FHOG - It's all happened before.

I have been pondering what is going to happen to property prices when the FHOG finishes at the end of June. I really don't need to think much I just need to look at what happened in 1988 in the UK for an exact parallel.

In March 1988 the then chancellor, Nigel Lawson, announced that he would abolish the double tax relief on mortgages where unmarried couples bought a house. It was a bit of a loophole but essentially both people could claim their own £30,000 allowance until 31st July 1988 after which there would only be one allowance per property. Many couples who would not normally have considered buying a house jumped on the housing ladder for fear of missing out. It was like a feeding frenzy and prices rocketed during the last few month before the tax relief was abolished. Gazumping was rife and these poor couples would buy anything just to get the benefit of the tax relief.

So guess what happened on the 1st August 1988 - Sales pretty much stopped altogether. Anyone who was going to buy had already bought. The whole property market ground to a halt as the majority of the people buying for the tax relief were first time buyers. Without them the party was over. The 1st August 1988 was when the property bubble burst and then the rot set in with prices dropping over the next 4 years, in some cases to less than 50% of the original sales values with new build flats.

This all happened after the 1987 stock market crash. - See the parallels.

Here in Australia we have an almost identical situation with the FHOG. Because the incentive may be withdrawn at the end of June we have all the first time buyers trying to get on the housing ladder. Anyone who has any vague ideas of buying a house is out there looking. The Real Estate agencies and developers are out there targeting this group. You can go to seminars and at every opportunity Rudd tells us how he is helping working australians with the increased grants.

So what is the likely outcome? Firstly, there is talk that it might be extended but you can bet your bottom dollar that the property salespeople are putting the fear of god into these first timers to get them to sign in case it is abolished and we won't know until it's too late. So come the 1st July, regardless of if the grant is extended or not, there will be no buyers. Just as in the UK, anyone who was going to buy had already bought. If it is extended there may be a sigh of relief amongst the ones left out and they will put their feet up and say "we have more time to consider this now, there is no hurry to buy"

We have also just had a stock market crash as in 1987.

Which way for property prices anyone?
 
It's like the time we went over to Shelbyville during the war, I wore an onion on my belt....which was the style at the time...you couldnt get those white ones, you could only get those big yellow ones.................now where was I........oh yeah, the important thing was I was wearing an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time, you couldnt get those...

Oh and on topic, see also pre-GST boom and the joys of Western Sydney in 05/06. Personal view is that suburbs heavily "exposed" to FHOG this time around will see a lot of the latter experience in due course.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see the FHB boost disappear and for it to drop back to $7,000. The whole point of the boost was to stimulate demand, and it did that. And yep, if it comes off, demand in the sub $500K band will drop away. So will prices, naturally.

I've got a young guy at work here. He and his girlfriend are looking to buy a flat (Sydney - inner west) around $380K. He said he went to an open on the weekend and there was a queue down two flights of stairs to look at a flat.

A mate of mine just sold a flat - Sydney beachside. The agent thought $360K was a good price to aim for. They put it on the market at $379 and got an offer (which they took) in the first week for $391K.

I was explaining to the young guy at work that if the FHB grant goes back to $7,000, the resulting price drops will probably be way more than that because demand will disappear in an instant.

But of course, the FHB boost might get extended if the government are worried about the sentiment drop if it goes.

Scott
 
But of course, the FHB boost might get extended if the government are worried about the sentiment drop if it goes
The govt is v. worried about a sentiment drop. House prices in UK & US are falling, sentiment is v. poor, their consumers aren't spending, they're heading for a deep recession. Rudd wants to prevent that from happening here at all costs. If there's no big improvement in sentiment then the FHOG & boost will continue for another (never to be repeated :rolleyes:) 6 months. The public won't mind no growth in housing for 5-10yrs, but it will mind if it sees its' nest egg evaporating a la US/UK.

Sure - the FHOG is a stopgap measure, but that's what the govt is there for - to dampen the peaks & toughs - reduce volatility. The masses like certainty or low volatility. We're all happier & more productive if we're sure about the future.
 
Well, I'm certainly more happy and productive when the future is sure. If the FHB boost is extended, when they announce it some of the heat will go out of that part of the market because the urgency won't be there. Either way, I reckon the young bloke here is better off holding back rather than joining the frenzy now.
 
the pre-GST boom was gigantic in WA for new home construction. i was a trainee draftie back then, and they were scrabbling for anyone and all who could operate a computer to come in and help out with CAD work.

i remember in 2000 it went dead - like someone slammed a kitchen mixer tap off.

D_E_D - dead. :p

but - there was SO much work backed up in the system, all requiring pre-starts and changes and contracts not-yet-drawn that it was still as busy as before.

then interest rates tanked after the tech crash. hell, even we bought a property. the time it took to run thru the backlog meant we were run off our feet during the slow months and landed running when the low IR boom of the early noughties' took effect.

so, you see, it's not ALL bad. remember, houses take TIME to administer and build. buying and developing now will see you selling in 24-30 months.

can YOU tell me what it will be like in 2-3 years time?
 
can YOU tell me what it will be like in 2-3 years time?


Of course i can!!

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I've got a young guy at work here. He and his girlfriend are looking to buy a flat (Sydney - inner west) around $380K. He said he went to an open on the weekend and there was a queue down two flights of stairs to look at a flat.

A mate of mine just sold a flat - Sydney beachside. The agent thought $360K was a good price to aim for. They put it on the market at $379 and got an offer (which they took) in the first week for $391K.

I hear ya. Its as if these used to be renters who lined up 2 flights of stairs down are now all joining the herd and buying. The right trade would've been picking these cookie cutters up for a song a couple of years ago, slowly reno'ing them up and turning a quick $60-$80k in 2 years. 8-10 of them and you'd be laughing now. All done in a bear Syd market! Again, Harry Hindsight is a rich man.
 
If the FHB boost is extended, when they announce it some of the heat will go out of that part of the market because the urgency won't be there. Either way, I reckon the young bloke here is better off holding back rather than joining the frenzy now.
Interesting question..... if he has sufficient deposit without needing FHOG then probably he's better off waiting till the frenzy dies down a little. OTOH, if he can't get a deposit together without needing the FHOG, then he may well be better off buying today at a potentially higher price.
 
FHOG will stay.
I think there's no doubt the FHOG will stay as it has for years. The Q is will the Boost part be extended beyond 30 June? I'm starting to think it won't - too much stimulus in some parts already. As an investor, I'd be happy to see it go - so we can get some sanity into deals under $500K. As an Australian I'm happy to see it stay and young ppl get into their own home.
 
100% confident that the FHOG will stay as is...no question.

its the only thing currently keeping property ticking over and builders in some kind of work.

without this grant being made available the housing sector would be in a far worse position than it is currently.

im super confident there will be no reduction in the offer to FHBers at least for this year and into 2010.

im hoping they pull the plug on it for my own benefit so prices slide quicker but being a realist theres zero chance a labor govt will tighten the noose around the building industry further.....
 
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