Hypothetical. August, 2033.

...told ya...!:p

So, do the concerned farmers of the Liverpool Plains still think highly of Tony Windsor...?
Their mantra was....and I quote a certain member of that group..."if you don't support us we won't support you...."...?


I'd have sold out too if I was offered 2 times what the dirt was worth and was going to be living 500 metres away from a coal mine.

The biggest critic is Anderson, who is on the board of a coal seem gas mob. :D



...So....looks like Windsor will lose all those votes...?:rolleyes:
...?


:p


See ya's.
 
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Hey TC...

So you don't mind saying, to any of the farmers that are active in opposing this, that you'd sell out to the mines if they ask...?

I had a torrid time with a couple of the 'activists' I can tell ya, and it was not nice at all....

It's no wonder they are alienating the town folk who see jobs, growth and security.....:(

Have a good weekend in Surfers.....I reckon you;re doing DD on a Penthouse....!!!:D Good luck to ya!:)
 
Hey TC...

So you don't mind saying, to any of the farmers that are active in opposing this, that you'd sell out to the mines if they ask...?


Yeah, I'd probably sell out if offered twice what my land was worth which seems to be the going rate. Most are taking it. But keep it to your self for flips sake eh.



See ya's.
 
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Something similar happened when the Japanese fell in love with Cairns. The smart land holders sold and the smartest bought back, cheaper, a few years later.

Take the money and let the world solve it's problems without you.
 
Just don't worry about it Mate,i'm more interested on the World price for Wheat ,never seen a spike in prices like that,and Oil is starting to run again..willair


Wheat went limit up again! Amazing. Into the $8 per bushel now, from $4.50 or so.

The fundamentals don't seem to be there of a repeat of the last grain boom in 07/08. There is more stocks in reserve now than last time.

Maybe russias crop is a lot worse than reports. Apparently they banned wheat exports last night. Dunno?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...on-russian-drought-corn-soybeans-advance.html


The old man wanted to flog all our sorghum off yesterday, but I banned him from selling any more for a while. Anything could happen from here but I reckon we are much closer to the top than the bottom.


See ya's.
 
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...do you have a Prime Minister for Australia in 2033 TC...? Name and party...?


The Libs won last year, 2032. They have a popular young bloke in there, Mr Nathan Birch, tall impressive looking fello, was a successfull businessman and developer from Sydney, multi-millionaire. Seems to be doing a great job, and fixed a few things up that the labor/greens coallition ballsed up and has started paying back the half trillion debt they racked up,

I can't see him being as good as the libs prime minister, the late honerable Mr W Wolf, from back in the early 20's. Wow!, did he ever get in and clean up the dead wood. Cut back immigration, got business roaring, but boy, did the unions ever have a hissy fit, and when he ordered the army in to clean up those greeny protestors who were blocking the royal national park nuclear power station construction and there were some deaths, he lost some popularity and charisma. Especially when some TV footage appeared of the aging prime minister laughing whilest manning a water cannon blowing some protesters off their feet.

Too bad Mr Wolf and some of his body guards got cleaned up early one morning on their push bikes by a 40 tonne semi trailer driven by a lunatic commy greeny lefty, on one of the bridges crossing lake Burley Griffin, Canberra in 26. First death of a serving PM since Harrold Holt. Poor bugger, he was as flat as a pancake they reckon and he had to be scrapped up off the road by a shovel.



See ya's.
 
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brilliant! although you missed the bit about the property baron topcropper building his mega dam in kakadu national park to irrigate his holdings, formally known as the northern territory.
 
Wheat went limit up again! Amazing. Into the $8 per bushel now, from $4.50 or so.

The fundamentals don't seem to be there of a repeat of the last grain boom in 07/08. There is more stocks in reserve now than last time.

Maybe russias crop is a lot worse than reports. Apparently they banned wheat exports last night. Dunno?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...on-russian-drought-corn-soybeans-advance.html


The old man wanted to flog all our sorghum off yesterday, but I banned him from selling any more for a while. Anything could happen from here but I reckon we are much closer to the top than the bottom.


