Who voted for this fool anyhow??? ... WASN'T ME!!!
I don't vote.
Also, I find it absolutely hilarious that you guys, who are supposed to be intelligent adults, fall for media hype and speculation like it's fact.
He's gone too Ruddy far this time
- Thread starter Ausprop
- Start date
I don't vote.
Also, I find it absolutely hilarious that you guys, who are supposed to be intelligent adults, fall for media hype and speculation like it's fact.
DanielG, you've totally missed my point.
1) this is not legislation yet, it's just speculation.
2) the pattern now is a new tax is floated, the affected industry sends out press release after press release bemoaning the new tax. Then it is either watered down or abandoned. We are a country now governed by lobby groups. In the end, this new tax, if it ever sees the light of day, will have minimal effect on mining or employment.
1) this is not legislation yet, it's just speculation.
2) the pattern now is a new tax is floated, the affected industry sends out press release after press release bemoaning the new tax. Then it is either watered down or abandoned. We are a country now governed by lobby groups. In the end, this new tax, if it ever sees the light of day, will have minimal effect on mining or employment.
Enough government bashing guys. A few facts:
- The current system of mining royalties taxes a fixed rate based on revenue alone. In other words, if a mining company's cost of production is $40/tonne it doesn't matter one jot whether they are able to sell the stuff for $41/tonne or $4000/tonne, they still get taxed the same rate. Shouldn't we instead be trying to help the marginal projects by backing off a bit for them and perhaps partaking of some more of the cake when there is more than enough for everyone?
- As Colin Barnett put it so eloquently mining royalties are not taxes. They are the price at which we the people sell the resources to the mining companies on an "as is, where is" basis. The people own the resource - not the mining companies. If the international price of these commodities booms (as is now the case) should all the windfall profits go to the miners who just dig it up and ship it out? Or should the actual owners of the resources, as represented by our governments, be able to share in the benefits of that market price? If we didn't change the system, we would be like a landlord getting stuck in a regressive lease, forever.
So I don't think we should watch on helplessly getting a pitiful share of the pie while Rio and BHP rake it in. The system has needed fixing for a long time. I am encouraged by the noises being made by both the WA Liberal and Fed Labor governments on this that there is bipartisan support for sensible royalties based on sharing profit instead of just a fixed rate on revenue / volume.
And remember how the gold industry was going to die when a gold tax was going to be introduced (or the exemption removed more accurately...)? The media storm and lobbying by the miners was overwhelming - I still remember the bumper stickers all around Perth protesting about it. The gold industry is now 10X bigger than it was when that industry killing "tax" was introduced.
Red herrings thrown by very powerful companies and lobby groups - don't pick 'em up!
- The current system of mining royalties taxes a fixed rate based on revenue alone. In other words, if a mining company's cost of production is $40/tonne it doesn't matter one jot whether they are able to sell the stuff for $41/tonne or $4000/tonne, they still get taxed the same rate. Shouldn't we instead be trying to help the marginal projects by backing off a bit for them and perhaps partaking of some more of the cake when there is more than enough for everyone?
- As Colin Barnett put it so eloquently mining royalties are not taxes. They are the price at which we the people sell the resources to the mining companies on an "as is, where is" basis. The people own the resource - not the mining companies. If the international price of these commodities booms (as is now the case) should all the windfall profits go to the miners who just dig it up and ship it out? Or should the actual owners of the resources, as represented by our governments, be able to share in the benefits of that market price? If we didn't change the system, we would be like a landlord getting stuck in a regressive lease, forever.
So I don't think we should watch on helplessly getting a pitiful share of the pie while Rio and BHP rake it in. The system has needed fixing for a long time. I am encouraged by the noises being made by both the WA Liberal and Fed Labor governments on this that there is bipartisan support for sensible royalties based on sharing profit instead of just a fixed rate on revenue / volume.
And remember how the gold industry was going to die when a gold tax was going to be introduced (or the exemption removed more accurately...)? The media storm and lobbying by the miners was overwhelming - I still remember the bumper stickers all around Perth protesting about it. The gold industry is now 10X bigger than it was when that industry killing "tax" was introduced.
