Do you need to leave 10% deposit when making an offer in Victoria????

Hello!!!!

My question is this

Do you need to leave 10% deposit when making an offer in Victoria????

The reason I ask is that I have just returned from the real estate agent where my baby sister-in-law has put in an offer on her first property.

The agent has stated that under the new REIV code of conduct potential purchasers _MUST_ leave a 10% deposit, paid to the trust account of the RE agent.

I had never heard of this and have made offers on properties in Victoria before and this has never happened to me.

I put this to the agent and she said it has come in within the last 12 months. I then asked her to give me a URL or tell me the number or title of the _specific_ legislation or code of conduct from the REIV........she just said it was on the web-site.

So I have just surfed over there and read what I can find and surprise, surprise no mention of this 10% deposit BS.

Can any of you victorian based or knowledgeable RE's please enlighten me.

Thanks

TC
 
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Hi Captain !

This is 10% deposit BS as you said - nothing more. You don't have to leave any deposit until your offer accepted. 10 % usually the figure in the contract to be paid on acceptance, but even that is negotiable especially if the purchase amount is large.
I’ve been asked once for a deposit on offer submission long time ago, but we were talking $50-$100. I said that have only $20 on me - agent wasn’t interested taking it ( probably it was too hard to write a receipt for this amount) and we continued without any BS deposits.

Tell the agent you checked with REIV and this is not required. Basically put a bit of pressure on her. The best way is just to submit a written offer on the property.
 
Hiya

As I am aware a contract can only be binding where a consideration has been given. Commonly a deposit is regardedas he consideration in the property purchase.

This can be ONE dollar. I cant see any government or Institute making laws which fiddle around with a free market in such a way.

Ta'

Rolf
 
MAD as hell and not going to take it anymore!!!!

That makes me so MAD!!!!!!!!

I'll be speaking with the principal of the agent next week.
 
I've previously been asked for a "good faith" deposit on offer- say $1000.

I have had an offer accpeted- and then had the vendor withdrawn.

It was bad enough having paid building/pest inspections. If I'd had to pay 10% deposit, it would have cost a lot more.

If there was a law like this, it would have been a law against frivolous offers.

But I've seen properties with six offers. Would every preson have been required to leave a 10% deposit with the agent?

What a nice little earner!
 
Hiya Capitain.

Unless things have changed since I did the property law course, the rules are as follows:

The deposit can be anything. Property contracts are the only contracts upholdable without any consideration, as your signature is considered valuable consideration.

That being said, the regulations say that if you purchase a property and then don't go through with the contract (without appropriately terminating it) you will be liable to pay the vendor 10% of the purchase price, PLUS the differrence between the purchase price and any subsequent purchase price (assuming it is lower) PLUS their legal fees.

This presents a problem, there is a case where the agent didn't take a 10% deposit and then the purchaser pulled out, so the vendor sued the agent for not protecting their interest by getting the 10% deposit, and the vendor won.

This is why the default deposit rate is 10%. You can negotiate lower, or higher, but this explains why you are always asked for 10%

This agent may have had a problem with a purchaser pulling out and not being able to fulfil the requirement of remitting the 10% to the vendor, and may have instituted an inhouse rule not to accept contracts that vary from this.

I am not aware of any new legislation saying that a 10% deposit HAS to be taken, although there are dumber laws... ;)

anyway, hope this helps,

asy :D
 
Originally posted by asy
What do you mean?

asy :D
Asy,

"The_Captain" asked about a 10% deposit payable "when making an offer".

Is what you are saying based on exchange of contracts?

What these people are (or seem to be) asking for is 10% on "offer"- not "exchange".

So if 10 people were making an offer, each one has to leave a deposit of 10%.

So the agent holds the 10% for all 10 until exchange?

Hence the "nice little earner" comment.

But I would suspect that the 10% deposit when making an offer is not correct.
 
Originally posted by the_captain
Hello!!!!

My question is this

Do you need to leave 10% deposit when making an offer in Victoria????

NO, Definately NOT


The agent has stated that under the new REIV code of conduct potential purchasers _MUST_ leave a 10% deposit, paid to the trust account of the RE agent.