See ya's.

some hedge fund chatter that was sent to me yesterday:
US crops in excellent condition, so its not a US shortage, but rather a Russian and European shortage (due to hotter summer conditions and drought) coupled with increased foreign demand.

The weak US dollar is 'adding' to the price in US$.
Strategy: add to positions on the dips, do not sell into strength.

(of course as with everything concerning hedgefunds, this could change on a dime)
 
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The inevitable shortage of oil is going to cause real problems, as there's very little that can replace it.

The energy density of diesel is roughly sixty times that of cutting edge lithium batteries (i.e. 60 kg of batteries to replace 1 kg of diesel), and that's going to make life difficult for shipping (wind or nuclear powered cargo ships) and aviation.

That said, the Skylon project is hydrogen powered, could be developed into a hypersonic passenger plane, and looks like something out of a Gerry Anderson TV show. So it's not all doom and gloom. :D

So I'd guess that you'll see increasing manufacturing on a local basis. A friend is working on a project to build windsurfing boards in Tunisia for the European market, whereas his competitors use the Far East. That could prove to be a smart strategy.

The issue of an ageing population is only a problem if retirement is set at 65. My father's 67 and is still doing a job that can be physically demanding, and he knows older people in the building trade.

One solution is mass migration, and politicians seem to like that as it doesn't mean any sacrifices by the current generation. But that strikes me as deferring the problem rather than solving it.

There was an interesting piece on asset prices and ageing populations posted here on the FT Alphaville blog.

My guess is that attitudes are going to change. Retirement in the 70s could well become the norm within a generation, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It won't be popular with the unions though.

I suspect that the financial industry is in a bubble, and at some point in the next ten or twenty years it's going to be a lot smaller than it is now.

The reason that I'm saying this is that the banking sector is behaving in exactly the same way as it did prior to the crisis, has been actively lobbying to block or water down reform, but now has an implicit government guarantee that any losses will be socialised.

So any retrenchment is going to be painful for the rest of us.

The US could go the way of Greece, only a couple of orders of magnitude bigger. Its fiscal position (national debt and budget deficit) are in the same category as the PIGS, only its economy is significantly larger.

Unless they bring in some sort of austerity programme, the best case might well be a Japanese style lost decade or two. The worst case could be a sovereign default on an epic scale.

China probably won't continue to grow at 10% a year.

They've actually got a serious demographic problem there. The one child policy is now over thirty years old, and is going to lead to a rapidly ageing population (the rate will be faster than the EU's).

A few years back there were commentators suggesting that China might never make it to First World living standards as a consequence.

I also suspect that the Party will lose its grip on power at some point in the next decade or two. Whilst the Chinese that I've met aren't that political, I'd expect increasing education and wealth to drive change. The Party isn't that popular, is widely viewed as corrupt by the population, so when it becomes seen as a hindrance it'll go. And probably very suddenly like in Eastern Europe.

Lastly, house prices.

Procter and Gamble and Unilever are predicting that consumers won't be buying much in the next five years, and that the economy will be pretty flat for that time. (See here and here.)

OK, that refers more to the US and EU market than Australia, so it depends on what extent they're decoupled. But it looks like the next few years are going to be a lot poorer than the last decade, unfortunately.

If I can put my Doom and Gloom hat on a for a second, it's possible that prices in 2033 might not be that much higher than now.

Suppose that Steve Keen was proven right, and thereafter prices rose with incomes (I'm using 3.5% per annum as a rough figure) then they'd be worth about 30% more in 2033 than they are now.

