I agree....no, no...I disagree... No, I agree. Hell, I dont know anymore. hahaha
Cheers
Mick
IP in Hoppers Crossing/Werribee (VIC)
- Thread starter mysterious_guy
- Start date
I agree....no, no...I disagree... No, I agree. Hell, I dont know anymore. hahaha
Cheers
Mick
Or....it could be code for NFI....
Forumite....very interesting.....stats......it certainly should allay the fears of people of low socio-economic backgrounds are concentrated in Werribee?Hoppers Crossing this is the hard evidence.
On a more subjective evidence....this is the trend i foresaw:
1. The Wyndham areas is attracting a lot of people who are professionals but cannot afford a house in areas like Williamstown, Footscray, etc. They like the affordable homes and the great amenities in the area.
2. The rough element is slowly moving out as rents start moving up and young families move in.
3. The introduction of a new rail line will make Werribee an even larger commercial centre and will further support the Transit cities programme which Werribee is one.
4. Larger shopping centres are being put in....this does not happen unless the area has a minimum level of disposable income.
5. Though large tracts of land has been identified for release, in the current market decent blocks are pre-sold. Why....because no bank will lend without almost 80% pre-sales...this has driven the pricing of land in the area from about 90K 3 years ago to 140K today.
6. A lot of light industry organisations are basing their operations in the region.
For any more information on the region read the Rydher report and the current API where a spread on Werribee/Hoppers Crossing was done.
These are the KEY factors why prices go up. There is less upside in already built up areas unless you can add value. Even then....the holding costs are high. I am not saying that areas like Toorak, Armadale, Hawthorn are bad buys...just that I cannot build a large portfolio quickly like i have over the last 3-4 years on just these properties due to the large negative cash flow committments.
Forumite....very interesting.....stats......it certainly should allay the fears of people of low socio-economic backgrounds are concentrated in Werribee?Hoppers Crossing this is the hard evidence.
On a more subjective evidence....this is the trend i foresaw:
1. The Wyndham areas is attracting a lot of people who are professionals but cannot afford a house in areas like Williamstown, Footscray, etc. They like the affordable homes and the great amenities in the area.
2. The rough element is slowly moving out as rents start moving up and young families move in.
3. The introduction of a new rail line will make Werribee an even larger commercial centre and will further support the Transit cities programme which Werribee is one.
4. Larger shopping centres are being put in....this does not happen unless the area has a minimum level of disposable income.
5. Though large tracts of land has been identified for release, in the current market decent blocks are pre-sold. Why....because no bank will lend without almost 80% pre-sales...this has driven the pricing of land in the area from about 90K 3 years ago to 140K today.
6. A lot of light industry organisations are basing their operations in the region.
For any more information on the region read the Rydher report and the current API where a spread on Werribee/Hoppers Crossing was done.
These are the KEY factors why prices go up. There is less upside in already built up areas unless you can add value. Even then....the holding costs are high. I am not saying that areas like Toorak, Armadale, Hawthorn are bad buys...just that I cannot build a large portfolio quickly like i have over the last 3-4 years on just these properties due to the large negative cash flow committments.
I agree....no, no...I disagree... No, I agree. Hell, I dont know anymore. hahaha
Cheers
Mick
Google Maps has a utility that estimates the driving time between 2 places.
The driving time from Hoppers Crossing is 28 min, not much longer compared to 23 min for Preston, despite the distance (27.7 km) almost tripling that for Preston (10.3 km) from the City.
What about using train? Using the metlink website:
It takes minimum 32 min by train from Hoppers Crossing to Flinders St, which is quite good compared to 22 min from Preston to Flinders St.
When considering travelling time to the City, one should not only rely on the shortest straight line between 2 addresses. I know for instance my colleague staying in St Kilda takes much longer time to reach our workplace at Parkville, compared to me staying at Altona. This is due to the long travelling time on tram.
In terms of travelling time to the City, I think Hoppers Crossing is as good as say Preston, an inner north suburb.
The driving time from Hoppers Crossing is 28 min, not much longer compared to 23 min for Preston, despite the distance (27.7 km) almost tripling that for Preston (10.3 km) from the City.
What about using train? Using the metlink website:
It takes minimum 32 min by train from Hoppers Crossing to Flinders St, which is quite good compared to 22 min from Preston to Flinders St.
When considering travelling time to the City, one should not only rely on the shortest straight line between 2 addresses. I know for instance my colleague staying in St Kilda takes much longer time to reach our workplace at Parkville, compared to me staying at Altona. This is due to the long travelling time on tram.
