Install of Aircons

[TAB_DR]

There is more to pricing a job then materials and labor.

You have to allow for all the extras with running a business and replacing items along the way,Insurance, licenses, paper work time, training, replacement of tools and cars, work phones, super, income protection, lost time by employees.

The reason why a lot of trades people struggle financially and business go bust is because these things aren't factored into the job.

Electricians and plumbers are licensed, we don't just get our trades after 4 years we have test and competencies to pass. By doing this work yourself its a danger to not just you.

Its the people who have to work after you that are in trouble. its not just joining wires or connecting pipes there is theory behind why you do it and how.

The bare minimum a sparky in Melbourne should be charging is 76ph

You need to make at least $1000 per day. After our work is done it doesn't stop there. We have paper work and quoting and getting materials which take hours and aren't done for free. we might only work 8 hours on the tools but there is another 5 hours after that that we cant charge for.

Dave

 

[Railglider]

Really?
tradesmen are in general skilled people but their work by nature is not brain surgery.

Oh here we go, another jack of all trades, master of none.
Let me just say this to you - My profession is Electrical Engineering, it's a 4 yr apprenticeship as the basis to a Trade certificate. This however is not enough to go out contracting and owning/operating my own business. I need to qualify with a Test run by the Tafe called the Capstone Test. If I pass this I then need to sit a Test run by the Trades recognition Board on the AS/NZ3000 Wiring rules. Only then if a get this far - I can then apply for a Contractors License, which will cost me $300.00 every 3 yrs. On top of this, the NSW State Government make all Electrical and building trades complete 100 hrs of post trade courses, just to make sure we all keep up to date. This is unpaid and courses are generally around the $50.00 - $100.00 mark each.
If the authority in charge of Licensing (Dept Fair-Trading) didn't think definate skills are required for such work, then there would most definately be more deaths from Electrocution than there currently is. It is seldom an Electrical worker dies from this, most Electrocutions are from would-be could-be DIYers.
My trade has changed so very much over the years - you would not believe how fast technology has grown in the electrical game. We don't just pull wires and make connections at each end any more. I deal with programming PLC's, installing smart home electrical systems (computerised) Data cable and Fibre Optics. These are now part of many Electricians jobs. It all comes with a price. You cannot always put a value on such things - as I could easily wire up a house for set cost, but I could also be making 4 or 5 times that making Fibre optic joins. So it really depends on the skill set as to what you get in the bang for your dollar. Brain surgery or multi skilled Electrical Engineering. It's both surgery to me, and if you had to learn what I've learnt over the years, you'd be saying the same thing.

 

[BV]

Let me just say this to you - My profession is Electrical Engineering, it's a 4 yr apprenticeship as the basis to a Trade certificate. .

My comment wasn't aimed at you.
There are reasons why your profession is regulated and the main ones are safety & job protection.

What are you talking about?
I have an Electrical/electronics engineering degree so what?
Does it give me the right to charge people $168/h?

 

[Railglider]

What are you talking about?
I have an Electrical/electronics engineering degree so what?
Does it give me the right to charge people $168/h?

Bill - obviously you did the right thing and told the plumber to move on.
That is indeed your right. (If he the plumber that is) is charging people that amount and honestly I do not think he would be making much in a week to be getting any form of good income. Most would tell him no way, and continue to get other quotes.
Is it right to charge that amount? This depends on several factors, if it's an urgent after hours call-out, or weekend work, or on a public holiday, then I'd say no - it's not unreasonable. There are no rules to this, so people need to be diligent. Seek other quotes.

Let me ask you this Bill, and this scenerio came from a plumber I was speaking with about three weeks ago. One late Saturday evening this particular plumber recieved a call from a client, who was in a mad panic over raw sewage coming up through the drains in his flooring in the bathroom, laundry and en-suite. After a good conversation with the client - it turns out the clients mate had installed a new septic tank pump for him. It was the wrong type of pump, and had blocked up and hence the system had backed up and overflowed. The plumber had said on the Telephone it would cost the client a $150.00 callout fee, plus labour at $180.00 / hour. The client agreed saying just stop this stuff coming into my home. The plumber had to remove all his clothing and get into the tank to remove the pump and fit a new correct type of pump to suit the application. There was no other way, as he could not get hold of anyone that late at night to come and pump out the septic.
At the end of all this, when the plumber asked to be paid, the client said would you mind sending me the invoice as I don't have the cash or cheque with me this late at night. The plumber had previously done work for this client in the past (several years ago) but never had a problem with him paying, so agreed to send the invoice at a later date.
He still hasn't been paid. Incidently it now going to small claims court.
If this was your home Bill - and you needed the services of a plumber in this situation, would you be happy to pay the rates quoted after saying just stop this s--- coming into my home?

This thread should have nothing to do with costs, if you don't like the quote given seek others. Just make sure the Tradesman is qualified and Licensed in his trade. If you have any doubts telephone the Dept of Fair trading quoting the License number of the tradesman. It is your right to do so.

