Garage to granny flat conversion, side setback

[miloolimm]

Hello all,

A year or so ago I started the attached thread;
http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55160

I wan't to know if I could convert an existing double garage to a granny flat even though it only has a 50cm side setback, not 90cm. One poster said no and my local council said no over the phone.

Brazen suggested it shouldn't be a problem and I think I should have paid more attention to him.

After speaking to an architech mate of mine and then looking closely at the SEPP legislation it states that you can do complying development if it meets requirements of Schedule 1. The relevant part of that schedule states;

9 Setbacks from side boundaries

(1) Development for the purposes of a secondary dwelling must not result in a new building or a new part of an existing building or any new carport, garage, balcony, deck, patio, pergola, terrace or verandah that is attached to such a building having a setback from a side boundary of less than the following:
(a) 0.9 metres, if the lot has an area of at least 450 square metres but less than 900 square metres,

As my garage is existing and no new building or part would be created, am I therfore exempt for the requirement of 0.9 metre side setbacks?

As the legislation has been out for a while now does anyone have any direct experience of this situation and info on how you fared?

Put the whole idea on the backburner but may have to fire it back up.

Cheers

Miloolim

 

[jsoe]

hi Miloolim,
How big is your garage again? is it going to be a one bed granny flat? Have you got a quote in terms of how much it's gonna cost?
A similar thing is on our agenda and we'd like to know some estimated costs please. Thanks.

 

[miloolimm]

Hello jsoe,

My garage is 7m by 5.5m so about 38m2. Roughly.

Will probably go one bedroom or rather just a bathroom and the rest open plan but haven't thought about it too much as I want to see if I can do it legit as a complying development/private certifier job and if there are any hidden costs such as Section 94 contributions (I am in Canterbury Council but not sure about this yet).

Ball park was hoping for about $30,000 all up. If it was going to be more than that then probably wouldn't go ahead. And of course the less I can spend for a decent outcome the better.

 

[Ideo]

I did post something up, but the site went down.

I was involved in writing the SEPP.

You can do it as you are not constructing anything new (provided you have BCA compliance etc). If you extend the garage out or anything like that the new works have to comply with the Codes SEPP.

Basically - existing works don't need to comply. Any new building does.

 

[miloolimm]

Cheers for that confirmation Ideo,

Looks like I will definitely have to start getting organized and see what it will cost etc.

 

[CarolInPerth]

I had a builder over today to look at the 40sqm colourbond garage that I am looking to convert/replace with a granny flat. No prob with distance from boundary or access but he said roof is too low (2 m) and slab needs replacing before it would comply with habitable. I'm in Cockburn WA.

 

[brazen]

Hello all,

A year or so ago I started the attached thread;
http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55160

I wan't to know if I could convert an existing double garage to a granny flat even though it only has a 50cm side setback, not 90cm. One poster said no and my local council said no over the phone.

Brazen suggested it shouldn't be a problem and I think I should have paid more attention to him.

After speaking to an architech mate of mine and then looking closely at the SEPP legislation it states that you can do complying development if it meets requirements of Schedule 1. The relevant part of that schedule states;



As my garage is existing and no new building or part would be created, am I therfore exempt for the requirement of 0.9 metre side setbacks?

As the legislation has been out for a while now does anyone have any direct experience of this situation and info on how you fared?

Put the whole idea on the backburner but may have to fire it back up.

Cheers

Miloolim

Hi Milo,

A LOT has changed since you made that post I'm afraid- that was over two years ago. I'm afraid you wont get consent due to 2 reasons:
1. The structure is just a garage today and hasn't ever been used as a granny flat. That might have flown 2 years ago but now? Forget it.

2. The side setback rule (min 900mm) relates to Fire-Separation under the Building Code as much as it does to any Council Policies. The wall would in any case have to be sealed off (no windows) and be fire-rated.

Council have final say here and if they're saying no, you have no recourse. Sorry dude

 

[miloolimm]

Hi Milo,

The wall would in any case have to be sealed off (no windows) and be fire-rated.

Ah, bit confused now.

The fired rated wall bit may be OK as it is currently a single brick wall with no windows in it?

As for the rules changing, what bit are you referring to. The SEPP legislation says you need to abide by the conditions in schedule 1 which then say that any new building or building part must be setback 900mm. If it is an existing building then that requirement in schedule 1 would not apply?

Not my area of expertise obviously but does the above make sense. I also noticed that the neighbours house that was built in the last 20 years or so, well after my garage was built, has a back wall that comes to just short of the start of my garage. That would be to comply with the setbacks to existing buildings on neighbouring properties when they did their DA no?

Anyway, I will not do anything more until I get a certifier out to look at it and say yea or nea.

They make all this stuff deliberately confusing I assume.

Cheers for the heads up Brazen.

Miloolim

 

[brazen]

Ah, bit confused now.

The SEPP legislation says you need to abide by the conditions in schedule 1 which then say that any new building or building part must be setback 900mm. If it is an existing building then that requirement in schedule 1 would not apply?

Miloolim

I see your point there but "new building" doen't mean new structure.The moment you change a structure's use from Class 10 (Outbuilding- Garage/Shed etc) to a Class 1A structure (dwelling) it is a "New Building"...although Im not 100% sure.

I don't know if a Certifier will see it that way. Let me know what he/she says, I'd love to know.