In terms of travelling time to the City, I think Hoppers Crossing is as good as say Preston, an inner north suburb.
The arguments run both ways. Inner city supply is tight and demand is high. Having lots of development space means there's plenty of supply that keeps a lid on prices.
In any case, people buy what they can afford. Some have more options in life. But trying to mislead/paint a negative picture about places that one can't afford as inferior investments reflects poorly on character and demonstrates how clouded judgment is, or rather, nfi.
Many people with options (myself included) consciously choose not to live in, for example, Werribee despite all the great promisings. But I can assure you that everyone who chooses to live Werribee does so because they don't have options to go anywhere else. That's Demographics 101 for you. And for as long as people only "choose" (if such a word can even be used since there was no choice in the first place) to live in a place because they can't afford anywhere else, that place is still not attracting the right demographics.
It's not very constructive listening to your own inner voice when you had no choice in the first place. Ask the people with choices and see where they've gone perhaps?
In any case, people buy what they can afford. Some have more options in life. But trying to mislead/paint a negative picture about places that one can't afford as inferior investments reflects poorly on character and demonstrates how clouded judgment is, or rather, nfi.
Many people with options (myself included) consciously choose not to live in, for example, Werribee despite all the great promisings. But I can assure you that everyone who chooses to live Werribee does so because they don't have options to go anywhere else. That's Demographics 101 for you. And for as long as people only "choose" (if such a word can even be used since there was no choice in the first place) to live in a place because they can't afford anywhere else, that place is still not attracting the right demographics.
It's not very constructive listening to your own inner voice when you had no choice in the first place. Ask the people with choices and see where they've gone perhaps?
Deltaberry,
Lets change the direction slightly shall we??......can you elaborate what you have bought and talk in specifics about what you have done in the inner city market.
Given this is a property forum....out fellow SSers including myself would be interested in the details.
This takes all the BS out of the equation and let the hard facts speak for themselves.
Are you up the challenge??
Lets change the direction slightly shall we??......can you elaborate what you have bought and talk in specifics about what you have done in the inner city market.
Given this is a property forum....out fellow SSers including myself would be interested in the details.
This takes all the BS out of the equation and let the hard facts speak for themselves.
Are you up the challenge??
Where are your evidences?
I disagree for two reasons:
1. Any argument asserting that 'everyone ..... ' will almost certainly be wrong.
All I need to do is find one person in the area who is there by their own choice and your point would be disproved.
2. House prices
Let's accept your statement that everyone who chooses to live in Werribee is there because they have no choice and test it against market reality, ie what uncoerced buyers are willing to pay.
If this was the case, every single house in Werribee would be cheaper than every single house in any other Melbourne suburb. Nothing would cost no more than $200k as that's about the floor price of cheap houses in Melbourne/Geelong.
A look at the real estate listings reveals this is not the case.
You will find $300-400k houses sold in Werribee. Something big near the river might set you back $600k. $300 - 600k could buy something in the majority of Melbourne suburbs, and indeed the city's median falls in that range. The existence of houses fetching those prices indicate that at least some with a choice are picking Werribee (or any other 'less desirable' suburb with diverse housing stock for which similar comments would apply).
forumite: you request for evidence will likely go unheeded because 'the more sweeping the statement the less the evidence'. In contrast if Deltaberry had said 'some.....' then his/her claims would have been much less easy to dismiss.
And you meaning YOU, not mummy and daddy...
Precisely, he can choose not to answer as he cannot substantiate his statements.
Forumite,
That is such a ridiculous question that borders on rhetoric. Even Sash and Mick would not entertain such a question, because it is plain obvious.
The evidence my friend is in the price and this is directly correlated to desirability of suburbs.
Mate, still can't believe you asked such a question. Sigh
Ia it so ridiculous to ask a person to back up his sweeping statements with hard facts?
You know a person's credibility from what he said.
Spiderman,
I am sure many people on SS would admire your longevity in this forum, especially Sash who seems to infer that property investment experience and wisdom is directly related to the no. of posts one makes.
However, there are quite a few fundamental flaws in your arguments, perhaps as a result of your haste to defend this 'golden' suburb of Hoppers/Werribee.