Geoff.

 

[BV]

If this was your home Bill - and you needed the services of a plumber in this situation, would you be happy to pay the rates quoted after saying just stop this s--- coming into my home?.

Yes no problem.
I would have paid him on the spot as well.
I'm sure most people would have been happy to pay him a premium for the inconvenience and more so because of the type of work involved

 

[regrow]

Burty

$500ea for back to back installation & with power ready to go has heaps of profit and more so for more that 1 unit.

Don't get discouraged by some of the responses, some installers want to make $1000/day and some are happy with less.

Tell me about it, I mean there is bugger all cost in materials for the tradie, I am almost keen to do it myself with the help of a mate that has worked as a laborer helping install a/c for a long time....

Just stuffs me the price some ppl have the nerve to charge for a few hours work...

Stop complaining of how much you got quoted.

At the end of the day if you are not happy you can always get your mate around put on a carton and do it yourselves, or find someone who is willing to do it for a loss. Just then don't come back here asking for recommendations of a good Air Conditioning person who can come fix the #@*! up of the previous install.

A friend of mine who runs his own business for years is always getting people who come in for a quote and is a little more expensive than the other guy. Six months latter they come back to him asking him to come have a look as it is now not working. He has completely removed all the previous work and has replaced it costing the person a hell of a lot more than his original quote.

He gets so many of this he now just says NO as he takes on the liability of the original work if he touches it, and besides he has plenty of work for his business already.

Regrow

 

[units4me]

I saw a plumber (who had done the short course for AC installs) installing an AC split one day, he was cutting the copper pipes with a hacksaw. When I pulled him up on this, his reply was "don't worry, the vac pump will suck out the filings".

Now for those who know little about AC, metal filings in the piping will eventually destroy the AC, and void the warranty.

How many of these guys are out there?

Again, I say beware of cheapo installers.

 

[burty85]

Stop complaining of how much you got quoted.

At the end of the day if you are not happy you can always get your mate around put on a carton and do it yourselves, or find someone who is willing to do it for a loss. Just then don't come back here asking for recommendations of a good Air Conditioning person who can come fix the #@*! up of the previous install.

A friend of mine who runs his own business for years is always getting people who come in for a quote and is a little more expensive than the other guy. Six months latter they come back to him asking him to come have a look as it is now not working. He has completely removed all the previous work and has replaced it costing the person a hell of a lot more than his original quote.

He gets so many of this he now just says NO as he takes on the liability of the original work if he touches it, and besides he has plenty of work for his business already.

Regrow

I will be getting more quotes on the install, still I cant see why they can be charging between $160-200 an hour for there work, yes there is some behind the scenes costs, plus a lot of the tradies also like to work for cashies, which most of the time come in at the same price anyways

Note: I am not a fan of cashies either...

 

[BV]

I will be getting more quotes on the install, still I cant see why they can be charging between $160-200 an hour for their work

The ones I've used come in pairs so it will be $150 for the boss and $10 for his apprentice

 

[burty85]

The ones I've used come in pairs so it will be $150 for the boss and $10 for his apprentice

Haha not bad hey, I be in the wrong business...

 

[regrow]

I saw a plumber (who had done the short course for AC installs) installing an AC split one day, he was cutting the copper pipes with a hacksaw. When I pulled him up on this, his reply was "don't worry, the vac pump will suck out the filings".

Now for those who know little about AC, metal filings in the piping will eventually destroy the AC, and void the warranty.

How many of these guys are out there?

Again, I say beware of cheapo installers.

Exactly the worst thing they ever did was let these backyard cowboys do a short course to fit A/C's. They spend $2 on a hacksaw rather than the expensive tube cutters. This is the main reason I no longer work in the trade as they have brought down the cost to do the job to a point where you cannot compete and it has also become the norm for the person wants the job done at a low price. Thankfully I've heard they have canned the course. (Hopefully this is the case)

I will be getting more quotes on the install, still I cant see why they can be charging between $160-200 an hour for there work, yes there is some behind the scenes costs, plus a lot of the tradies also like to work for cashies, which most of the time come in at the same price anyways

Note: I am not a fan of cashies either...

I think you have been thinking that every person who turns up is getting $160-200 p/hr. More than likely they are getting paid much less $35-40 p/hr the rest is used by the boss to pay for all materials, rego, fuel, car maintenance, super, electricity, phones, uniforms, tools, but hey I'm sure you think that after all this he is still making a huge profit.. Oh and the sparkie is working for free too

Also BV you say you have an Electrical/electronics engineering degree. I have a lot of tickets for courses I have done but unless you use them they are a waste of time and effort. (I'm lucky enough for my employer to pay me for my time and cover the cost of the course as well) On completing your degree I'm sure you would not work for $35 p/hr if you had spent 4 years completing the degree. Or maybe you would...

