Future party leader

Discussion in 'Coffee Lounge' started by lizzie, 16th Jun, 2015.

  1. Phar Lap

    Phar Lap Member

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    Ninetynine
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Member

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    "Scumbag" is pretty harsh.

    Morrison has achieved one spectacular success - stopped the boats, and saved potentially thousands more lives into the bargain.

    Whether you vote for him or not; you've gotta give credit where it is due, don't you reckon?

    Is your view based on your political stance (Labor?), or has he done something/not done something that really offended you?
     
  3. sanj

    sanj Member

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    Did u miss the part where I said I've always voted for libs in fed election, unfortunately including last one? I've only voted for labor in either 1 or 2 state elections.




    Scumbag is nowhere near harsh enough to describe him, I guess we must have entirely different definition of spectacular success.

    I truly detest the man, we need less people like him in the world.
     
  4. sanj

    sanj Member

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    BV - I present up you your spectacular success
     
  5. BayView

    BayView Member

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    Merely an opinion of the man, based on a different view.

    I guess some will call him extreme.

    These are often those who are too soft, and the result of being soft was well over 1000 lives lost and thousands in detention.

    Sometimes hard decisions about various things need to be made. They won't be popular.

    But; another 2000 lives (or maybe more if Labor had another 6 years) saved gets my tick.

    Let's sit back and see what the record for the man is by the end of the Libs' crack at things.

    Incidentally; I haven't yet heard Labor congratulate him or the Libs for this result with the boats and lives...not once.

    So far, all we have heard is a lot of whinging about the supposed treatment of detainees, supposed suicides and so forth.
     
  6. sanj

    sanj Member

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    Pls don't pretend you support his humanitarian efforts, becausr they dont exist. Lives are not being saved, just because the official stats of lives lost at sea have dropped doesn't mean people aren't dying, they're just not recorded by us.

    Paying people tp turn around boats, reducing our refugee intake, being anti gay marriage, lacking empathy and being a general scumbag - we clearly like different things in politicians and human beings by the sounds of it

    I consider him to be an abject failure not a spectacular success

    Btw, supposed treatment of refugees and supposed suicides? Seriously? I guess Ivan Milan only supposedly killed people right?
     
  7. willair

    willair xx

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    Sanj,it's good we live in a free thinking country,some places in the world and I can think of several,if you made statements like that,the black Mercedes would pull up in the carpark next too you and that would be the last anyone would see of you..
     
  8. sanj

    sanj Member

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    Yes, it's good that we can have a public opinion like I do. Doesn't change the fact that it's true though, he is a detestable human being
     
  9. BayView

    BayView Member

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    I guess we will need to go out to the detention centres and see what the conditions are actually like.

    From my understanding, they get health care, a bed, food, the kids get some schooling...

    I did hear though that one (or more?) detainee/s complained about no air con?

    I'm all for helping folks out, but can we please get a bit more realistic...

    I don't know about you, but if I was running from a murderous regime etc, and got on a boat, came here uninvited, and were lucky enough to make it, and get housed for free by the Country I was running to for help, I think I might be pretty happy about that, and maybe a little bit grateful..

    It is not meant to be the Hilton. It is a safe haven from those who they run from.

    I appreciate it takes time to process folks - especially if they arrive without paperwork, but come on, Sanj.

    There's just no pleasing some people.

    I'm certainly interested to hear of these examples you cite that verify him as the devil reincarnate.

    I guess we could revert back to the previous detention system to keep you happy?

    Another option for those folks would be...don't come here; stay in Indonesia?

    I applaud Scott Morrison; brave enough to make some tough decisions.
     
  10. sanj

    sanj Member

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    Oh yes, he should be knighted for his services to humanity.

    Give me a break

    Happy to agree to disagree here, we clearly have different values
     
  11. LibGS

    LibGS Member

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    The Royal Commission into abuses at the detention centres will sort it all out. I look forward to seeing Morrison and Abbott squirm as they front it.
     
  12. Perp

    Perp Member

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    There's no point being pleased about these lives being saved unless we know that it's more lives than have been lost in illegal Indonesian hideouts, in other countries' waters after having been turned back, or when they are forced to return home to where they were being persecuted.

    If this was about being humanitarian, it would be far cheaper to pay for return airfares for every single asylum seeker, process them onshore, and send back those who don't qualify for asylum. (Which is around 10%.)
    They don't get schooling, and doctors have been saying for years that the healthcare is woefully inadequate. In any case, the whole point is not about detention conditions, but that it's illegal for us to detain them at all. It is a fundamental principle going back to the Magna Carte that people aren't imprisoned in the absence of committing a crime. These people have committed no crime.

