Hosuing glut hits suburbs

''There's no reason for concern. The stock on the market tells you nothing about the fundamentals. It's underlying demand that matters. Melbourne's new homes market is in good shape,'' said HIA economist Andrew Harvey.

Hahaha didn't know economists could also do stand up comedy.
 
So according to the article there are 55,000 unsold properties in June in Melbourne...35,000 of them on the fringes.

What's a normal total of unsolds in Melbourne at any point in time? anyone know?

this may or may not be accurate...but of the 35,000 unsold on the fringes...alot of these may not even be properties that exist yet.

most volume builders in Melbourne will offer house and land packages for sale on realestate.com on yet to be titled or titled land that they may not own...just for marketing purposes for anyone who is looking to build.

It helps the developers move the land and the builder to get the contract to build.

these packages may remain of realestate.com months after being sold also

So if these packages are included in the 35,000 unsold it may paint a much worse picture than in reality.

i guess it depends where the data from the article comes from.

Nathan
 
Hi,

strange that there are so many properties on sale, but how do we know how many are distressed sales?

For e.g. just called an agent in Wyndham Vale and was asking about a property which is advertised as 'Priced to Sell' ; Asking price: 249K, I offered unconditional 220K, offer got knocked back straightaway

So no of properties on the market is 1 thing and sellers willing to accept a set number as sale price is totally different. There is def a big gap there but its interesting to see how long can sellers hold their prices.

If stock market, economy does not make a U turn, sellers would have to lower the price and then buyers would adapt and still ask for lower prices.

These sort of downturns would provide opportunities for astute buyers whereas many would be sitting on neg equity in the mortage belt areas

Regards,
TV
 
So no of properties on the market is 1 thing and sellers willing to accept a set number as sale price is totally different. There is def a big gap there but its interesting to see how long can sellers hold their prices.
From experience overseas, the stand off can last 1-2 years (reflected in lower sales) before sellers accept the new reality and prices start to fall more significantly.
 
tvadera;927251...Is Melbourne completely a write off for the next 2-3 years....[/QUOTE said:
It can take many years to bring raw paddocks to the market, and rezoning tracts of land does not mean that they will go on to the market for development any time soon

Let us say that the rezoning of these areas goes ahead, and that Fred and Mary, the Farmers, being just down the road from a new subdivision in a growth corridor, decide to put the farm on the market

So what's the best guess? 5 Years before the thistles are replaced by curbs, channels, bitumen roads and display homes? 10 years before the place has more than 35% occupancy?

I don't think we are going to be overwhelmed by a surplus of supply any time soon. Victoria's population is growing by 1,000 new people every week

realestate.com.au has 97,046 properties listed as 'for sale' in Victoria today. How many were advertised 12 months ago or 2 years ago, I don't know. I can't isolate the results to 'Melbourne' because Melbourne Metropolitan Area now stretches from Frankston to Pakenham to Epping, to Whittlesea, to Werribee and includes areas such as Point Cook. The search engine doesn't recognise 'Melbourne' as anything except postcode 3000. And despite being ‘for sale’, these properties are all actually owned by somebody today. It may be a bit of a nuisance if they aren’t sold soon, but they are not perishable like fruit and if they aren’t sold soon they will still eventually be sold.

I think that by the time 10 years comes around we will have rezoned and released even more land - our fertile farm lands and vegetable gardens are being swallowed up by garden gnomes, the relentless march of paved alfresco areas with fire pits and water features.

But even if the Inner Ring suburbs suddenly dropped 20% in price, there would not be a stampede to move in. All roads do not now lead to only Rome. Melbourne now has many Romes and many communities, sufficient unto themselves. I have lived here all my life, and watch with wonder as Melbourne continues to invent itself and how it grows and changes over time

It is a World Class city to be proud of, and there are many areas outside of our own neighbourhoods which other people are proud to call home

Is the bottom going to drop out of our market? Who knows? No market can continually grow in value and the housing market is no different. However, I would doubt that a property bought in 'Melbourne' today, is worth the same or less dollars in ten years time. I would still hazard the guess that property values today are, within a modest margin, at their historical lowest of at any time between now and 2032.

From my perspective, today's market is more about 'days to sell' than it is about the actual dollars a property is sold for.

Cheers
Kristine
 



I don't think we are going to be overwhelmed by a surplus of supply any time soon. Victoria's population is growing by 1,000 new people every week


Kristine


Where did you get that stat from? Talking to local agents potray a different picture, they are saying lot of developers have jumped in by paying high $ for a block of land and have started with sub division, however with little or no immigration (students specially from overseas), stock is increasing without being consumed at same pace as it used to 2 years back
 
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/housing-glut-hits-suburbs-20120707-21o6k.html

Is Melbourne completely a write off for the next 2-3 years.

Gov is insane releasing more land and redefining urban growth boundary.

Article states Melb has land supply for 30 years. So does that mean it would be worse than US resi market as far as Melb is concerned?

Regards,
TV

If anything there is a shortage of quality properties in the area i watch closely (St Kilda East and surrounding suburbs). I've noticed over the last few months that the number of properties for sale in this area has reduced significantly and the quality of the properties coming onto the market are average.
Oversupply? Yes in the newer outer suburbs but definitely not in the inner city.
 
If anything there is a shortage of quality properties in the area i watch closely (St Kilda East and surrounding suburbs). I've noticed over the last few months that the number of properties for sale in this area has reduced significantly and the quality of the properties coming onto the market are average.
Oversupply? Yes in the newer outer suburbs but definitely not in the inner city.

This reflects my investment strategy. The only people affected by this land release are the developers who a) own the land nearby that was already rezoned residential so their values will drop, and b) the developers who owned the farmland that has now been zoned residential so they have made a lot more money. There is no oversupply of quality dwellings near the CBD so the 'Melbourne' market will be fine for those who stick to Melbourne and not places like Cranbourne or Clyde.
 