1. In most cases, you can never totally prove or disapprove absolutism. The phenomenon you described as 'whenever you say everyone' is almost certainly wrong is false because this is the classic example of psychoanalysis by popular thought. In other words, people in certain situations say/do the things they do because it is what the majority of people want (i.e. politicians say/do things because they believe it is by popular opinion and it will win them office. Are you 100% sure K Rudd wholeheartedly cares about the environment at the expense of the economy? Spare a thought that perhaps he is saying/doing the things he says/does because that is popular opinion. In relation to this, you will stumble upon people who would say 'oh, Werribee is the best' etc...etc... but in reality, they would prefer to live in Toorak, which is Deltaberry's point of choice (beggers can't be choosers). Hence, given this, they say they want to live in Werribee because the popular opinion is to be satisfied with what you have in life (and if Werribee is all you can afford, then be happy about it - there will be more people that will accept this belief than the alternative). I am sure if people who live in Werribee now go out and scream 'Werribee is a sh*thole, I want to live in Toorak' then they will probably get bashed *obvious sarcasm, but I hope you get the point I am trying to make.
2. Your argument about 'what uncoerced buyers are willing to pay' is also flawed. You are not comparing apples with apples (which I will highlight why) and this is in direct relation to my so called 'Deehwa's optimal proximity analysis'.
Sure, you will find $600K big houses in Werribee near the river but assuming for argument's sake, the exact same house, on the exact same land size and orientation, facing water in an alternative suburb, say Williamstown, I guarantee, would fetch way way in excess of $600K. This Spiderman, is what the term choice is. In fact, your argument is damningly flawed from the onset because I could say a 100 ha land in Werribee could cost $100mil but I can assure you if a 100 ha land closer in, say Altona, would cost way more than this. Hence, your comparison and argument unfortunately is totally invalid and nullified in reliability.
People who choose to live in Werribee do so because for the same price, they don't want to live in a shoebox, but instead in Werribee, as you identified for $600K, they can buy big house on big land near the river. Heck, with $600K, you could probably just afford to buy a 2 bedroom flat in an average location in South Yarra, with very little change. Thus, how is Deltaberry's choice argument false? I am absolutely sure that if person X wanted a 600sqm land+house near the river, Werribee would be one of the last suburbs on their mind (assuming they had choice). Now don't go bs~ing me that they rather live in Werribee and not Williamstown, Brighton, Elwood, Middle Park, Albert Park, Port Melbourne, St Kilda, Beaumaris, Black Rock, Hampton, Sandringham etc...
I am telling you mate, for $1mil, even I would buy Werribee if I can buy half the suburb!
Oh my goodness...you still don't get it?
Popular choice/desirability of suburb = price of suburb fetched.
Toorak is desirable, hence expensive.
Werribee is not desirable, hence cheap.
What more evidence/substantiation do you want?
Do you actually want me to prove that Toorak is more expensive than Werribee? Geez...sounds extremely tough! haha
Sorry, I couldn't understand any of the above. Did anyone else have better luck?
You make some good points.
I agree, Toorak is more popular for the rich folk etc.
Im wondering, what made Toorak into the town it is today? Why is it so desirable? Im keen to learn how it become so exclusive and expensive.
Any ideas? Has Toorak always been the "Rich" spot to live etc?
Cheers
Mick
Sorry, I couldn't understand any of the above. Did anyone else have better luck?
I think only DeeHwa believes it, but I don't think he understands it.
lmfao what an entertaining thread!!
good fun
good fun
I think it comes down to the fact that successful people like to live/buy near other successful people. Ego-seeking, image and greed is human nature, whether we accept it or not. In fact, the accumulation of IP's, wealth generation and trying to beat the living daylights out of each other on SS is all a part of it.
Places like Toorak, Brighton, Canterbury, Hawthorn, Kew etc...are not just a house or home to these guys. They are much more, i.e. a symbol of wealth, a display to families and friends of success and prosperity, a supreme lifestyle and when valuing property, it is often the intangibles and scarcity premium which supports the exorbitant prices fetched. It is a fact that the harder it is to value (high intangible factor like Toorak houses where it is difficult to value prestige) the greater propensity there is to fetch an extraordinary price. Check out Avon Court, Hawthorn, 13 Albany Road, Miegunyah in Toorak, Bellevue Hill in Sydney, properties in Peppermint Grove in Perth and you will know what I am talking about.
Anyways, I appreciate Mick that you at least show open-mindedness here, unlike many other people who rely on denigration rather than logical arguments, anecdotes or solid facts to prove their point.
lmfao what an entertaining thread!!
good fun
I agree, definitely entertaining and funny considering some people are either too thick or refuse to acknowledge the simplicity and validity of my arguments.
Saying that people are willing to pay $600K for a house in Werribee is choice? hahahaha...that is because Werribee offers you the most for $600K. I'd like to see Spiderman buy a big house for $600K near water on big land closer to the city. Sigh...