Red herrings thrown by very powerful companies and lobby groups - don't pick 'em up!
If they could manage with less staff they would have done it already.
Most corps these days operate with minimum number of staff so it's hard to reduce numbers without affecting their operations
From what I hear diging up dirt in WA is easy so they must have heaps of room for taxing the miners
Hang on....how many times are you selling this resource...?
The miners explore, then invest/risk billions in getting it out of the ground and to markets and are then taxed on their profits. Meanwhile putting into place thousands of decent paying jobs and holding up whole communities....and you want to sell it to them twice...?
The people don't own the resources, especially so after they have "sold" it via royalties.
Just as much as you don't own a 1/22,000,000th share of my backyard, or me yours...!
I disagree with your whole idea of ownership of resources.
All people are free to invest and purchase equity in a privately run Mining company if they so desire, before and or after a discovery and thus participate in the wealth creation.
But noooo.....who wants that risk...? Just take it from them willy nilly after all the hard work and risk has been done.....that's the Australian way... NOT!
Hi Thorpey
I'm not sure we are on the same page here. I am advocating replacing the current royalty scheme with a profit sharing scheme instead. A profit sharing scheme is liked by the junior miners as it is more favourable for marginal projects and still has plenty of upside for the equity holder if the project gets well into the money. The existing system is not kind to marginal projects so we get the iron ore duopoly we currently have. It also gets a very small share of the pie from the low cost producers.
BTW mining leases are not freehold - they are "rights to explore and extract". For that purpose they take precedence over freehold land. A mining company never owns the resource until we sell it to them. The fact that we sell it to them is not in dispute. The means by which should do so is the question. Comparing a mining lease with property ownership is comparing chalk and cheese.
Tax the rich more? Perhaps remind yourself of this well-worn story... Tax the rich Although, perhaps not a great example in this scenario, as I don't know where a mining company "goes" if they can't mine!
re
re
To me, its shameful that the current government and previous one had decided to mass sell our resources in its most primary form. The resources then gets used/processed overseas, and the countries who bought them then sell us back the finish product. So whats going to happen when the resources run out? We then would be left with massive craters on the ground and the death of own economy and environment.
I believe the reverse. We should at least use some of the resources we dig up, to benefit the manufacturing sectors here. At least make / do something with it before we sell it.
At the moment, we are like selling our own house brick by brick, and pretend we made a profit at the end of each year.
Instead of voting against the new super tax on resource sector, I hope the government would actually set aside some of the funds for the clean up effort after all those foreign companies had left. I do not want Australia turn out to be like Africa.
Warrenkh.2010
re
To me, its shameful that the current government and previous one had decided to mass sell our resources in its most primary form. The resources then gets used/processed overseas, and the countries who bought them then sell us back the finish product. So whats going to happen when the resources run out? We then would be left with massive craters on the ground and the death of own economy and environment.
I believe the reverse. We should at least use some of the resources we dig up, to benefit the manufacturing sectors here. At least make / do something with it before we sell it.
At the moment, we are like selling our own house brick by brick, and pretend we made a profit at the end of each year.
Instead of voting against the new super tax on resource sector, I hope the government would actually set aside some of the funds for the clean up effort after all those foreign companies had left. I do not want Australia turn out to be like Africa.
Warrenkh.2010
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I understand the thinking on why everyone is dirty on ol' kruddy but what was to be expected?
Massive fiscal stimulus and FHOB, stamp duty discounts, medical system revamps etc etc
The money to pay for all of this eventually needs to be found, doesn't it?
And any politician / government will have to tax someone somewhere to do so. It isnt going to be a GST increase because retail spending is declining and to increase income tax for the lower income earners is also going to hurt (same with the high income earners of whom many were hit by the GFC via the sharemarket).
So what can they tax....an industry that is reaping massive profits and is expected to continue doing (hello mining) and an industry with a fair stigma attached to it (ciggies).