Finite land and fully developed area as you move towards inner city and blue chip locations. Infrastructure fully established and you can't replicate it. Universities, sports stadiums, historical precincts, CBD which has 500,000 people per day moving in and out.

In contrast, infinite amount of land in fringe suburbs. Subdividers made a killing and continue to make a killing off FHO who are now underwater in these areas and will continue to create more suburbs.

Friend just had acres of land rezoned as part of this new Ballieu Government plan. Made tens of millions. He never donates to any party nor has contact with them. Not sure why the media keeps running articles about only donors benefitting from the rezoning.
 
From experience overseas, the stand off can last 1-2 years (reflected in lower sales) before sellers accept the new reality and prices start to fall more significantly.

I'd argue that what brings prices down is forced sales. If these aren't happening in significant numbers, and sellers can hold out, then the market won't show a significant fall. That's what's been happening in the UK, and this piece from the BBC makes for interesting, and depressing reading.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18607088

In fact, over here we're seeing asking prices increase relative to sales prices. The Right Move index (what sellers are asking) has remained pretty flat for years despite selling prices falling.

HPI-LR1.PNG
 
Forces sales because job losses always start on the mortgage belt.

High LVR (all my neighbours have 0 LVR including ourselves), unsafe jobs that disappear overnight (from blue collar to bottom feeder white collar jobs), FHO that spend more than they can afford.

Predicted this 3 years ago on this forum but everyone was angry when I made that prediction. Said "my mortgage belt blah blah house has gone up more than what you'd ever make (ie $80k in value)", "mining boom will go on forever, Australia will never have job losses", "they're building a new habour 30 kms out, watch it one day replace the CBD". Well as history repeats itself, the mortgage belt is the first to fall. I suspect one of the reasons we hear less of these comments now is because the same people making them are either out of a job or distressed sellers.
 
I'd argue that what brings prices down is forced sales. If these aren't happening in significant numbers, and sellers can hold out, then the market won't show a significant fall. That's what's been happening in the UK, and this piece from the BBC makes for interesting, and depressing reading.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18607088

In fact, over here we're seeing asking prices increase relative to sales prices. The Right Move index (what sellers are asking) has remained pretty flat for years despite selling prices falling.

from all the d&g I hear from over there I was thinking I could go and buy my old flat back for the same sort of money I sold it for in 2000 (maybe less?!)...seems it is still worth about 3 times what I sold it for which is depressing. Now i will have to go online and comment on every real estate article I can find that the great crash is coming and only greater fools are buying! if i wish for it hard enough it may happen
 
Where did you get that stat from? Talking to local agents potray a different picture, they are saying lot of developers have jumped in by paying high $ for a block of land and have started with sub division, however with little or no immigration (students specially from overseas), stock is increasing without being consumed at same pace as it used to 2 years back

G'Day

Sorry, it seems that I was wrong

According to the government Statistician http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Latestproducts/3218.0Media%20Release12010-11?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3218.0&issue=2010-11&num=&view= Melbourne's population increased by 66,900 people in the year 2010-2011

So that makes 1,286 people per week, not the 1,000 which I so glibly mentioned.

I shall endeavour to reference and acknowledge sources of information which I may include in future posts

Regards
 
G'Day

Sorry, it seems that I was wrong

According to the government Statistician http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Latestproducts/3218.0Media%20Release12010-11?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3218.0&issue=2010-11&num=&view= Melbourne's population increased by 66,900 people in the year 2010-2011

So that makes 1,286 people per week, not the 1,000 which I so glibly mentioned.

I shall endeavour to reference and acknowledge sources of information which I may include in future posts

Regards

I didn't think you made mistakes Kristine:eek:
 
There is no oversupply of quality dwellings near the CBD so the 'Melbourne' market will be fine for those who stick to Melbourne and not places like Cranbourne or Clyde.

Tell me about it.

On Sat we took the boys to Mt.Baw Baw for the day. I hadn't been there for absolutely ages, and we took the route through the back of Cranbourne, Berwick etc, until it linked up with the Princes hwy eventually (should have gone Eastlink then Princes hwy).

Hadn't been that way in several years.

I was thinking "yay; we'll be out of civilisation soon; nice quiet roads, countryside; no humans....."

It took bloody ages to get out into the wide open spaces and into peace; the Edward Scissorhand housing estates went on forever it seemed. I couldn't believe how far east the sprawl had gone.

Melbourne's population increased by 66,900 people in the year 2010-2011
That's almost an MCG-full every year...where are all these people coming from?
 
Last edited:
According to the government Statistician http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Latestproducts/3218.0Media%20Release12010-11?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3218.0&issue=2010-11&num=&view= Melbourne's population increased by 66,900 people in the year 2010-2011

So that makes 1,286 people per week, not the 1,000 which I so glibly mentioned.

But look at the level of construction Victoria has seen in comparison:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/DetailsPage/8752.0Dec 2011?OpenDocument

Some 50,000 dwelling units through 2011 and construction is STILL booming with apartment output not expected to peak until next year:

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/...met-in-2014-charter-keck-kramer/2012052354814

Perhaps you think 50,000 dwelling units is not enough to house the 67,000 new inhabitants? Do you know what the average number of residents per dwelling unit is? It's 2.6, so 50,000 dwelling units will house roughly 130,000 people.

There are a couple of things I haven't taken into account (e.g. destruction of dwellings to make room for new developments, higher level of apartment construction might drop the average residents per dwelling units, construction numbers are for Victoria not Melbourne specifically), but there has clearly been more construction than required and it's still coming...
 
Back
Top