures")

On Monday the National Bureau of Economic Research reported that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007. (See "Congratulations, It's A Recession")
 
definetly the FED is scared of deflation in US. I definetly think that in US they've got nothing under control, neither inflation then deflation, you never know how and when they'll get out of deflation.
In Australia there is not much difference and the RBA is completely out of control either, just look at their inflation forecast they've done in the last couple of year, my mum would have done better. The RBA is also defenseless against the AU$ exchange rate that would impact inflation or deflation. The only major economy I can see are in control is EU, China and Canada.
 
definetly the FED is scared of deflation in US. I definetly think that in US they've got nothing under control, neither inflation then deflation, you never know how and when they'll get out of deflation.
In Australia there is not much difference and the RBA is completely out of control either, just look at their inflation forecast they've done in the last couple of year, my mum would have done better. The RBA is also defenseless against the AU$ exchange rate that would impact inflation or deflation. The only major economy I can see are in control is EU, China and Canada.
Please get you mum to start posting her inflation forecasts. Also can you give us your inflation forecasts too.... so we can refer back to them over the next 3 yrs... and we'll all be able to see how accurate you were. We'd also be interested to know what you base your forecasts on. Can you tell us what your inflation forecasts have been over the last 10 yrs ?

And finally would you expect the RBA to change their forecasts when external events (over which they have no control) change, or blindly stick to their previous forecasts & ignore the changing world ?
 
This may be a little controversial here but I’m of the opinion that the RBA is doing a pretty good job under the circumstances. I place much more credence in their public statements than most of the other noise that’s around.
 
Three blind mice see how they run

This may be a little controversial here but I’m of the opinion that the RBA is doing a pretty good job under the circumstances. I place much more credence in their public statements than most of the other noise that’s around.

:rolleyes: They did such a great job didn't they? Jacking up interest rates as late as July 2008. Even blind freddy reading braille was aware of the subprime crisis. The last interest rate rise should have been August 2007. Around July 2007 the warning signs were well and truely out on the internet and I would have thought our egg heads in the reserve bank would have been aware of the consequences. Warren Buffet was warning about derivatives way back in 2002.
 
Ditto Keith's implied support for the RBA and ffc's explicit support

I don't always agree with the RBA, but I think that they do a pretty good job under any circumstance and a very good job under most circumstances.

I think most of the people who criticise the RBA would need fresh undies if they had to deal with, even for a brief period of time, the responsibility that comes with being a central bank.
 
Please get you mum to start posting her inflation forecasts. Also can you give us your inflation forecasts too.... so we can refer back to them over the next 3 yrs... and we'll all be able to see how accurate you were. We'd also be interested to know what you base your forecasts on. Can you tell us what your inflation forecasts have been over the last 10 yrs ?

And finally would you expect the RBA to change their forecasts when external events (over which they have no control) change, or blindly stick to their previous forecasts & ignore the changing world ?

Sorry Keithj, I just realised I was a bit of an arrogant ******. :eek:
But inflation in Australia and how politicians deal with it really piss me off.
You are right that on the short term not much can be done to control inflation but in the long term is up to politicians and RBA. In any case shouldn't never been like play at the lottery when forecasting inflation. Politicians can and should always get inflation within their targets, and they have the power to do that if they want.
I didn't like Swan saying the inflation genie is out of the bottle and then doing nothing about it, then getting Glenn Stevens last month in his speach stating that inflation will get within the target while the AU$ just lost over 20% and was keep falling. Then you get the trade deficit that the previous government didn't do anything about.
Anyway what is my inflation forecast?
Well, I really hope Glenn Stevens know what is doing and somewhat I hope Swan too (but I am not confident on him at all, but at least he might be smart enough to get good advice), so my inflation forecast is between 1 and 3% as it is the target. In country like EU I am very confident it will be between 1 and 2% as it is their main target on top of everything, by the way here is the inflation number for EU:
NOV OCT SEPT AUG JULY JUNE MAY APR MAR 12-mo avg*

Total y/y 2.1 3.2 3.6 3.8 4.0 4.0 3.7 3.3 3.6 3.5

-Ex energy, food** -- 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.5 2.5 2.4 2.7 2.3 2.5
please note the core numbers and compare them with Australia (and external factor are not that much different on core numbers)
 
But inflation in Australia and how politicians deal with it really piss me off.