Furthermore....No such code of conduct and deposit doesn't even have to be paid to RE Agents Trust Account, it can be paid directly to a solicitors trust account where it must be held until such time as one of the parties is entitled to receive it.

I had never heard of this and have made offers on properties in Victoria before and this has never happened to me.

I put this to the agent and she said it has come in within the last 12 months. I then asked her to give me a URL or tell me the number or title of the _specific_ legislation or code of conduct from the REIV........she just said it was on the web-site.[

So I have just surfed over there and read what I can find and surprise, surprise no mention of this 10% deposit BS.


Don't bother looking for it on any web site, It aint there.

Can any of you victorian based or knowledgeable RE's please enlighten me.

Thanks

TC

Let's not forget, it is the vendor that has the right to determine what amount of deposit is to be paid, not the RE Agent.
Usually a vendor is guided by what the RE Agent says but nevertheless if the vendor agrees to a deposit of $1 or on the other hand demands a deposit of 20%, then the vendor has the right to accept or decline any offer that is presented to them.
Ultimately, the vendor can call the shots, it is after all their property. At the end of the day, the RE Agent is only engaged to find and introduce a purchaser for the property, the vendor decides what price, terms and deposit they will accept.

regards
 
Originally posted by geoffw
Asy,

"The_Captain" asked about a 10% deposit payable "when making an offer".

Is what you are saying based on exchange of contracts?

What these people are (or seem to be) asking for is 10% on "offer"- not "exchange".

So if 10 people were making an offer, each one has to leave a deposit of 10%.

So the agent holds the 10% for all 10 until exchange?

Hence the "nice little earner" comment.

But I would suspect that the 10% deposit when making an offer is not correct.

Geoff, sorry mate, no nice little earner here, In Victoria, all deposits received by RE Agents must be banked into the RE Agents Trust Account by the end of the next business day. Tis a major contravention of the act if this is not done.

Interest on any monies earnt that are in a RE Agents Trust account are sent directly to the Estate Agents Guarantee Fund, the RE Agent never sees a penny of this interest, furthermore, bank fees for operating this Trust Account are charged against the RE Agents General Account, so therefore it actually costs the RE Agent money to operate the Trust Account.
So there is no nice little earner, more of a big pain in the butt.

regards
 
Thanks Jakk,

I wasn't here yesterday morning, then last night the forum was dead, so I didn't answer... But Thanks for answering EXACTLY as I would have :D :D :D

Geoffw, I am extremely dissapointed in your suggestion. As Jakk said, we don't 'earn' a cent, AND pay for every transaction through the account.

Please check next time, people will believe what you say, and the last thing I need is another falsehood going around about how bad agents are.

asy :D
 
G'day

When I was doing the licensing course, there was quite a bit of discussion regarding the payment of deposits.

Contract law does not require a deposit.

The Contract stands alone. Should one party - not necessarily a purchaser, remember contract law governs all contracts - default, the other party can sue for feasance (completion) of the contract.

The Sale of Land Act in particular, and the Property Law Act, govern the way and manner in which sales of real estate may occur.

The payment of a deposit is common practice primarily because most property transactions are conducted with the help of an intermediary, that is, a licensed estate agent. The agent acts as stakeholder only, and has no interest in the deposit money unless and until the contracts are unconditional and the vendor has answered any questions (requisitions) which the purchaser may have regarding the vendors right to title and any other matters affecting the property eg fencing notices, road widening etc

The purchaser may then, at their discretion, allow the agent to then account for the sale to the vendor, withhold their commission and any authorised expenses, and forward the balance of the deposit to the vendor ahead of the actual settlement time.

This procedure allows the vendor access to funds - they may, after all, need the money to put a deposit on another property, and for the agent to be paid. Some settlements run for months(180 day settlements for example) and it would impose an unfair burden on the agency to have to wait until settlement to be paid for work done and legally completed when the contracts become unconditonal.

As for the payment of deposit, there are two parts to a contract. The Promise and the Consideration.

The Promise is for example, I will erect a fence on your property.

The Consideration may, for example, be that you will 'pay' me with a spring calf.

How, then, would you pay me a deposit? The calf is not yet born.

In property matters, the Promise is that I will release to you the title for the land, and all improvements thereon, and that ownership will pass to you.

