He's gone too Ruddy far this time

[aussierogue]

Many of these mining companies have low cost bases (compared to revenues)

Lets just say they need to sell their iron ore for 15 bucksd per tonne to breakeven. They are currently getting 3 or 4 times that amount. Now there is talk of new price rises that the chinese will have to cop.

These price rises alone could easily increase revenues so much it will negate the negative tax issues.

Thats how crazy commodity prices are.

When the price of iron ore jumps 50 percent in one year where do you reckon this money goes? Back into new mines, upgrades etc etc? Some does but most dont.

Ist it any coincidence that Twiggy can go from a no body to Australias richest man in a few short years.

He didnt invent anything - he just laid claim on some dust that essentially is all of ours.

Australians should all benefit from mining booms!

 

[The Fence]

Australians should all benefit from mining booms!

You already do....what are you going to do to help benefit more from it...tax it to hell...?

Or get out there with a shovel and start digging...?

You are free to invest in the miners and therefore take on the same risk as they do....ok...?

 

[aussierogue]

You already do....what are you going to do to help benefit more from it...tax it to hell...?

Or get out there with a shovel and start digging...?

You are free to invest in the miners and therefore take on the same risk as they do....ok...?

I do invest in miners. In fact I am actively involved in the mining indusrty and it has helped make me alot of money in my day job!

Doesnt mean I dont think that Ozzies as a whole should not benefit from the worlds biggest ever mining boom.

There is so muich money that it would be madness not to spread it around a little. At the end of the day Australians own over 50 percent of the worlds dry commodities.

There is a responsibility there to make sure we all benefit not justy slick ex stockbrokers and the finacially savvy.

Why increase taxes on other parts of the community when other parts have trouble even counting it!

Maybe you havent been watching Wall st shenanigans recently - banks and miners are built from the same stone!

 

[Aaron Sice]

Many of these mining companies have low cost bases (compared to revenues)

Lets just say they need to sell their iron ore for 15 bucksd per tonne to breakeven. They are currently getting 3 or 4 times that amount. Now there is talk of new price rises that the chinese will have to cop.

These price rises alone could easily increase revenues so much it will negate the negative tax issues.

Thats how crazy commodity prices are.

When the price of iron ore jumps 50 percent in one year where do you reckon this money goes? Back into new mines, upgrades etc etc? Some does but most dont.

Ist it any coincidence that Twiggy can go from a no body to Australias richest man in a few short years.

He didnt invent anything - he just laid claim on some dust that essentially is all of ours.

Australians should all benefit from mining booms!

i love communism. works great in theory.

 

[The Fence]

i love communism. works great in theory.

Beat me too it BC...kudos!

 

[topcropper]

Me too.

Funny how no one likes it here when a property investor gets told they were just lucky. But Andrew Forrest was just lucky to have developed that multy billion dollar asset that no one else wanted, even Rio Tinto. Pathetic.

And it does sound like communism

And truely, do people in Melbourne who have just seen their house prices go up by 25% in 12 months really think they don't benefit from the commodity boom already?


See ya's.

 

[aussierogue]

Why you guys getting personal and calling me a commo.

Taxes happen everywhere.

Topcropper i am a proeprty investor an my capital gains have been part luck and part skill. Mostly its been about understanding the system. Cashflow vs cap gains, neg gearing etc. No great skill. And others just do the same thing on a larger scale.

Thats what drives people like andrew forrest aswell.

Everyone knows mining is the place to be - even the underworld is trying to buy up- some tenemants. And yes people thats all you have to do. Raise some capital, buy some tenements and then try and dig for gold.

Whats so hard about that?

Simple fact - most small cap mining companies are 3 or 4 people. A geologist, A ceo who is an ex finance person and a secretary.

The ignorance of some conservative views here is astounding. And all you have to fall back on is petty name calling.

 

[aussierogue]

Is bill gates a commo because he has set up a trust to help people with little money?

Is warren buffet a commo because he belives the rich should be taxed more to help the needy?

These are two of the greatest capitalists of our time. The thing that sets them apart from your ordinary conservative citizen is that their sense of perspective and humanity is a little more developed!

 

[Perth Investor]

I like to think of myself as a raging free marketeer, but I'm with Aussie Rogue on this one.

For various reasons:

We will eventually run out of this stuff, we need to make sure we bank some money from it in the meantime.

The profits are ludicrously high with prices where they are now, and they can afford it. If prices drop the tax cost will drop so it's proportional.

This tax will help junior companies as it only comes into play when the profits jump to high levels.

The government will use some of this money to improve infrastructure in the area, making it a better place for residents, and once again better for junior miners.



