How to deal with this dodgy builder?

[Melbournian]

the only saving grace or argument is that the carpenter/trade insurance certificate does not cover his sub-trades which you can say you are waiting on which he has yet to provide.

Or you can say you asked him to come back but he refused to and gave an invoice which was incorrect. an after X amount of time - there was no conclusion. i know he left the key under the carpet which he didn't notify you so technically you assumed he had the key.

i had a trade once claim he could not see coz the bathrooms were dark when he was tiling in the day and there were lights. they all come up with all kind of excuses so best to have you gameface ready for any possible scenarios

if you go the the tribunal - keep emotions at bay and stick to the facts and you will be alright. You should also keep a note and diary of your time as all this back and forth debates with the carpenter will only mean lost of income on your behalf.

 

[MsAli]

I have had a couple of issues go to Fair Trading, as has a friend of mine. In all cases, they expected the company to have a chance to rectify the problem. Where we hadnt allowed them to, they wouldn't progress the issue any further. Same with our friends.... first step was to allow company to rectify.

So, I think this is a problem with your side of the claim.

Even if they are not licensed nor insured to do the work?...For the umpteenth time, he was not licensed to subcontract. He said the prep was done and the point that we believed (and confirmed with a painter) that it wasn't was our opinion and not a fact. He was never going to agree to fix it. And why should he be given a chance? He's not even authorised to be doing what he did. Plus attempts to not pay tax.

We had a similar issue with a smash repairer. He wasn't licensed and kept the car for weeks without fixing and when he did fix it he left works incomplete. Fair Trading gave him time to get the right licenses however said since he did not have the eligibility to do the works, he had to reach the compromise, to which he said he was happy to refund so we could get our car fixed to satisfactory levels.

 

[weg]

We've only had one case where it proceded to a hearing and an onsite inspection with FT.

The inspection was to decide what was acceptable, and what needed rectifying.

In our case 1 item was found to need rectifying, and was done with a screwdriver in 3 minutes (crooked paver), but the customer wanted the entire job redone or to not pay, because in his opinion it was all below standard.

Ended up he accused FT of working for the tradesman as they walked away.

Now my husbands is a perfectionist and HATES rectifying things so does it right the first time, so being the only time, the other guy was the problem.

Your painters work does look a sloppy in places, and I would guess a few fix ups will need to be done, as well as working out what 'prep' is standard and what isn't (if not clear in the written quote/contract).

FT sounds like the only way this will be resolved fairly.

 

[MsAli]

Thanks weg...we have all evidence. Need to attach a few quotes. Will get relo to organise these in the next few working days.

 

[MsAli]

i think it is best get all your documentation in order. email, what transpired etc notes ,pictures, diaries.

he will most likely say that he didn't get a chance to rectify any of the faults and fair trading will be asking you what you did to ensure he got a chance to have a go. As to whether he was rude, difficult is irrelevant and the only chance is the conversations were noted through email as to whether he said he would come back, did the painter come back and did you meet with him to discuss it? (as i mentioned earlier in the post).

have you done your investigations as to what the insurance certificate covers? him as a carpenter or as a builder that covers all his sub trades. this would be key if his insurance does not cover trades - you have every right to refuse someone to enter your property to do the work. not sure what he is on about the courts but in ViC it is just a tribunal. he would have to cough up a couple of grand just to get the ball rolling in the magistrates court.

scare tactics if you ask me.

you could respond which is best (as it is seems that he would claim you are ignoring payment due to the fact that you have not responded)

Melbournian, his insurance certificate only applied to carpentry. So as you say...should he have been allowed on site?

He's been responded to and told that fair trading haven't gotten back. They said they will in the next week.

