Inflation exploding...house prices sinking...What will the RBA do?

North freakin' Dakota? Where the heck did that come from?

I confess a certain ignorance about banking, but I'm utterly out to lunch on that particular pinnacle of international banking practice. WTF?

(If you can't give me a 3000-word essay on that by Monday, young Ocean, you'll be looking at a 'D' in Applied Microtrivia.)

Abolish banking? Why would we want that?

Banking was invented because there was a need - and not a usurious conspiracy - wasn't it, Herr Architect?
By monday? LOL B Banger you're playing with the wrong guy :D

North Dakota is the only modern bank with a mandate to help the public good. All banks in Australia (including the RBA) are private banks motivated by one thing and one thing only - profit. They don't care about the Australian public. All they care about is keeping the economy running in such a way that they can keep collecting interest and being rich. That's it. They can invest in anything they like - they'll lend to strip clubs, brothels, nuclear waste dumps, whatever - as long as there is money to be made. Let's say there's some awesome scheme that would benefit the public hugely - the modern equivalent of the Snowy Mountains Scheme, like, say, the Bradley Scheme, but it doooeesssnnn't quite make enough money - then the banks don't care. They'll lend the money to the brothels and strip clubs instead.

By way of contrast, the Bank of North Dakota is an institution that lends money towards various projects that benefit the public good - certain forms of agricultural development etc - things that benefit the economy in the region. They don't take many risks, and despite making a lower rate of profit, still make good money. Also, because they don't lend to obvious ponzi schemes or highly speculative investments, the state of North Dakota has a very healthy economy and they can actually afford to pay their teachers (unlike everyone else, where they're laying off teachers/cops/firemen etc)

In the case of the original commonwealth bank and WW2, Australia couldn't afford to borrow money off private banks to pay for guns/ships/bullets etc - and so they issued currency backed by the government at extremely low interest which then enabled Australia to keep the national economy going whilst still having enough money to fund a war.

So the difference between a nationally backed currency and the fiat, debt profit based currency we use today is that the profits kept by bankers is the missing money required to keep economies going. These bankers have us by the balls. When they want the economy to run hot, they lend out lots of money. Then when they want the economy to contract so that they keep a higher proportion of GDP, they don't let so much money out, the economy shrinks, and people pay a greater proportion of their wealth to the banks who, at the same time, nicely forclose on properties and keep them as personal assets.

As you alluded to, our system is usurious in nature, with interest being charged on money that doesn't exist (ie you get a loan, get hit on day 1 with interest, and then you have to pay interest on that interest even though that money doesn't actually exist - the only thing that exists is the obligation to pay by the borrower).

I'm not saying abolish banking - obviously economies run more efficiently with a good banking system so that normal trade may occur - but I do think that the current system should be changed so that the RBA doesn't get to decide whenever they feel like it to alter the money supply, interest rates, and therefore, the entire economy as they see fit, and especially, for their personal benefit.

Whenever you have private enterprises yielding such massive power, you can bet your bottom dollar that they're going to use that power for their own benefit. These bankers don't care that the middle class are losing their homes, nor that the welfare class struggles to eat - regardless of "the economy" and "statistics", these guys are living like kings, and acquiring massive portfolios of assets on teh cheap because in times of hardship, they're the only ones with any money to buy anything, and so they can purchase real assets at a fraction of their real cost - then, when they let some more money out in the next manufactured "boom", those assets skyrocket in value and they live like mega kings while we work our way out of a hole that they dug.

I believe that government should be responsible for producing currency, and should benefit from that - not private banks. These bastar*s are making money on the way up, and on the way down, with the lower and middle class paying for it.

Any way you slice it, it is class warfare, whether you want to call it such or no.
 
You have Stockholm Syndrome.

Stockholm did not fall in love with his captors. He was realistic in assessing the brutal facts of his captivity at the Hanoi Hilton, was tortured over 20 times during his eight years imprisionment with no certainty of survival and no end date.