How so?

What would you change?

You are right that on the short term not much can be done to control inflation but in the long term is up to politicians and RBA.

Well, that is actually how the RBA operates - their inflation target is 2-3% over the medium term (which allows for short term volatility either above or below that band)

In any case shouldn't never been like play at the lottery when forecasting inflation.

Yes, but when to take account of the impacts of the exchange rate and other factors (oil prices, etc) and how volatile they can be, the waters get very muddy.

Politicians can and should always get inflation within their targets, and they have the power to do that if they want.

Absolutely.

Politicians wield more power than most people realise.
 
But inflation in Australia and how politicians deal with it really piss me off.
How so?

What would you change?
well simply target the fundamental of the economy to bring in line with long term growth. In particular this include limiting growth in the private debt, in home and other assets prices, in having a proportionate relation between savings and loans without searching from chinese or Japanese money, having a sustainable trade balance and gdp growth. This hasn't happened in the last 10 year. For example might be good to have grant and tax benefit for home prices when they are dropping, but, why home grant and tax benefit when home prices goes through the roof?

In any case shouldn't never been like play at the lottery when forecasting inflation.
Yes, but when to take account of the impacts of the exchange rate and other factors (oil prices, etc) and how volatile they can be, the waters get very muddy
this is like above responsability of government. Do you really believe Government and RBA are not responsabile for a 30% in the AU$? Why the CAN$ wasn't much impacted like the AU$ even if dependent on commodity and resources like Australia?
 
This may be a little controversial here but I’m of the opinion that the RBA is doing a pretty good job under the circumstances. I place much more credence in their public statements than most of the other noise that’s around.


I'm with ya on this one.

The guys who are on that Board are not dummies, and they don't get there by having no financial knowledge.

I also listen to guys like Saul Eslake who are financial experts in charge of very large, public financial companies. They are walking the talk. They would have a bit of an idea.

If anything, the RBA is too conservative and a bit hesitant to react when they really should, hence they have these more dramatic swings in rates.
 
well simply target the fundamental of the economy to bring in line with long term growth.

I've said as much on this forum several times - that the primary aim of the RBA should be fostering economic growth.

I had a discussion last month with Dr Don Brash (fmr Governor of the RBNZ) and I suggested to him that I thought central bankers needed to remind themselves that cpi targeting was a secondary goal to economic growth (the question I posed to him was "has inflation targeting pased it's use by date?") - as you would expect he said it hadn't and went onto explain in some depth why he considered it was still an appropriate modus operandi for central bankers and also that he couldnt see the RBNZ abandoning it any time soon.

I know it's NZ, but I doubt Australia thinks any different.

For example might be good to have grant and tax benefit for home prices when they are dropping, but, why home grant and tax benefit when home prices goes through the roof?

To be fair, the FHOG was introduced in 2000 to allay fears of the impact of the GST - at a time when the last boom was still in it's early gestation. Taking it away as the boom gained momentum would have been a political loser.

But, again I agree, Government's in Australia haven't learned that demand side responses such as FHOG and stamp duty exemptions only fan the flames of the property market fire.

As for tax benefits and property... remember Keating scrapped those in 1985 > rents soared and public housing waiting lists got very long > in 1987 Keating reinstated them and make them even more generous

this is like above responsability of government. Do you really believe Government and RBA are not responsabile for a 30% in the AU$? Why the CAN$ wasn't much impacted like the AU$ even if dependent on commodity and resources like Australia?

You're far more into this currency stuff than I am.

Our economy is stronger, our government more credit worthy and our interest rates are higher yet the $AUD has lost significant ground against the $USD in recent months. For me it defies logic.
 
Our economy is stronger, our government more credit worthy and our interest rates are higher yet the $AUD has lost significant ground against the $USD in recent months. For me it defies logic.

I think there was a flight to the safety of T-bills, in this interview http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=mesJRzkUHlU&feature=related cant remember which part Jim Rogers says liquidation people covering there shorts on the US dollar help push it higher but warns he is going to move his money out of US dollars, If the US defaults your going to see a dollar collapse.
 
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