Dividing Fences Act - "Urgent" work

BuildingBlocks

BuildingBlocks

Morning all,

I have a new neighbour moving into a house next door to an IP.

She claims that the fence requires "Urgent" work and has quoted and booked for the fence to be fully replaced next Monday and is demanding that I pay half.

Urgent work bypasses the need for the proper Fencing Notices/Order process.

- Fence looks in photos to be in poor condition, however I am not rejecting that it may need repair, I am only arguing that this is not urgent work.

- This has been wear and tear over a number of years, no sudden event such as storm or flood has placed it into this state. It is only urgent now as this is a brand new person in the house.

- She claims that if she had her grandchildren over they may bump the props currently holding up the fence and it may fall and injure them. Note: They do not live with her, they would only be visiting and she would be placing them into the scenario where they may possibly get injured if she let them into the rear yard.

- Her dog would be able to escape the yard with the state that the fence is in. Note: Although both her and the dog do not yet live at the residence, we may have options to replace the 5 or so missing palings or she may be able to keep the dog inside until I have been provided time to respond to the fencing notice.

Questions:

1) Can anyone provide any previous rulings on "Urgent" work?

2) Does "Urgent" work cover full replacements, or only repairs? Note: I have not been provided sufficient time to investigate repairs, nor have they been quoted on by her, the fence is just being replaced..

I have not been provided adequate time to respond to the Fence Notice (served 1/1/12, so I have until 1/2/12 to reply), so the only argument here is whether or not the work is really urgent.

The fence is being replaced next Monday,
 
Why not call her directly, tell her you are happy to check prices, get quotes etc but don't want to be bulldozed into the "urgent work" situation.

Perhaps she has wrongly assumed you will be difficult about it, or may refuse at all to go halves in the fence.

Communication could be the best thing here. Perhaps she has had similar circumstances in the past and has decided not to let you refuse to negotiate with her, and hence jumped straight in, boots and all with the "urgent" thing.

I think she has got off on the wrong foot, but maybe a chat with her will mean more time to get quotes and get the neighbour relationship onto a better footing.
 
If you were prepared to replace the fence anyway perhaps tell her you will pay half the "standard" fence for the area as you would have ageed to had you been approached in the accepted manner.

I do know we were not obliged to pay one cent when our IP neighbour started work without consulting us first (but we did pay half of a standard fence). Not sure if the "urgent" tag overrides this?
 
wylie said:
If you were prepared to replace the fence anyway perhaps tell her you will pay half the "standard" fence for the area as you would have ageed to had you been approached in the accepted manner.

I do know we were not obliged to pay one cent when our IP neighbour started work without consulting us first (but we did pay half of a standard fence). Not sure if the "urgent" tag overrides this?
Click to expand...

Yep, the "Urgent" overwrites the need for agreement or the issuing of a Fencing Notice. However from what I can find "Urgent" is mainly dealing with repairs to make safe. This is the whole fence being ripped out and replaced.

To make matters worse my agency were on Christmas break up until last week, so we only found out about the notice 7 days ago. However forgetting that fact I still have until February 1st to reply based on the date of the notice.

I have given up trying to reason with the new neighbour, particularly as there was legal action mentioned in the first letter and the reply to everything (both my emails and calls from my agent) has been along the lines of "I don't care, it is getting replaced on Monday and you need to pay half".

We will be definitely off to the courts, which doesn't bother me as I am almost certain that a ruling will be found in my favour, just need further legal backup, preferably a documented previous ruling of a similar nature :)
 
Well, with that attitude I'd also take it to the courts. Why on earth would this person not talk to you first instead of getting you off side from the start?

Good luck. Would love to hear the outcome. Sometimes you just have to stand your ground and teach them some manners :D
 
wylie said:
Well, with that attitude I'd also take it to the courts. Why on earth would this person not talk to you first instead of getting you off side from the start?

Good luck. Would love to hear the outcome. Sometimes you just have to stand your ground and teach them some manners :D
Click to expand...


Your guess is as good as mine!

Will remember to update this thread in a couple of months if/when she takes me to the land board or courts for the money :)
 
wylie said:
Why on earth would this person not talk to you first instead of getting you off side from the start?
Click to expand...

Oodles of reasons ;

  • She's a lawyer, it's how she operates and deals with everything and couldn't care less about getting the neighbour off-side
  • She's a powerful businesswoman and used to getting her way
  • She's a wealthy grandmother and nothing stands between her and the safety of her grandchildren
  • She's had plenty of experience in this area, 8 fence disputes before and won every one of them
  • Her husband is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • Her son is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • Her brother is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • Her brother-in-law is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • She agreed with the Vendor in the contract of sale that the Vendor would pay for a new fence - no skin off her nose.
  • She's already approached the Tenant kindly and got palmed off and now she's not happy
  • She's got a collection of free range guinea pigs that haven't arrived yet
  • Her husband is a registrar at the Supreme Court and will have you for breakfast
  • She grew up in Singapore, the daughter of a wealthy ex-pat, and always gets her way
  • Fifty years ago she got attacked and is still highly conscious of any security breaches
....I could go on.....
 