He fought an internal war against his captors - even beating himself with a stool, and cutting himself with a razor, so that they couldn't use him as and example of a "well cared for prisoner".

He developed a secret tapping code the inmates used to communicate when talking was denied - and the code was also used in movements (mop swishing etc) to relay messages.

How did he survive when others who would optismitically say "out by Easter" or "out by Christmas" died? They died because they put a limit on their endurance.

He never doubted he would get out. He never lost faith that the war would end and life would prevail. But he never put a date or limit on the when and he had the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of his current reality - and dealt with it.

Falling in love with his captors is a total fallacy.

Deal with it.
 
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Any way you slice it, it is class warfare, whether you want to call it such or no.

oh well ... if you insist.

Just make sure you're on the upper class side, so that you can use your influence and finances to assist those on the lower side.

No point in being a poor matyr
 
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Stockholm did not fall in love with his captors. He was realistic in assessing the brutal facts of his captivity at the Hanoi Hilton, was tortured over 20 times during his eight years imprisionment with no certainty of survival and no end date.

He fought an internal war against his captors - even beating himself with a stool, and cutting himself with a razor, so that they couldn't use him as and example of a "well cared for prisioner".

He developed a secret tapping code the inmates used to communicate when talking was denied - and the code was also used in movements (mop swishing etc) to relay messages.

How did he survive when others who would optismitically say "out by Easter" or "out by Christmas" died? They died because they put a limit on their endurance.

He never doubted he would get out. He never lost faith that the war would end and life would prevail. But he never put a date or limit on the when and he had the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of his current reality - and dealt with it.

Falling in love with his captors is a total fallacy.

Deal with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
 
Stockholm did not fall in love with his captors. He was realistic in assessing the brutal facts of his captivity at the Hanoi Hilton, was tortured over 20 times during his eight years imprisionment with no certainty of survival and no end date.

He fought an internal war against his captors - even beating himself with a stool, and cutting himself with a razor, so that they couldn't use him as and example of a "well cared for prisioner".

He developed a secret tapping code the inmates used to communicate when talking was denied - and the code was also used in movements (mop swishing etc) to relay messages.

How did he survive when others who would optismitically say "out by Easter" or "out by Christmas" died? They died because they put a limit on their endurance.

He never doubted he would get out. He never lost faith that the war would end and life would prevail. But he never put a date or limit on the when and he had the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of his current reality - and dealt with it.

Falling in love with his captors is a total fallacy.

Deal with it.

Stockholm syndromeFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Stockholm syndrome (disambiguation).

Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, StockholmIn psychology, Stockholm syndrome is a term used to describe a paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors as an act of kindness.[1][2] The FBI’s Hostage Barricade Database System shows that roughly 27% of victims show evidence of Stockholm syndrome.[3] The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg in Stockholm, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28, 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their captors, and even defended them after they were freed from their six-day ordeal. The term "Stockholm syndrome" was coined by the criminologist and psychiatrist Nils Bejerot, who assisted the police during the robbery, and referred to the syndrome in a news broadcast.[4] It was originally defined by psychiatrist Frank Ochberg to aid the management of hostage situations.[5]

I'd say I just dealt with it :D
 
oh well ... if you insist.

Just make sure your on the upper class side, so that you can use your influence and finances to assist those on the lower side.

No point in being a poor matyr

Middle class will do me just fine. I'm not addicted to money, I just don't want to have to worry about it too much. So long as I can say, at any time, "bugger it, I'm not working this year" I'm a super happy man :)
 
I very much disagree. I think that the banks knew precisely what they were doing when they loosened up lending criteria a few years ago and tightened it up recently. They knew that it would lead to an explosion in property prices and indebtedness that was unsustainable, and they knew that they could get the government to bail them out whilst squeezing those late into the game (precisely what is happening). I was being offered $500k as a no doc loan (ie outright lies, unchecked income) - that isn't sensible banking. It's predatory banking. The inflation wasn't only imported - it was created.