 

[Melbournian]

without proper insurance cover - nope unless he is solely doing carpentry.

if it were me - i would have replied back saying (as fair trading will take into account communications and lack of it etc)

"i would have been happy to have your painter return onsite to assess and rectify any issues (although you're really not) but your insurance certificate does not cover sub-contractors and therefore there is a risk in terms of workcover safety and in the event that something does occur there are potential liablities to me. Unless you have a legitimate insurance to cover your sub contractors, please do let me know"

Also throw in the excerpt from the act where it says the builder's contract can be voided in the event where they are unlicensed to perform the job. Highlight to him the consequences of being unlicensed etc etc.

 

[MsAli]

Yep all this was put in earlier emails. Should we say this again? He'd been responded to and I was thinking if we email the above again, he might think his scare tactics are working.

 

[Melbournian]

if it were me, i would reconfirm what you said in the past and bold the letters size 14 or something and say that any future correspondance should be through dispute resolution processes and through fair trading and you consider his emails very haressment and abusive.

that should sum it up - seems like this chippie is a scumbag if you ask me.

And then just ignore and wait - many of these trades they like to pull this kind of hardline threats.

in vic, he would also need the property owners correct name and mailing address -so in other words, if he does not have these info - how would he be able to get to the tribunal stage? i know of owners chasing trades who have moved 10 times and only after a 1.5 year able to take him into the tribunal and court but that is for a major building default of close to 50K, which justifies all that effort.

 

[MsAli]

Cheers Melbournian. Thanks for your input.

Would do the same and let's see what's next!

 

[pinkboy]

Melbournian

Just out of interest sake, what is the Vic $$$ threshold at VCAT? In Qld it's $25k before you have to go to magistrate court.

pinkboy

 

[Melbournian]

Melbournian

Just out of interest sake, what is the Vic $$$ threshold at VCAT? In Qld it's $25k before you have to go to magistrate court.

pinkboy

i don't think there is a threshold but it's more expensive to go to magistrate's court as oppose to going to a tribunal for less than a $100 for civil disputes.

 

[MsAli]

It's been a while since monalisa and I updated on this issue. So for those interested here goes...

Along with monalisa I prepared the documentation for Fair Trading. Fair Trading suggested the carpenter (disguised as a builder) wasn't licensed to be sub contracting and had breached their by laws on many counts. Issues to do with unlicensed tradies are put through to the tribunal. I further prepared documentation along with quotations for the tribunal (Should ask my aunt for a copy that she had as it can make a good case study and a compilation of the lengthy factual emails we wrote along with referencing to the various building acts). Our aunt met him at the tribunal. A negotiation meant he agreed to return $1000 out of the $1,934 we had asked for a refund on. At that meeting the guy said he had to declare bankruptcy and shut his business and was working for an employer from where he took a day off to visit the tribunal. As per LinkedIn he is now working as a manager for a doors company.

Thanks to all who supported and thanks to all those who doubted as well .

It was a positive outcome for us. Truth prevails.

 

[Terry_w]

Ms Ali, thanks for the feedback. Not many people come back to post what happens so we are often left wondering.

He agreed to give back $1000 but will declare bankruptcy? Doesn't this mean your aunt won't get her $1000 back?

 

[MsAli]

Cheers Terry.

He did a bank transfer of $1000...I am guessing that's cos he was working now. But he said he had to declare bankruptcy and shut his business well before the tribunal date arrived.

He stopped harassing too once Fair Trading got in touch with us to confirm that he was being investigated.

 

[Terry_w]

Well you have the cash, that is the main thing. He probably just meant he had to close his business (and probably alleged it was because of this) and was not formally bankrupt. If he was bankrupt he wouldn't have to pay.

 

[MsAli]

Well you have the cash, that is the main thing. He probably just meant he had to close his business (and probably alleged it was because of this) and was not formally bankrupt. If he was bankrupt he wouldn't have to pay.

Ah...fair enough. Yeh we are pleased with the outcome. Wasn't the full amount we wanted but something better than nothing. The painter and the carpenter thought that our aunty was a single mother so they can stuff her around and do a half fast job....But they weren't aware that she had support to sort the mess out...