 

[Ideo]

I see your point there but "new building" doen't mean new structure.The moment you change a structure's use from Class 10 (Outbuilding- Garage/Shed etc) to a Class 1A structure (dwelling) it is a "New Building"...although Im not 100% sure.

I don't know if a Certifier will see it that way. Let me know what he/she says, I'd love to know.

I've seen it go both ways.

As long as it is BCA compliant a lot don't have an issue with it.

There is a Department of Planning complying development email address. I'd ask on there and get it in writing.

 

[miloolimm]

Was just googling Canterbury Council looing for info on Section 94 contributions when I found the following in a published meeting agenda from 2009:

It is important to note that the Department of Planning has advised that any proposed conversion of an existing outbuilding or garage to a
secondary dwelling does not override the need for the proposed secondary
dwelling to comply with all controls and standards in the SEPP, including
building setbacks.

This will prevent existing outbuildings/garages that do not meet the
setback requirements in the SEPP from being converted into a granny
flat.

Damn.

Rang Council but building/planning deptartment only take calls between 9-11am.

Not looking good though obviously.

 

[brazen]

Was just googling Canterbury Council looing for info on Section 94 contributions when I found the following in a published meeting agenda from 2009:



Damn.

Rang Council but building/planning deptartment only take calls between 9-11am.

Not looking good though obviously.

Try the NSW Department of Planning might be better:

23-33 Bridge Street, Sydney NSW 2000
GPO Box 39, Sydney NSW 2001
Tel: 02 9228 6333
Fax: 02 9228 6555
Email: [email protected]

 

[miloolimm]

Sent an email off to [email protected].

Will post when I get response.

 

[miloolimm]

So an update.

Rang Canterbury council and currently section 94 fees only apply to 2 bedrooms and above and/or (not sure) over 60 square metres. Mine is under both of these so no section 94 costs currently. They told me currently reviewing this to change approx in September. But if I get a complying development certificate before any possible change I would lock in this no S.94 fee.

In relation to setback council initially told me I would need 90 cm setback even if building was existing. Rang State Planning and they said not. But I would still need to comply with BCA. Which is apparently 90 cm but relates to fire isolation. As my shed is solid brick wall along the setbacks this would comply even though only 50 cm setback.

Rang council and asked again and pointed out relevant section of legislation and they were like, oh yeah, you're right. Not reassuring but at this stage worth going on with I think.

So will be getting private certifier to look and approve plans being drawn up by architect mate. Get complying development certificate before S.94 rules change. The council said I'd probably not be affected by changes as only 1 bedroom but better safe than sorry.

Am investigating doing owner builder route, doing course, getting certified whatever. Believe this is cheapest route.

Anyway, fingers crossed this will go smoothly. I'll update this post if any information proves to be incorrect or changes.

 

[brazen]

In relation to setback council initially told me I would need 90 cm setback even if building was existing. Rang State Planning and they said not. But I would still need to comply with BCA. Which is apparently 90 cm but relates to fire isolation. As my shed is solid brick wall along the setbacks this would comply even though only 50 cm setback.

So if a shed/garage is existing and you want to convert it to granny flat, there are no setback rules? You dont need to meet the SEPP's regulations? That's absurd isn't it?

Fire-separation regulations are, of course, a separate matter and yes, you're right, if the entire wall adjacent to the boundary is brick (or similar fire rated wall), it is compliant with the BCA in relation to adequate fire protection.

Im just totally stumped with this supposition that an outbuilding conversion can ignore the SEPP's side and rear setback regulations. If this was true you, could just get a structure approved as a shed, built 900mm from the rear boundary (as Complying Development) and then just convert it to a granny flat and you've bypasssed the whole 3m rear setback rule. That's just ridiculous isn't it?

I think I need to call Planning NSW and find out for myself if that's ok with you....what a crazy loophole.

Serge.

 

[miloolimm]

I think I need to call Planning NSW and find out for myself if that's ok with you....what a crazy loophole.

Serge.

Well, it's not like I could stop you anyway. Don't make too much noise or they may change it before I get mine through. Nooooooooooooooooo.

I see your point though.

And it's not a done deal yet, it seems everyone seems to have a varying and possibly fluid opinion on everything involved. But fingers crossed.

 

[brazen]

Well, it's not like I could stop you anyway. Don't make too much noise or they may change it before I get mine through. Nooooooooooooooooo.

I see your point though.

And it's not a done deal yet, it seems everyone seems to have a varying and possibly fluid opinion on everything involved. But fingers crossed.

I promise not to call them until your enquiry is confirmed either way, cool?

 

[miloolimm]

I promise not to call them until your enquiry is confirmed either way, cool?

It's OK, my request was tongue in cheek. I'm sure they'd be aware of the implications surely. The trouble to close loopholes would probably be correlated to how many people were taking advantage of it.

In relation to building a shed without the 3m rear setback then converting it, are there rules about the size of shed that can be built or other restrictions? Just curious.

 

[brazen]

In relation to building a shed without the 3m rear setback then converting it, are there rules about the size of shed that can be built or other restrictions? Just curious.

Yes. The rules are contained in this document:
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/view/inforce/epi+572+2008+cd+0+N

It's a much harder document to decypher than the 'Affordable Rental Hsg SEPP' because setbacks are determined on block-width for rear and block-size for side...there's other rules for max size too but grab a notepad and jot down the relevant parts under the 'Complying Development' section of the document. It starts about half way down. Lotsa fun to read

Serge.

 

[Highlygeared]

I now have this in writing guys. OK with dept of planning if not building a new structure.