Australia is a mild case (so far) but if we look at the actions of the US federal reserve, Ireland, Greece etc what we are seeing is that the people who created a lot of financial turmoil are being bailed out by the government, which gets money from the people, so that they can lend back to the people and impose "austerity measures". Increasing interest rates is the same thing - more and more of people's income is going towards mortgage repayments as a proportion of income. Home owners still have a landlord - the bank.

I get quite upset about the fact that the aussie government has guaranteed the debt of the big 4 - I run a couple of businesses, why doesn't the government guarantee my debts? To me, it stinks of corruption and deliberate strategy. The people at the top vs everyone else.

BRAVO! Someone gets it! Spot on. If anyone here doesn't understand what OA is saying, go read a book called "Create from Jekyll Island", it will really open your eyes as to the scam and fraud that is the Federal Reserve and most of the central banks around the world.
 
I get quite upset about the fact that the aussie government has guaranteed the debt of the big 4 - I run a couple of businesses, why doesn't the government guarantee my debts? To me, it stinks of corruption and deliberate strategy. The people at the top vs everyone else.

In business whether one person fails or succeeds is of no consequence in the whole scheme of things. Even if the failure is due to others actions or inactions the individual will be left to pick up the pieces.

If a big business fails then a lot of individuals are impacted at once and in the aftermath questions will be asked at the highest levels about what could have been done to avoid the catastrophe.

But this is not just big business this is life. People are impacted by life everyday, someone will lose a home in a fire and it won't even make the papers however if 200 people lose their homes then it is a disaster and the appeals start.

Does this mean that a bushfire that wipes out homes is a conspiracy, or is it just human nature to concern itself with the big and ignore the small?

Although I agree that it may appear unfair that the government will kick in to help out large enterprises facing uncertainty it has more to do with looking after the big picture. When faced with the GFC and a claim by the banks what was the government to do, provide assistance or make themselves a scap goat if everything went South?

If the actions of the governement and the banks is a conspiracy then everything is a conspiracy because the little guy will always be screwed.

Regards

Andrew
 
well there's a green light for a mass screwing. Eastpac did a great job of it during the GFC, expanded the balance sheet and knocked out some competition and sent a whole bunch of folk to the wall just because they could - happy days there.
 
In business whether one person fails or succeeds is of no consequence in the whole scheme of things. Even if the failure is due to others actions or inactions the individual will be left to pick up the pieces.

If a big business fails then a lot of individuals are impacted at once and in the aftermath questions will be asked at the highest levels about what could have been done to avoid the catastrophe.

But this is not just big business this is life. People are impacted by life everyday, someone will lose a home in a fire and it won't even make the papers however if 200 people lose their homes then it is a disaster and the appeals start.
Hang on a second. Haaaaaaang on a second. What makes these banks indispensable? Why should there be a system in place where certain entities are so entrenched, so pervading, that the rest of the world is held hostage? That's the kind of thinking that gave rise to the "too big to fail" malarky that saw the American, Irish, and Greek middle class robbed of their wealth.

That is absolute rubbish. No offense Andrew, but I find such thinking offensive.

The ACCC is there to stop price fixing. The ACCC blocks certain acquisitions so that certain companies don't have unfair market share. Why is the banking system exempt? Why should banks or other financial institutions be allowed to get so large that they can rape and pillage entire economies with no consequences?

I say break the banks up. Why should there be a big 4? Why not the small 400? In business you're meant to spread risk and exposure - why shouldn't this apply to an essential system? ESPECIALLY when we, the tax payers, are the ones underwriting these businesses?

Does this mean that a bushfire that wipes out homes is a conspiracy, or is it just human nature to concern itself with the big and ignore the small?

