Helping friend with unsupportive husband

[Indifference]

i can understand the husband pov totally. good on your friend for being able to save, but the way she went about it was wrong.

his anger has nothing to do with the money itself - it's because she kept a big secret from him, that she was making major plans without him and she had dreams and ambitions that she felt she couldn't share with him. i can imagine that he feels like she has betrayed his ability to trust her.

the feeling wouldn't have to come from saving money at all, or the purpose of that savings - i imagine it would be the same if he found out she was going to some group meeting every week that she had never told him about or lending something to value to a friend without consulting ... it was all about the trust.

i am sorry if i sound harsh - but how would she have felt if the shoe was on the other foot ... discovered by accident that he had a "secret" saving account so he could buy an expensive boat while she went without something she wanted.

ww also made a very good point about the balance of the relationship ... if he does not see your friend as being an equal partner then that is something she will have to work out - and it has nothing to do with money.

Totally agree!!!

It was said earlier that he is working 60-70 hr weeks as well! What if he thought he needed to work such long hours & wanted to cut back, and decided not to because he didn't want to put the family under financial stress???

Yeah, I think I would be asking some fairly fundamental 'trust issues' questions...

As a friend, Iwould only become passively involved by only providing a shoulder and an ear. 3 way relationships simply don't work!

 

[Perp]

Partnering up for life is a serious decision, and you want to know the person you are partnering up with really really well. it ain't about all the feel good stuff primarily....values, dreams, goals, character eventually demand their place.

It's so true, WW, and why there's some truth in the saying that people who start out as friends (ie no romantic relationship) can make great partners; they get to know each other without trying to impress each other, or pheromones blinding them. (But I'm biased: I met my hubby as a friend of my then-boyfriend... who went on to be a grooms-man at our wedding and remains a great friend of both of us. )

There are elements of trust, negotiation, secrecy, etc around the behaviours discussed in this thread, but what I think needs to be addressed is far more fundamental: do they want the same things from life? If they do, and this is just a misjudgement on her part (ie she thought she was doing something he'd be rapt with, and she was wrong!), then she needs to understand his reaction, apologise, try and make him see that there was no intent to deceive etc, but that she was trying to do something wonderful for them both. Then they need to agree on shared goals for moving forward.

If, on the other hand, they don't want the same things out of life, they may need to do some serious work to decide whether they can be happy and harmonious in pursuing separate goals. But if you're going to pursue separate goals, you have to do so with your partner's knowledge and blessing, not despite it!

I agree with Amadio that any husband who talks about "his" money is somebody I'd certainly have a difficult time making a future with! But moyjos' friend may be able to work with that. My parents-in-law have "his" money and "her" money, and they're frequently cash-strapped at different times. It's not uncommon for one of them to go on holiday alone, because the other one couldn't afford their half!!!! I think it's INSANE, but it seems to have worked for them for over 40 years... (By "worked" I mean they're still together.)

 

[skater]

I agree with Amadio that any husband who talks about "his" money is somebody I'd certainly have a difficult time making a future with! But moyjos' friend may be able to work with that. My parents-in-law have "his" money and "her" money, and they're frequently cash-strapped at different times. It's not uncommon for one of them to go on holiday alone, because the other one couldn't afford their half!!!! I think it's INSANE, but it seems to have worked for them for over 40 years... (By "worked" I mean they're still together.)

That is bizzare, and I would have a big problem with it, but if it works for them, all well and good. And maybe this could be the solution for the couple in question here. They each spend $20k on what they want individually, or they are each able to draw a certain amount of $$ each pay period for whatever use they want.

 

[lizzie]

What I meant was that they need to sit down and discuss what they want as a couple.

sometimes you need to be unselfish ... hubby has a development site deposit sitting in front of the house (in the form of a yacht) that we might use 12-15 times a year. a deposit that would bring our retirement that many years closer.

and i'm not even that real keen on going sailing because i end up below decks entertaining junior, slowly getting seasick!

but he loves his boat, so there it stays ....

 

[rugrat]

I was always brought up to believe in a relationship that no matter what the topic of discussion is (kids, money, houses, boats, whatever) it takes 2 "yes's" and 1 "no".

Two "yes's" to agree to something, and one "no" to stop it.

They are both being selffish.

She should have saved the money - BUT she had NO RIGHT to HIDE it, it is his money too (unless she was planning on leaving him...).

He needs an attitude adjustment about exactly "who's" money it is (He may have the job that brings in the paycheck, but it is family money IMHO) - But he isn't unique in his sense of entitlement, I know many 'people' like that. They both need to get on the same page on this.