The Consideration is that you will pay me $100,000 for the property.

If there is no intermediary, or I don't require a deposit from you, or you have no cash money etc, the exchange of signed contracts is sufficient under the law.

S. 123 of the Instruments Act details which transactions require the agreement to be evidenced in writing. For the sale of property it is mandatory, but the contract can be on the back of an envelope provided that all legislative requirements are met - name, address, description of the property, etc.

No Consideration, no settlement, no title. Simple as that.

However, if I relied on the Contract and eg refused other offers or committed myself to the purchase of another property, and you failed to complete the contract, I may consider suing you for feasance, or some other form of financial penalty. But this is getting off the track regarding deposits.

The various acts detail that IF a deposit is paid, how it shall be paid, to whom, and their responsibilities etc

The custom of paying 'sincerity' deposits is just that, a custom, and not mandatory.

But as has been previously stated, the vendor has their property on the market and it is they who determines the price, terms and conditions of sale. I bought the 'medical centre' at public auction with $1,000 deposit. The Auctioner read the contracts aloud to the crowd, and stated 10% on the signing thereof, etc, but I had asked privately before the auction started that if I was the purchaser I could only pay $1,000 on the day. The Vendor agreed to that in principle prior to commencement of proceedings and so that is what I paid on the day, with the balance of the 10% seven days later. As an unconditional sale, the agent could then account the sale and everybody was happy.

By the way, I have seen some agencies advertising that they are 'Licensed with the REIV'. What poppycock! they may be a 'Member' but the REIV, or the REIQ, or any other industry association is just that - a professional club and lobby group, nothing more.

Licensing is the responsibility of the (in Victoria) Department of Justice, Consumer Affairs.

Industry bodies may have 'Codes of Practice', but these are voluntary. The Estate Agents Act has Regulations which exceed codes of practice and which are legally binding on the agent.

Sales staff with not much experience may simply pass on gossip which they have heard but only half understood. If you think that something peculiar is being said to you, politely ask to speak with the licensed Agent. Have a bit of tact, don't insult the rep, but after all even the contractual obligations are part of your Due Diligence so don't rush into signing papers and then complain later that things got messy.

You are quite within your rights to take the contracts away to peruse yourself, or to take to your conveyancer or solicitor.

Should you decide to seek legal advice on the Contracts, remember that this will void your 'Cooling Off' period, and you might (might!) be gazumped while you are out of the agent's office.

And just a final word regarding Trust Accounts. Even if you are buying / selling privately ie directly with the other party, deposits must be held in a trust account until the sale is unconditional etc. It is my understanding that conveyancers do not have this type of trust account. The Act allows that any endorsed Trust account - solicitor, accountant, estate agent, may hold the funds. In class, we were amazed to hear that anyone can walk in off the street and ask an agent to accept money into their trust account to fulfil these conditions. None of us had heard of this before, and we couldn't imagine too many agents being willing to do this, given that they bear the costs of the account which cannot be redeemed.

Anyway, Captain, happy property hunting!

cheers

Kristine
 
Originally posted by asy
Geoffw, I am extremely dissapointed in your suggestion. As Jakk said, we don't 'earn' a cent, AND pay for every transaction through the account.

Please check next time, people will believe what you say, and the last thing I need is another falsehood going around about how bad agents are.

asy :D
Asy,

I'm sorry. I apologise unreservedly. Plase don't send the lawyers :D

But we're talking hypotheticals aren't we?

I was talking about a 10% deposit payable on OFFER, which was the subject of the first post. I'm not talking about a deposit on exchange.

But it has been established that 10% deposit on offer is not correct. I did state in my post that "I suspect it's not correct"

If a 10% deposit on offer did apply, then it would be something completely new, so new rules may have been applied.

I was completely wrong about the agent earning anything on any deposit. My apologies for that, and thanks for setting me straight on that Jakk.
 
I bought an investment property here in Victoria a few weeks back and the Real Estate Agent gladly accepted a 5% deposit. Of course they were after the standard 10% deposit....but this was negotiated down very quickly.


GlennM.
 
Yoh! Mondie

Don't encourage me!

Imagine what I'm like with a few sherries under the belt!