I don't buy the argument from the mining council for a moment that this will cause projects to be shelved etc. Are you telling me mining companies will only open mines if their return on investment is 50%+? Bullocks!

And everyone is laying into Rudd a fair bit (I hate Rudd, so go nuts!) but this is Treasury Secretary Ken Henry's plan, not Rudd's. And I think Henry has thought this out a fair bit, along with Heather Ridout and a few other pretty smart people that were on the review panel. I can't imaging what we will think in a hundred years when most of this stuff is gone and we just let RIO and BHP take off with all the profits and then reinvest those profits in Africa or Brazil to open mines there when we have nothing left?

 

[Norwester]

Superprofit = Das Kapital

Go figure.........

 

[Aaron Sice]

Why you guys getting personal and calling me a commo.

Taxes happen everywhere.

Topcropper i am a proeprty investor an my capital gains have been part luck and part skill. Mostly its been about understanding the system. Cashflow vs cap gains, neg gearing etc. No great skill. And others just do the same thing on a larger scale.

Thats what drives people like andrew forrest aswell.

Everyone knows mining is the place to be - even the underworld is trying to buy up- some tenemants. And yes people thats all you have to do. Raise some capital, buy some tenements and then try and dig for gold.

Whats so hard about that?

Simple fact - most small cap mining companies are 3 or 4 people. A geologist, A ceo who is an ex finance person and a secretary.

The ignorance of some conservative views here is astounding. And all you have to fall back on is petty name calling.

...because those 3 or four people stumped up around 2000x more cash than the pathetic $1978.45 state grant they got for exploration.

they put their life, their homes, their financial security, their super - EVERYTHING - on the line for the chance to make even more money where no-one else wanted to because they had a higher risk/reward tolerance than most.

now that risk is removed becauser the hard yards are done - YOU decide YOU deserve some of the action? why? what on god's green (red) earth did you do to possibly deserve a cut of the reward when you took zero risk in the first place?

just because you were BORN here?

that's communism, comrade. built, risked and funded by the cashed up investor, confiscated by the people for the people.

It's the RBA.

Dictatorships aren't formed to stop a revolution. Revolutions are waged to implement a dictatorship.

if you support that kind of mentality that "it ours! not theirs!" then i suppose you're happy to let the govt take YOUR super and redistribute it for the greater good as well?

and i haven't called you ANY names. i said your thinking was pinko.


and you're all missing a vital point. if the market reverts toa daily/weekly/monthly spot price, then so will revenues. under labour, yeah, they might miss it, but we have a liberal govt who understand money, not pretend that spending = reform.

 

[WinstonWolfe]

If Rudd wants to tax the mining industry because he is laying claim to ownership of the mineral wealth, then why is he selling off state owned infrastructure to foreigners? tollways, power, water, telecommunications, etc, etc.

Are these operators going to get a tax hike when their profits get too high?
What we have here is a Socialist state dictating there shall be a profit threshold.

If Rudd had guts for his convictions, he should do what the Chinese do, and have the govt own and operate the mines. But he can't even do that with the road system.

 

[Player]

Come over here Mr. Wolfe, in Melbourne they can't even get the train tickets organised

This "rent tax" for want of a better word, is supposed to be for our benefit....fill up the kitty and help fund the ensuing unfunded promises that Messrs Rudd and Swan will be bleating in the lead up to the election.........hence funding votes.

Do we all realise that we as property investors (not all, but most who have a significant portfolio) also pay a rent for the benefit of the land that we risk ourselves financially to purchase IP's on and house renters for a price less than if they were purchasing the same asset.........it's called land tax and, whilst it is a state levied impost, what pray tell are they doing with those funds.

They will grab from where ever they can. We are over-governed and underwhelmed.

 

[The Fence]

Agreed BC & WW....well said.

AussieR......So BHP & RIO don't donate or form community funds to help,"pay their way"...? Of course they do...!!!

The flippin govt requires them to do this do that and do a hellava lot of hoop jumping and now you want your own show put on....geeze....and you should be thankful for the job you have yet you want the company to give up more for the greater good of the human race ?....where do you think it should stop then...????
At what level are you happy to take your bit..? can it stop there..?
Or are we to dig deeper into their pockets when we see them doing better again one day...?

 

[aussierogue]

BC -

You are taking this very personally. You wouldnt be a liberal voter from WA would you!

I told you I dont expect anything because I actually invest in these guys and I take a wage from the industry. So i dont have any axe to grind in terms of wanting a bigger share.