By the way, Im neither Yay or Nay when it comes down to it (I dislike all pollies equally), but to have a small laymens objective understanding of how they operate takes away the anger and surprise.
Massive fiscal stimulus and FHOB, stamp duty discounts, medical system revamps etc etc
The money to pay for all of this eventually needs to be found, doesn't it?
And any politician / government will have to tax someone somewhere to do so. It isnt going to be a GST increase because retail spending is declining and to increase income tax for the lower income earners is also going to hurt (same with the high income earners of whom many were hit by the GFC via the sharemarket).
So what can they tax....an industry that is reaping massive profits and is expected to continue doing (hello mining) and an industry with a fair stigma attached to it (ciggies).
By the way, Im neither Yay or Nay when it comes down to it (I dislike all pollies equally), but to have a small laymens objective understanding of how they operate takes away the anger and surprise.
Warren Buffet has no problems taxing the rich.
Im rich (in terms of income) and I dont mind being taxed if it helps others out.
Its an un level playing field from the start. Im a white anglo saxon protestant. Im not necessarily richer than an african because im better at stuff.
Im rich (in terms of income) and I dont mind being taxed if it helps others out.
Its an un level playing field from the start. Im a white anglo saxon protestant. Im not necessarily richer than an african because im better at stuff.
the scary thing is WHO ELSE IS THERE TO VOTE FOR?
the athlete? you gotta be kidding
bring back turnbull - at least he understood how to run a successful "coporation".
And has some real form for sticking with what he believes in...
Turnbull? What a shame? Very popular and charismatic.
Tony Abbott is not the one. Too weird. Too religious. Too old fashioned. Turnbull could have been OK, but Goldman Sachs got to him. He even owns a grazing farm not far from me, so how come he couldn't see how stupid the ETS was?
If he can't see that he may as well join the labor party.
See ya's.
Maybe he's never set foot on it.
I suppose this new mining tax will have to get through the senate first, and what's the chances of that? Typical socialist political move by a bunch of idiots who have never run a business, but are ex greenies, public servants and unionists.
How much will BHP and RIO drop today? I suppose some of the drop has already happened last week, as this proposal was well forecast. I hold a lot of each.
I heard a rumour,......
Apparently Labor got the Greek finance minister in as a consultant, but he left saying "he could not work with such idiots!"
See ya's.
How much will BHP and RIO drop today? I suppose some of the drop has already happened last week, as this proposal was well forecast. I hold a lot of each.
I heard a rumour,......
Apparently Labor got the Greek finance minister in as a consultant, but he left saying "he could not work with such idiots!"
See ya's.
I love it!
I reckon those who supported him to get it lots smoked, and he just made them pay more then their $900 in smokes pa.
I wrote a short prayer for rudd.
Dear Lord,
I know that this past year you have taken away my favourite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favourite actress, Farah Fawcett and my favourite musician, Michael Jackson. I just wanted to let you know that my favourite prime minister is Kevin Rudd.
Amen.
I reckon those who supported him to get it lots smoked, and he just made them pay more then their $900 in smokes pa.
I wrote a short prayer for rudd.
Dear Lord,
I know that this past year you have taken away my favourite actor, Patrick Swayze, my favourite actress, Farah Fawcett and my favourite musician, Michael Jackson. I just wanted to let you know that my favourite prime minister is Kevin Rudd.
Amen.
Probably good, it will depend on the details.
The idea has merit IMO but it will have to be a combined state/fed and I don't know if they can convince the WA gov.
Maybe you should lighten up a little you can always buy them back later....for less
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........"WA mining industry chiefs warned that Australia would lose from Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's plan to tax miners in a bid to slow the WA economy to ensure a mining boom does not suck too much money and workers from the Eastern States".........
What tha..?? Surely it's better for workers and money to be flowing to the productive parts of the economy than floundering in service industries on the east coast?
WA should susceed from the commonwealth.
Just joking. No, don't do it please.
See ya's.
we Ruddy should actually, we're still not on the original list of federated colonies.
then we'll see how many lattes can hold up an economy.
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