    Further, they are not even Australia's detainees, are not being processed by Australia, have zero rights under the Australian legal system, and are prohibited from being settled in Australia, whether their claims are valid or not. (And recall that approximately 90% of them are found to have legitimate claims.) They are being processed by Nauru and PNG as the "host" countries. We're paying for it out of guilt for the plethora of international laws we've violated by putting them there.
     
  13. depreciator

    depreciator Member

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    The boats have not stopped. They have just changed their direction. People are dying in more palatable locations.

    I know a bloke who has done two stints as a psychologist on Manus Island. He can't do it anymore. He's too embarrassed and distressed by what is happening. When 6 year old kids stop eating and start cutting themselves, there is something pretty awful happening.
     
    Perp likes this.
  14. LibGS

    LibGS Member

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  15. sanj

    sanj Member

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    Um excuse me, you're clearly not looking at this correctly. The fact tthat those 6 year Olds even have knives to cut themselves with or blood to spill is becausr of our help. They should be grateful for our humanitarian efforts.

    Long live scott morrison
     
  16. BayView

    BayView Member

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    So, we can't win with you and folks of your mindset, Perp..

    They arrive here uninvited, and if we take them in:

    1. We are breaking a law,

    2. If we send them back, we are heartless and cruel; sending them to a worse fate in another location, apparently.

    3. If we take them in, we are treating them as criminals and "imprisoning" them without a crime,

    4. We provide substandard conditions (compared to where they came from?)

    I think that they need to apply like any asylum seeker/refugee and/or potential immigrant under the correct channels.

    In the absence off that, what do you propose is done with them?

    From my understanding, those with legitimate claims are processed. It may not happen in a timely manner for the detainees of course.

    Those with no credentials would no doubt need to be checked and cleared. In the absence of that, what would you propose we do?

    I don't agree.

    Aus has a clear conscience on how these folks are handled.

    They leave where they were, and travel THOUSANDS of miles through and past several other Countries on their way to here.

    Why do they not stop anywhere along that route, rather than extend the trip and increase their danger?

    If all these folks are originating from Indonesia, why do the Indonesians not take them in?

    Your type can bleat on all you like about how we do things here, but at least we take them in, give them shelter and food, etc.

    Is it perfect? Of course not, but please stop trying to make Australia feel guilty on this topic.

    We do a hell of a lot more than many, many other Countries will.

    So, if it was up to you, they would all be able to simply boat over, land here, be housed and fed indefinitely, and let into the Country without following any proper channels or checks?

    We already have unemployment and housing issues, a healthcare system strained to nearly breaking point, welfare system - the same...we cannot justify all these unbridled arrivals ad nauseum.

    Think back; when that system was in place last time, over 1,000 people died before they even got here.

    Since Scott took over, noone has.

    What the hell do you people want?
     
  17. BayView

    BayView Member

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    Yeah; how careless and irresponsible of the Aus Gubb.

    They would be much safer if they didn't come to our place....a boat is good.

    "Stay where you are folks; Australia gives knives to little kids."

    I don't know if you are a parent, but I have 3 kids, and it is a 24 hour job keeping them from dying some horrible accidental death.

    Start blaming the parents of these kids, Sanj.
     
  18. LibGS

    LibGS Member

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    People with compassion need to make these decisions.

    Subjecting people to physical and mental abuse is far different to "we take them in". Seeing that phrase and the implication behind it makes me physically ill.
     
  19. Perp

    Perp Member

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    Um, no, there are loads of ways we could take them in that wouldn't be violating international law. Such as let them fly in, and then once they're identified, release them into the community whilst they have their claims assessed. Most of the first world does it this way; it's really not that revolutionary. Australia is the exception, not the rule.
    Here, we entirely agree! Australia has unfortunately shut off those channels. Any boat arrival since 13 August 2012 has been prohibited from applying for asylum in Australia entirely. Australia has prohibited these people from applying.
    As above, not by Australia.
    Because none of those countries are signatories to the United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees; these are the countries who maintain the official "queue" that some are so obsessed about. They're trying to do what the very people who lack any compassion say that they should do: join the queue via the proper channels. This can only be done from within signatory countries.
    No, I will not. We can, and should, do so much better. We do far less than many other countries who are far less wealthy and less able to provide for refugees. We should be ashamed of the present situation. (And, before you say it, this is not a Labor/Liberal thing; the Labor Party also supports offshore processing and has policies that are no better on this subject. I condemn the ALP, too.)
    We really don't.
     
  20. BayView

    BayView Member

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    How about; "we allow them to land, we allow them to be saved"

    Is that a more politically correct statement for you?

    To make hard decisions does not mean there is no compassion.

    All Australians wanted the deaths and the boats to stop - that is one of the main reasons the Libs got in., and that is what has been achieved.

    To house and feed folks is not subjecting them to mental and physical abuse.

    These folks have already suffered immeasurable physical and mental abuse and stress long before they arrived on our doorstep.