Oh - I noticed a block of 15 x 1 bedroom flats advertised last weekend in 'The Age' for sale in Sale. Opposite park, fully tenanted etc

Perhaps you may care to open another thread regarding investment opportunities in Sale? I (and perhaps others) would be very interested in rentals as a % against sale price, vacancies, major industries etc

I used to work for NDIS (1970s early 1980s), and we had an 'office' in Raymond Street. There seems to be some very good quality property in Sale, but how stable is the workforce and is the population shrinking, growing or about the same?

There is only so much research that can be done on the web, it helps to get an insider's view on the local scene.

Cheers

Kristine
 
Hi Kristine,

So you've done your time in Sale hey? What's the NDIS then, l cant work it out!

Sale is SLOWLY growing, unfortunately being held back because it is largely landlocked. Sounds crazy for a country town to be landlocked, but we have a flood plain running along the south side of town, a RAAF base to the east which restricts growth due to noise etc, leaving growth only North along the highway and west towards Wurruk (which in itself is limited due to the river and flood areas). Lack of land has lead to a lot of people buying in Maffra and Stratford, hence Maffra has benefited greatly over the past few years. Longford has also bounced along since a new 'floodproof' road and several bridges were finished last year, so the area is doing well as a whole.

House prices here are quite high for a country town, and rental yields have fallen back as a result. Positively geared property would be hard to find at present. Land values have doubled since we bought our block and built less than 2 years ago so we have benefited from the boom as much as anywhere else. To be honest we have followed the market too closely as we are not keen on buying investment properties here for reasons below (although that block of flats you mention sounds interesting). We take notice of the RE section in the local rag but that's about it. Much of the property is tied up in DHA leases with fairly average returns, especially with the high 'commission's retained by the DHA.

Industry wise our major industries are the RAAF base, the Oil & Gas Industry (Esso) with all its associated service companies, a Nylex plastic factory, the Dairy Industry (which is a shocking state at the moment with the drought), the Base hospital and the Fulham Prison. The average pay packet in Sale would be very high due to the well paid Oil & Gas industry which is probably the number 1 employer.

There is a strong rental market because of all the defence force personnel who travel through the place as the RAAF base here is primarily a training facility. At the last election Howard promised that the base was to expand further with the relocation of the Pt Cook Officer training facility to east Sale. However since then we have had Sept 11, and the Afghanistan and Iraq wars so there has been a lot of speculation that the expansion wont go ahead due to changing priorities. Apparently there will be an announcement in the next couple of weeks from none other than Howard confirming it will happen, but l am still not convinced. So the property market has a lot of expectation built into it from this expansion, if it doesn't happen then prices will soften. Hence the reason we wouldn't invest here, having our PPOR is enough. l have heard all sorts of rumours over the past 12 months, even the possibility of the base closing in 5-10 years, so we look elsewhere for investment. But then l have also heard that Pierce base in Perth may close in the medium term and relocate here, so who really knows? If the expansion happens, and further expansion in the future, then the RE market here will continue to grow strongly as there is a very real problem with supply. For us its the good ole all eggs in one basket deal, we dont bother with investing here. If the RAAF closed, this place would DIE and take a long time to get back on its feet. In 1991 Esso closed its main Office here and moved over 300 well paid employees to Melbourne, that gutted Sale for most of the nineties.

Lakes Entrance is a place that is really starting to be 'discovered'. Prices there are moving and moving fast, an excellent place to invest IMHO. That's where l would be looking in preference to Sale.

Cheers Simon
 
The last place I bought, I put down a 2% deposit. But in order to get that I had to build a good replationship with the vendor (it was a private sale).

He had to feel sure I wasn't going to back out.

I've heard that wrappers build a relationship with the agents, as they buy so many, and put down $500 as a deposit.

Jas
 
Originally posted by asy
Thanks Jakk,

I wasn't here yesterday morning, then last night the forum was dead, so I didn't answer... But Thanks for answering EXACTLY as I would have :D :D :D

Geoffw, I am extremely dissapointed in your suggestion. As Jakk said, we don't 'earn' a cent, AND pay for every transaction through the account.

Please check next time, people will believe what you say, and the last thing I need is another falsehood going around about how bad agents are.

asy :D

Asy - are you fishing ?
 
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