Although I agree that it may appear unfair that the government will kick in to help out large enterprises facing uncertainty it has more to do with looking after the big picture. When faced with the GFC and a claim by the banks what was the government to do, provide assistance or make themselves a scap goat if everything went South?

If the actions of the governement and the banks is a conspiracy then everything is a conspiracy because the little guy will always be screwed.

Regards

Andrew
The big picture? Really? Okay then, let us compare two recent examples of systemic failure in the banking system - the Irish vs the Icelandic examples

In Iceland, there was a banking collapse. The banks wanted the Icelanders to underwrite their failures and suffer austerity in order to pay back Austrian and British banks. The Icelanders told them to bugger off. They suffered a year or two of economic hardship, but now are flying high.

In Ireland, the opposite happened. The Irish government sold out to the banks, and Ireland is in turmoil with no end in sight, and even after bailing the banks out, they're insolvent all over again.

So the "bigger picture" here is whether or not we expect our governments to represent us fairly, creating and fostering systems that work, or whether they're going to eternally offer our prosperity annd those of future generations to a bunch of scoundrels and thieves who live under one set of rules while we live under another.

edit: I noticed that my tone in this post sounds harsh - it isn't directed at you, Andrew. I'm merely very passionate about this issue and think it's a scam.

cheerios
 
Okay, now I see what you're big issues with banks are: (1) Our big 4 are too big, and (2) They're run solely to the immense advantage of their even more immense bigwigs. I'm no authority, but I think you're well off target calling these examples of class warfare.

As to (1) Our big 4 are too big! - Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the big 4 got that big in a free market, didn't they? (Ignoring the period during WWII as transitory, and that the CBA was government-owned until the privatisation float I missed out on, dammit). Wouldn't their investors be just a little bit peeved if they were broken up into untold pieces and scattered to the winds? Wouldn't it be just a little bit totalitarian of the government of a liberal democratic country to do something like that? Are you actually advocating a revolutionary state seizure of the key private enterprises that circulate the lifeblood of our economy?

Coming back to the North Dakota example (about which I know nothing but what you've written in your homework, young Ocean), didn't the government there simply support the creation of a new bank, rather than enforce the transmutation of an existing one? Didn't the government supply guarantees of anything for that enterprise? (I suspect it very much did.) It sounds like a government-subsidised community-action bank. Nothing wrong with that, but hardly a viable model for all modern trillion-dollar banking operations, surely?

And, isn't the Australian 4 piilars policy precisely about structurally ensuring the existence of competition as far as it may between the big 4 (preventing their coalescence into a duolopy, for example)? And isn't Australia encouraging international banks to open up shop here, to increase inter-bank competition?

As to (2) Their bigwigs are self-serving! - You've suggested as I understand it that the RBA is a private enterprise, which is a claim curious enough to be bordering on bizarre. It is independent, and is self-funded by its money market activities, but it's hardly a private concern. I know it's bigwigs are well paid too, but they aren't exactly raking its revenues into their own pockets. Those still belong to the government. And while I agree the big 4 bank bigwigs are exorbitantly renumerated, that again's just the going market rate for people that take on so much responsibility requiring such phenomenal business acumen. Would really you want our banks run by work experience postings drawn by lot from the long-term unemployed?

What I think is that you're really angry at bankers because of the GFC. Heck, who isn't?

But bankers by themselves didn't create the conditions of possibility for the GFC.

Non-recourse loans, abandonment of financial markets oversight, and the collective greed of many millions in the USA did that. And much of the rest of the world (Australia aside) was more than happy to pull down their pants and join the party! The bankers simply took advantage of that opportunity to make themselves and their shareholders a massive amount of money. We're talking systemic failure here though, not a bigwigs' plot. You can only pillage and loot those who let their defences down.

Someone wise once said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Someone not quite so wise once said that the price of freedom is the abolition of capitalism. Now which one these two sages do you reckon invented the theory of class warfare?
 