BTW - The giys I know (and I know a few) running mining companies didnt risk much. They all well healed, used other peoples money and ready to go back to a nice 300k job doing something else if it all fell over.

If they were smart they would have bought a few properties just like you and me!

Its a very speculative business. Most fail and yet the directors have done very very well thank you very much on the back of large salaries coughed up by the financiers

Wintson - its all about timing. The day will come when commodity prices drop and we wont be able to tax the mining industry. On the contrary they will get concessions like our farmers.

There is a time for everything un der the sun!

I dont even vote for Rudd but you guys are so biased its crazy. Liberals for life hey. Great stuff.

 

[aussierogue]

Listen to all you blokes complaining about politicians....If there was ever a futile discussion they you guys are falling for it!.

Both major parties are so similar its not funny. You just need someone to balme. Are you all making money? Why whinge so much. Unless offcourse you own millions if fmg, rio and BHP shares. Dont worry they will bounce back when the market realises it makes no difference.

What else are people gonna do with their money?

 

[battler]

then why is he selling off state owned infrastructure to foreigners? tollways, power, water, telecommunications, etc, etc.

Good question, and what happens when he has nothing left to borrow against?

 

[WinstonWolfe]

Come over here Mr. Wolfe, in Melbourne they can't even get the train tickets organised

They will grab from where ever they can. We are over-governed and underwhelmed.

hehehehe.... yeah the govt is all gung ho about increasing population, and pretending they're simultaneously preserving the environment......but then they leave the mess to the private sector to sort out. Unfortunately, what is happening now is that this lack of governance and accountability has gone too far......and the two conflicting positions have collided in the form of inadequate infrastructure and undersupply of housing......their solution? give it all over to the private sector....but when they sort it out, tax the hell out of them....

Captain Bligh has the same modus operandi up here. She realizes traditonal govt run services are in dire straits because of underfunded capital and operation needs. Rather than have the State govt take the rap, she sells off the sick puppies, and lets the private sector take the heat.....It is all about govts keeping themselves in power......despite their mismanagement causing it in the first place.....

Wintson - its all about timing. The day will come when commodity prices drop and we wont be able to tax the mining industry. On the contrary they will get concessions like our farmers.

AR, that's what I don't agree with. This is the govt interfering with free markets. Any mining company that operates responsibly will manage the ups and downs of demand. All govt taxation and concessions do is foster the inefficient.

Besides, the govt is full of BS. NSW State govt have been selling of mining rights to China in TC's neck of the woods, purely as a money grab.

And the same applies in the farming sector. Let the farmers budget appropriately for good times and bad....and the less able move onto doing something they are better at. Gee, the same has been said since Old Testament times. But I guess Rudd, like the true believing socialist he is, thinks his advice is better than God's.

 

[aussierogue]

Winston - Has not the recent Wall St stuff confirmed that in some cases the markets needs to be monitored.

I work for one of the most capitalist firms in the western world and I can tell you that if you left these guys to run goverments there would be a mass revolution pretty quickly. (The french revolution was partly an uprising against wealthy land onwers as well as the monrachy)

I an a capitalist but the markets need to looked at with a longer term perspective than private enterprise can offer.

Wouldnt it be nice that when **** hits the fan our government contunues to have a massive kitty to help us out in the lean times?

Also Rudd isnt a socialist - he and his wife are the richest first family in Australian History! Deciding that there should be a more even spread (not tottaly) is not a socialist thing imo. Its pragmatic and its good business. If we dont spread it around we will have haves and have nots - who do you reckon is gonna pay that bill? So we may aswell save for a rainy day and put in places policy that makes sure a more even spread of wealth.

Theres still plenty of motivation for ME to go out and invest and make money.

I harp back to Warren Buffet, Norway and other examples that capitalism can have a social aspect. Infact the biggest and the best believe in spreading the love! So it must be good for business...

 

[Intrinsic_Value]

Dont know and dont really care about all this stuff.

To me investing is just like playing a game of studd poker, you get dealt the hand, no use biitching about the hand, just play the odds. If the odds dont seem good, fold and wait for the next one.

If this tax is taking away from the resource sector, then the question is where will it be allocated to.
Look at the sectors of potential allocation and look to see if there are valuable opportunities there that stack up regardless of the re-allocation.
If they stack up pre re-allocation, then any diversion of tax revenue will just be icing on the cake.

I will add one further mention, for those that want to buy on dips, make sure you know your intrinsic value for the investment. Alot of 'suckers' bought dips in telstra all the way down because they underestimated the regulatory risk.
I'm not saying this will be the case for resources, i'm just saying do your homework and make sure you are not just buying dips for the sake of a dip.