My last prediction is that house prices will collapse by 50% the minute I buy one. :D
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish
I'm sure the Romans felt that way too.
ah - but if you know your history then you know that the roman seriously needed "fixing up".
Can you help me out on this? Are you suggesting that the US and the Keynsian economies generally have got it all in control and need no "fixing"?
 
in the end the roman empire relied entirely on increasing it's conquered territories to supply all the financial and physical requirements of rome ... power and wealth were the domain of the few, and the few kept the masses from revolting by staging ever more elaborate "games" and competitions with free food and drink to keep them sodden and otherwise occupied.

a real ponzi scheme if you ever saw one - and poised to come tumbling down the moment there were either no more territories to conquer, or the conquered overthru the romans.
 
in the end the roman empire relied entirely on increasing it's conquered territories to supply all the financial and physical requirements of rome ... power and wealth were the domain of the few, and the few kept the masses from revolting by staging ever more elaborate "games" and competitions with free food and drink to keep them sodden and otherwise occupied.

a real ponzi scheme if you ever saw one - and poised to come tumbling down the moment there were either no more territories to conquer, or the conquered overthru the romans.
Great.

I can see similarities, and not just "passing" ones. Empires die as you attest. The Roman empire lasted a few centuries but it took real time for truth to be known. They had been clipping/debasing their currency for most of that time but "the truth" took a long time to be recognised. Next Monday I will know, real time, how much the US$ has been debased. Big difference.
 
Great thread. Funny, because this is what a group of mates and I were idly talking about a couple weeks ago, guessing what the world would be like towards the end of our lives - so more like 2060-2070 than 2033, but scale aside, this is similar to what we see happening as well.

I think what came out of that conversation, was that people don't seem to understand that in the real world, exponential series very rarely can continue past a few cycles. It's possible for example, for oil prices to double every year for a decade... But then the next jump is so ridiculously high, that long before it gets there, someone invents, finds or uses an oil replacement. A year prior to that however, people will scoff and say "We won't find one in time." or "Even if you could replace petrol, you can't replace plastic" etc.

Likewise, it's possible for population to double every 15 years, but then when food runs out... Starving people don't have kids - or governments say 1 child per family only.

It's possible we're only 1 cycle away from drastic change - that instead, by 2070 (or 2033), the world population has dropped, it's peaceful aside from a handful of extremists, and productivity is up and want is down... A kind of utopia. I'd say it's less likely than your scenario - but with abrupt cycle breaking changes it's possible.

Let's say oil does get to $350/barrel between now and 2033. It got there because of global warming. A 1% rise in temperature and CO2 concentration increase means that food production skyrockets 30%. The world no longer worries about food. During that period, those 60% efficient solar panels which are commercial unviable became viable due to high demand and high comparative costs (Currently only the ones in the 14-17% efficiency range are viable). With virtually unlimited free energy, production and transport processes become far more efficient, and world manufacturing productivity rises.

With fewer in need, and people enjoying life of plenty, even ideological wars are minimised.

Likely? No. Possible? Yes. Always hard to see which way the dice will fall.
 
It got there because of global warming. A 1% rise in temperature and CO2 concentration increase means that food production skyrockets 30%. The world no longer worries about food.


Global warming could very well increase global food production. Global cooling has always been disasterous and causes famine historically, so warming should be better despite the propoganda campain. It's forecast that I will get wetter summers and dryer winters, so I'd be happy with that, and with higher CO2 my production should increase. I can adjust planting dates if it gets warmer so the plant grows in the same climate.

But even if it increased production by 30%, that's no where near enough apparently.


http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...on-must-double-scientists-20100802-111rs.html



The world is facing the monumental challenge of doubling its food production by 2050 with fewer resources, scientists say.

More than 1800 scientists are in Brisbane for the 19th World Congress of Soil Science, with food security a key focus.

With the global population expected to top 9.2 billion by 2050, experts say the world will need to repeat the Green Revolution that saw food production double between 1960 and 1985.

But with less land, water and fertiliser available, the focus will have to be on working smarter.

The chief of the CSIRO's land and water division Dr Neil McKenzie told the congress that Australia currently feeds 60 million people but faces major challenges to increase production.

"Maintaining adequate food production levels in light of increasing population, climate change impacts, increasing costs of energy, constraints on carbon, land degradation and the finite supply of productive soils is a major challenge," he said.