Does the quoted price sound "right" , most fencing places will give a ball park per metre figure.

If the price is unreasonable then I would be getting written quotes to prove it when I get to court.

I would also be getting a lot of photos of the existing fence before it gets knocked down to support any doubt of urgency

Maybe her rellies are fence builders and need work :(
 
Dazz said:
Oodles of reasons ;

  • She's a lawyer, it's how she operates and deals with everything and couldn't care less about getting the neighbour off-side
  • She's a powerful businesswoman and used to getting her way
  • She's a wealthy grandmother and nothing stands between her and the safety of her grandchildren
  • She's had plenty of experience in this area, 8 fence disputes before and won every one of them
  • Her husband is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • Her son is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • Her brother is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • Her brother-in-law is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply
  • She agreed with the Vendor in the contract of sale that the Vendor would pay for a new fence - no skin off her nose.
  • She's already approached the Tenant kindly and got palmed off and now she's not happy
  • She's got a collection of free range guinea pigs that haven't arrived yet
  • Her husband is a registrar at the Supreme Court and will have you for breakfast
  • She grew up in Singapore, the daughter of a wealthy ex-pat, and always gets her way
  • Fifty years ago she got attacked and is still highly conscious of any security breaches
....I could go on.....
Click to expand...

Surely you could have come up with some more... :p

What about her DAUGHTER is a fencing contractor and can do it cheaply?

Didn't you see the recent thread about men/women? :eek:

Why can only husband, son, brother or brother-in-law be fencing contractors? :p:D

Maybe she is just a cranky old b!tch :D
 
The fence is stuffed, it is already held up by props, get over it. Unless you are objecting on the grounds of hardship or cost just get on with it. The fence will be there for 20-30 years. It's able to be capitalised anyway & the demo is a straight deduction.

What sort of agent was closed until the 9th? Pretty slack on their part considering there is an obligation for a business to trade on every working day.

You could always get your own back by putting in the tenants from hell! ;)
 
I'm with Scott regarding just having to get a fence built, especially if the original is propped up and you have said you know you will have to pay for half.

The only thing I would be worried about is what our IP neighbours tried on with us, and that is that they wanted a fence that cost four times the "average" for the area, and pompously told us we would pay half.

So, if they are just wanting a "regular" fence, you know it is necessary, so pay it. But if they are trying to bulldoze you with a Taj Mahal of fences, then you need to get your own quotes so that you can pay half of what is considered "standard" to the area. That is as far as your obligation goes.
 
Scott No Mates said:
The fence is stuffed, it is already held up by props, get over it. Unless you are objecting on the grounds of hardship or cost just get on with it. The fence will be there for 20-30 years. It's able to be capitalised anyway & the demo is a straight deduction.

What sort of agent was closed until the 9th? Pretty slack on their part considering there is an obligation for a business to trade on every working day.
Click to expand...

I disagree about getting over it.

It's not a money issue.

It is a new neighbour who wants to dodge around the proper processes and have a brand new fence in place for when they move in, 2 days after the new fence is built.

Taking into account that the new owner is only at the risk of safety (in her own opinion) from the time that she is scheduled to move into the property; the state of the fence would have been identical when she exchanged on the property. Assuming a 6 week settlement period she would have had sufficient notice to follow the standard fencing notice process.

My interpretation of the law is that the urgent clause is in the act so that necessary repairs can be made when an unexpected event occurs that renders the existing structure unsafe. The clause should not be abused to fully replace an existing fence when you want a brand new fence but haven't given a neighbouring owner the legal time allowed to respond.

To be completely blunt, I will not be bullied by someone who thinks that they are above the law. :)

What if it were a 20 year old townhouse where 30 tiles were found broken on the roof. One owner decides that they will just replace the roof (and change the type of tiles) before investigating the cost of repairing 30 tiles which may be only 10% of the cost?

This is a tactic being used so that they have complete control of a fence in a property that they have just purchased. I suspect that they fall somewhere on Dazz's list, just not sure where yet.

RE: Agencies closed. Loads shut down for the Christmas period. They are still available on call. Not really relevant in this case though, I am happy to go by the date that the letter was served, even though I didn't actually get it for another 1-2 weeks after.
 
If that's the case, simply refute the 'urgent' request ie instruct your agent to write to the purchaser on the grounds that this is not urgent work, that the fence is still serviceable and to provide comparable quotes for your consideration (as per the standard form of notice). If she doesn't like it, then she can pay for the whole fence or run the process through mediation.
 
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