As for the IP. If he doesn't want to invest, then he shouldn't. (doesn't mean she cann't try and change he's mind). Property investment isn't for everyone. She needs to decide what is more important to her - him or investing in property. She cannot do it without him - even if she had her own income stream, to go ahead with this without his agreement is reopening the "who's money is it?" debate. It is not right to force your POV on someone else (whom you are supposed to love).

Same goes for the boat.

If this 'incident' is enough to break up their marriage, then it must be a pretty rocky marriage anyway - otherwise it is just a disagreement.

Either way DON'T GET INOLVED as any more then a support for your friend when she needs a shoulder to cry on. A relationship cannot be fixed unless BOTH parties to the relationship are willing to fix it - and unless they are BOTH coming to you to ask your intervention and help, it is NOT your place to do so (and even then I would suggest pointing them in the direction of a good counsellor - both financial and otherwise) because you are anything but unbias.

 

[Simon]

She should have saved the money - BUT she had NO RIGHT to HIDE it, it is his money too (unless she was planning on leaving him...).

I can't believe you wrote that.

She is allowed to sneak money out of the partnership if she plans on leaving him?

If a bloke did that he would be evil ...

 

[rugrat]

I can't believe you wrote that.

She is allowed to sneak money out of the partnership if she plans on leaving him?

If a bloke did that he would be evil ...

Not what I meant. Honestly probably shouldn't have bothered even putting that comment, because it really is a different issue altogether.

I am not advocating ANYONE try and hide money or assets in preparation of a divorce.

I am however aware of certain situations in which it becomes neccessary for someone to save / put aside money in 'secret' in order to get themselves in a position where they can leave a relationship (like I said not really relavent to this situation). This can be the case in either physically or financially abusive relationships - and is equally true for both men and women (it is just statistically more likely that a SAHM with no income of her own, who is financially dependant on her husband, would need to do this).

I am not going to be drawn into a gender debate, because quite frankly I don't see this as an issue here - even though you seem to be doing your best to make it one.

Both partners acted wrongly here in different ways. I don't care if they are a same sex couple or the roles are reversed, I stand by my opinion.


Edit: Just though I would add that the situations I am referring too, I am very aware of as someone who has volunteered for a place that provides emergency housing for partners escaping domestic violence. I have seen many more women there then men (haven't actually seen a male there, although I do know there are male victims). Most of these women flee with their children, the clothes on their back and nothing else. They have no access to money, clothing, food, shelter and are too terrified of returning to their abuser (rightly so). This lack of financial support is one of the huge contributing factors as to why so many people return to violent partners. They feel (rightly or wrongly) they have no other option to support their children.
Often violence is accompanied by drinking and / or gambling. Which is another reason why it might be nessecary to "hide" money.

SO "yes" IMHO, there are situations whereby it is OK to lie and hide away money from your partner.

 

[travelbug]

She REALLY wants to invest and has been saving hard for a deposit. Cut a long story short. Hubby found out about her savings amount. He knew she was putting $$ into an ING account but thought it was just a "christmas account" type thing. She has managed to save nearly $40,000.

On an on about stealing "his" $$ and depriving him of "his" belongings etc etc.

This is a bit confusing.

He "found out" about the account. Like she was keeping it a secret??

But he "knew she had an ING account". He thought it was a Christmas account thing. Did she lead him to believe that or did he not understand what the account was for (to save for investment)?

People are now accusing her of stealing "his" money but it's not clear really.

If he's accusing her of stealing "his" money I think they have bigger problems than their differences of opinion on investment.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Simon seems to be the only one with a level head in this thread. Good to see you're back, buddy.

 

[Mel22]

I think perhaps this pair needs to work on their communication skills.

Not meaning to be condescending, but I really can't imagine how you can actually help in this situation, obviously besides offering support or advice.

These people are middle-aged and have had three children together. They really have to work on this with each other. The thing that concerns me is the serious lack of effective communication between these two. For her to feel as though she has to hoard money without his knowledge is quite odd in my opinion. For him to react as he has indicates that there are underlying issues that you are not aware of.

With all due respect - I really don't think that many people outside of a marriage know enough to "help," (especially without both sides of the story). Advice is one thing, but I believe that the only constructive advice in this situation would be to encourage open communication between your friend and her husband. If she is considering leaving him, I think they may have some core issues to work on in their relationship - the problem is not as simple as merely having different goals/ambitions.

 

[lizzie]

Simon seems to be the only one with a level head in this thread. Good to see you're back, buddy.

lot of good info here from everyone - but yes - good to see simon back in the fold.