As to (1) Our big 4 are too big! - Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the big 4 got that big in a free market, didn't they? (Ignoring the period during WWII as transitory, and that the CBA was government-owned until the privatisation float I missed out on, dammit). Wouldn't their investors be just a little bit peeved if they were broken up into untold pieces and scattered to the winds?
When you look at all the Banks balance sheets,total assets and low gearing that they have,and the strategy in place i still can't understand why people complain about Banks just invest in them,and walk up the letter box 2 times a year and let someone else take care of all the worry ..
 
You're tarring all bankers with one brush. Overseas they were all lunatics (Iceland, Ireland, USA, et al), but here in Oz we only had self-serving scum. There's a massive difference! Okay, they got paid a lot, but they did their jobs well. Surely that's now self-evident?
[/I]?

They only became lunatics because they got bailed out?

Was it really because they did their jobs well or was it because the government saw what was occurring in the US and decided to react to it by creating massive stimulus measures? E.g. Give every taxpayer $900, rebuild entire schools, offer free insulation, solar energy, triple home owners grants, relax foreign investment rules for companies and those wishing to buy property, offer bank guarantees (causing huge exits from managed funds to the banks), launched a loan distraught program that would assist people with mortgage difficulty whereby their interests were deferred for 12 months and the government would cover the shortfall..

During the same period we saw record amounts of foreign investors buying up homes, first home owners taking out loans to buy homes causing the property market to skyrocket. When property goes up, it's great for the banks, but what if they went the other way, would you sit here and say our banks were doing a great job?

It looks like we skipped a recession but we went from surplus to a big black hole now....
 
OCEAN ARCHITECT has got it spot on...

The book suggested above is a great read, anything on the fraudulent banking system is a good read.

It still amazes me how people still don't know the RBA is a PRIVATE bank. Servicing the interest of their people, how such a bank can control the country's' economy is absurd...
 
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Bullion Baron (not Hobo Jo?), enlighten me, please. The RBA is a private bank? I'll admit again, I'm no expert, so if I'm wrong I'll wear it happily. The RBA is a private enterprise? Please explain.
 
why people complain about Banks just invest in them,and walk up the letter box 2 times a year and let someone else take care of all the worry ..

That is what i tell people who complain about bank fees. Don't put your money in the bank buy their shares, as shareholders are above customers in the grand scheme of things.
 
Bullion Baron (not Hobo Jo?), enlighten me, please. The RBA is a private bank? I'll admit again, I'm no expert, so if I'm wrong I'll wear it happily. The RBA is a private enterprise? Please explain.

You mean you don't know????? Wow!

YES! The RBA is a PRIVATE CARTEL owned by some of the wealthiest families in Europe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXb-LrVkuwM

Watch all 22 parts of the documentary above and learn something. I'll repeat it here, the RBA is PRIVATELY OWNED and enslaves the people through interest created out of NOTHING!
 
Bullion Baron (not Hobo Jo?), enlighten me, please. The RBA is a private bank? I'll admit again, I'm no expert, so if I'm wrong I'll wear it happily. The RBA is a private enterprise? Please explain.

Belbo, Since you suggest others to submit essays and do there research to provide you answers or to prove you wrong, why don't you have an attempt at doing the research and prove me wrong.

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just trying to say I could possibly not explain the fraudulent reserve banking system which exists in just about every country on a forum post to you.
Trust me its worth doing the research it will open your eyes, and perhaps that conspiracy theory bug will bite you... You may not believe it but it will definitely make you think.. "but why"


I will start you off on a very basic video which is a lot shorter then the one mentioned above.
Easy watching video, humorous too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPWH5TlbloU

Cheers.
 
It's almost a yes/no answer, Bullion Whatever. What's so hard about offering a 3-sentence synthesis on RBA ownership, if you know about it so well?

I love it when people show me pictures. Hegel called it 'picture-thinking', the antithesis of critical thinking. It makes everything so easy!
 
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