As countries like China lift themselves out of poverty, they start eating meat and milk and eggs and beer etc, which means food requirements go through the roof. Australia grows enough food for 60 million people on a westerner diet, but if we were feeding Ethiopians we'd have enough food for 200 million of them.

But food productivity is slowing as all the easy to do things have been done. Fertilizer gave the greatest lift, but thats it, it's done. You can only put on the full amount needed.

I reckon it will be like sporting records. As humans refine their skills and fitness, the percentage gains get ever less and less. Like say the Australian mens swimming 1500 m record holders.


Boy Charlton.........20:06.....1924

Murray Rose.........17:59.....1956

John Konrads........17:11.....1960

Stephen Holland....15:10.....1976.

Kieren perkins.......14:43.....1992.

Grant Hackett......14:34.....2000.


The records are getting harder and harder to break as we reach the limits of human ability.

The scientists who reckon food production is going to double again must think humans will be swimming the 1500 in 10 minutes in 40 years, it's simply not going to happen. I'd say it will not get below 14 minutes.


See ya's.
 
The scientists who reckon food production is going to double again must think humans will be swimming the 1500 in 10 minutes in 40 years, it's simply not going to happen. I'd say it will not get below 14 minutes.

Hi TC

GMO is the potential sleeper here. Wait twenty years for Monsanto to get their hand out of the kitty and make the technology more widely available at lower cost, as well as better suited for its applications and we might just be on to a winner.

Although not for farmers unfortunately - technological change benefits the product users, not the producers! Good for us in the cities and developing world though.

For those who are concerned about the risks involved in tampering with a system we barely understand, well the same logic applies to climate change. No idea whether the benefits outweigh the risks but no doubt we shall find out soon enough regardless...

As for oil - there are higher priced alternatives, not to mention pleny of worldwide capacity to use a lot less of the stuff than we currently do. People might start using public transport for a start! I agree our current situation leaves us highly exposed to shocks from peak oil etc but I am more optimistic about our ability to adapt to higher energy prices in the long term through behavioural and technological change. But the significantly higher prices are certainly inevitable and will be a rude shock to some...
 
Hi TC

GMO is the potential sleeper here. Wait twenty years for Monsanto to get their hand out of the kitty and make the technology more widely available at lower cost, as well as better suited for its applications and we might just be on to a winner.

Although not for farmers unfortunately - technological change benefits the product users, not the producers! Good for us in the cities and developing world though.

...


Monsanto don't have to make it cheaper. They know how much money a farmer will save by having bug resistant crops that can be sprayed for weeds with roundup, so they charge what they know a farmer will pay. Of course the farmer doesn't have to use monsanto's product, but they all do.

Monsanto is charging I think $315 per hectare to grow their cotton this year. The farmer might only have to spray once, or even not at all for bugs, when 15 years ago it might have been 10 or 15 insecticide sprays. Then there is a few cheap roundup sprays for weeds, when 15 years ago there was numerous expensive herbicide sprays and even a manual chipping with a hoe. Just a guess, but there might be $1000 per hectare savings, so he's happy to pay monsanto $315. Cotton is probably 100% monsanto GM now, and a farmer would be crazy not to grow it.



I love this chart. Long term US corn yields.

i1087-3562-9-1-1-f01.gif



There was a slump in the 30's from ever declining soil fertility and the 'dust bowl' years. Ploughing the guts out of the land. Then chemical fertilizers and hybrid seeds were introduced. The 60's saw herbicides and pesticides introduced and 70's and 80's it was roundup and minimum/zero tillage. Genetic Modified corn started in the 90's and of the 330 million tonnes of US corn grown, it's almost all GM today, as is cotton and soy.

GM crops are already grown in the US, Brazil, Argentina, India, Canada, China and other places. The Chinese just took the technology without paying monsanto, which is typical.

So GM is already largely factored in and we can see the production improvement. GM is more about making crops easier and cheaper to grow than yield improvement. Of course there will be new traits added, but I still reckon the growth in yields will slow.


See ya's.
 
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