Regards

Regrow

 

[meconium]

You need to make at least $1000 per day.

Most doctors (I refer to GPs rather than specialists) earn less, and their jobs involve a lot more responsibility in that peoples lives are in their hands. And they don't do "cashies" either! If people like you charge "at least $1000 a day", maybe it's time we started importing more skilled immigrants.

The guy who came to my place to install the aircon took barely two hours and charged an usurious $500 cash for the job. He arrived in a flash car and had a bad attitude - refusing to clean up afterwards or to do any work that he considered menial.

 

[AlmostBob]

Really?
tradesmen are in general skilled people but their work by nature is not brain surgery.

which is why surgeons, call in the trades.
Skill is worth paying for
my plumber is going to charge me something for the two hours work two blokes did in my basement
now i have a manifold setup individual shutoffs, straight runs of color coded pipe no pressure loss, and no risk of failure for 20 years
instead of a spiderweb of pipes, with copper, gal iron, brass intermingled all kinds of galvanic corrosion happening, 20+ repair couplings added in by unskilled repairers,
happy to pay it, not happy as such, but its less than the emergency call would be in a couple of months

I would prefer the surgeon did the surgery, but I'd rather keep my plumber and sparky onside than the doc

The guy who came to my place to install the aircon took barely two hours and charged an usurious $500 cash for the job. He arrived in a flash car and had a bad attitude - refusing to clean up afterwards or to do any work that he considered menial.

he obviously needs his $$ to pay the car loan

 

[RickF]

In my experience you get what you pay for but it is your responsibility to do due diligence. I recently had 3 units installed in a 2bdr townhouse in Alice Springs.
Got 3 quotes and the range in price was about $700 but the units were different brands.
Ended up choosing the brand that had the better warranty and reputation (a good mate is a plumber and gave me his opinion from what he has seen). As far as which company installing it, well I have had a good relationship with the property manager for over 6 years now so I got them to get the quotes in the knowledge that if problems arise due to the quality of the work it would reflect badly on them. They are already aware of this and the tenant is happy with the new units.
In regional towns there is a tendency to think that you are getting conspired against. One thing I do know from living in A/Springs for ten years is that dodgy operators end up with a reputation that spreads through the town like wildfire. The trick is to have a good property manager if you no longer live where your IP is located. Also don't be afraid to visit and arrange to inspect your property.

 

[csc2]

find a decent apprentice who can do the instillation job properly...theres plenty around who do foreigners on a weekend...get a tradesman to finish it off and connect the power (one hours cost)...works for me....

 

[BV]

On completing your degree I'm sure you would not work for $35 p/hr if you had spent 4 years completing the degree

As a consultant you wouldn't but as a graduate working for an employer you would

 

[regrow]

The guy who came to my place to install the aircon took barely two hours and charged an usurious $500 cash for the job. He arrived in a flash car and had a bad attitude - refusing to clean up afterwards or to do any work that he considered menial.

How may guys did he have or was he alone?

Tradesman who do not clean up after themselves are doing themselves out of a good reputation. Although you stated in the above, maybe he is one of these backyard cowboys with a weeks training because I myself can do without running around like a headless chicken a back to back in about 4 1/2 hrs, this also includes vac pumping the unit for an hr, and cleaning up. But does not include the electrical. I wire in a plug so as I can commission the unit and let the client organise their own sparkie to wire it up.

If the installer supplied the unit then the rubbish should be taken by the guy installing it, but generally if the client supplies the unit then it is their rubbish and I leave it to them to discard. Although I do ask if they would like me to take it away and they usually say they will get rid of it anyways.

As a consultant you wouldn't but as a graduate working for an employer you would

Exactly!
A consultant in the A/C Trade to me is the guy who owns the business and is responsible for all the behind the scenes costs as I'm sure you can understand. Not all guys showing up are the boss.

Regards

Regrow

 

[meconium]

How may guys did he have or was he alone?

He manifested all by his lonesome, earning more than most GPs or hospital based doctors I know earn in two hours. And when I checked, yes he WAS licenced.

Oh it was a cash job - I did shop around and it was the best deal in town.

 

[TAB_DR]

Do you think when someone makes 1000 a day they take that much home?

You have overheads to pay. Factories, running of cars, employees etc etc.

who pays for the super, long service leave, sick days, lost time for travel, quoting jobs, paper work. All this stuff is counted in the hourly rate.

I went to my gp the other pay and was charged 60 for 10 min. do i look at it like he is making 360 an hour or 2880 for an 8 hour shift. no i don't.

The same applies for trades.

People like me do charge that much because we do things by the books, don't take short cuts and do the job right the first time.

Dave

 

[units4me]

It is surprising that so many have a problem with a skilled tradesman earning a decent living, for providing an essential service, yet will happily pay through the nose outrageous fees for buyers advocates, mortgage brokers, "educational" seminars, financial planners etc.