Is Dr Haneef Tampa Mk II?

[buzzlightyear]

but the justice system moved to protect him by releasing him so where is the injustice? The fact that he is not an Australian and we reserve the right to boot him out is very convenient. If he was a home grown terrorist such as hicks then we would be stuck with him.

And he has the pleasure of now being housed at Villawood Immigration Detention Centre until his trial!

Of course it is difficult to make assessements of the case when you are not present and being drip fed information by the media, but it seems an over-reaction here.

 

[willair]

Start planning for a Labor government. LOL

Not me,even with all the crap in the papers, and if they do win power at
the next Election ,i don,t see any problems as long as you are cashed up
like last time,my only question is who in Rudds Ship of Fools will or can
control the unions..willair..

 

[urban cowboy]

the sim card and a couple of minor details is all that was released to the public...from a former life in policing i can tell you there is so much more to this story that the public doesn't know about - it will come out in the fullness of time, but whilst its under investigation - the important evidentiary details will remain with those who need to know only.

as for ho it will affect the government - i have no idea - but when this is all over with there will be some big opportunities for political points scoring on both sides.

have a great day!!
UC

 

[TheCamel]

G'day Mark,

Yep, it's a "coined phrase" for sure. But where would this load of tourists have landed? In Sydney, to be processed as a legal immigrant? I don't think so. They would have landed at some out-of-the-way place in the North and have endeavoured to make their way into Australia by stealth.


No, Mark - I haven't. Have you?


I'm sure there are many "chills down the spine" stories out there. And, I guess, I wouldn't blame them for trying to escape a problem.


Hmm. Nothing like sarcasm to bring a point undone. There are legal ways that they can enter Australia. Why do they not try those first? And, it might mean putting themselves in a "detention camp" for a period. Along with many others. But their actions put themselves out of this "queue" - why is that Mark? Why don't they go the LEGAL way?

But, if they are just so FRANTIC that they will try ANY way - well then, is this Australia's fault? And should we be "the bunny" and just accept them?

Tell me more, Mark. I'm not convinced yet,

Regards,

I may be wrong on this.. but I think it's Germany who have a "first haven" policy WRT 'illegals'

Basically, if, in the process of making your trip to Germany, you pass through another country that is equally able to protect or provide your democratic right to freedom and safety, they will not accept you..... I don't find this to be TOO bad an idea.

If you desperately want to escape a regime, or civil war, or whatever, surely, you just want to be somewhere, anywhere, safe....

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Hmm. Nothing like sarcasm to bring a point undone. There are legal ways that they can enter Australia. Why do they not try those first? And, it might mean putting themselves in a "detention camp" for a period. Along with many others. But their actions put themselves out of this "queue" - why is that Mark? Why don't they go the LEGAL way?

But, if they are just so FRANTIC that they will try ANY way - well then, is this Australia's fault? And should we be "the bunny" and just accept them?

Tell me more, Mark. I'm not convinced yet,

Hi Les,

I didn't mean to come across as sarcastic. Other people I've spoken to have said the same thing - why don't they use legal channels? Well, if those channels were open to them, I'm sure they would. Not every country is like ours where we have the freedom to come and go as we please. The reality for many of these people is that they are trying to escape vicious regimes and feel they have no other options. I'm sure you've seen the footage of the boats on the news - would you risk yourself and your family like that if you had other options?

Should we automatically accept them? No, I don't think so, I believe that every case needs to be judged on it's merits. I also believe that locking people up in prisons for years is awful and totally unjustifiable.

Mark

 

[Sunfish]

...from a former life in policing i can tell you there is so much more to this story that the public doesn't know about -

So, do YOU know any more than we do, or are you making an assumption of guilt? If there was more evidence it should have been outlined to the magistrate who was granting the extensions to his detention.

But I didn't start this thread to protest Haneef's innocence. I have no idea about that. I am protesting Howard's playing the "patriot" card yet again and suggesting the electorate won't be as eager to embrace it as they were in the past.

 

[BoatBoy]

Hi Les,

I didn't mean to come across as sarcastic. Other people I've spoken to have said the same thing - why don't they use legal channels? Well, if those channels were open to them, I'm sure they would. Not every country is like ours where we have the freedom to come and go as we please. The reality for many of these people is that they are trying to escape vicious regimes and feel they have no other options. I'm sure you've seen the footage of the boats on the news - would you risk yourself and your family like that if you had other options?

Should we automatically accept them? No, I don't think so, I believe that every case needs to be judged on it's merits. I also believe that locking people up in prisons for years is awful and totally unjustifiable.

Mark

Here's one of those nice images you mention.

That ain't no pleasure cruise.

Dave

 

[Rixter]

If he was a home grown terrorist such as hicks then we would be stuck with him.

You can't help bad luck! In this case its worked out in Australia's favour.

 

[urban cowboy]

So, do YOU know any more than we do...If there was more evidence it should have been outlined to the magistrate who was granting the extensions to his detention.

I have heard some things from (to quote Garth Brooks) "friends in low places" who are still in the job...but they will remain undisclosed in a public forum.

My point was more along the lines that, from my experience, when there is something like this going on...the public only gets told a small portion of it. Whether or not you agree with it, it is considered a matter of national security and the evidence against old mate will only be known by those who need to know...and that includes the magistracy - they will only be given enough info to be aware that there is further investigation needed and he should remain in custody for x period of time. the investigation is obviously still ongoing and i submit will do for some time...

But I didn't start this thread to protest Haneef's innocence. I have no idea about that. I am protesting Howard's playing the "patriot" card yet again and suggesting the electorate won't be as eager to embrace it as they were in the past.

I wholeheartedly agree with you here...as much as i fear a labor govt is soon to be upon us, the way this is being played out is not in my opinion politically the smartest move...what is a better way?? stuffed if i know, but given the election is only a couple of months away and this will be ongoing for a lot longer than that, i reckon the govt need to smarten up their approach a bit if they are going to do any good out of it.

cheers
UC

 

[tubs]

1. The ALP has supported the detention. Why? Good question. Either they have been made aware of the intelligence uncovered by the police, or they dont want to look stupid by campaigning for the release of a man who later turns out to be a terrorist planning an attack.

2. Its likely there is more to this character than we're aware of. A LOT of information was looked at and investigated, and they tool 12 days to do it, so its likely there is more than we're aware of.

3. They dont need to reveal any further information to the magistrate (if there is any) because its not relevant to the case he was dealing with, and they would have him in detention anyway if he was bailed (which he was).

4. On another point, it does take too long to assess refugee claims, but in their defence, its really difficult work. People can claim to be whoever/whatever they want, even assuming the identity of other people, in order to claim refugee status. The case of Ali Baktiari is one I remember, in which this person claimed to be from Afghanistan, before finally admitting to be from Pakistan. Investigating these cases would be terribly difficult and time consuming, particularly since you're dealing with a part of the world where communication is difficult, and where you're working on behalf of people who have fled that country and the officials there would be unlikely to respond very positively. I can't imagine it being much fun doing it, so the department is probably stretched for resources, and finds it hard to find enough people willing to work for them. And all this will lead to lengthy delays.

For more info on the Baktiari case: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=1720
Also mentions that approx 700 of the 4000 Afghani refugees granted protection visas are under investigation by the govt for being Pakistani.

 

[Ricardo29]

i reckon its about as important an election issue as what i have for dinner tonight.
im still happy to take anyone's money who thinks labor will win.....or who thinks non-issues like climate change, foreign people and terrorism, drought or save the planet campaigns actually have an effect on elections.
money rules the world.
people in general have had it good under libs, labor have ballsed up in the past, loans are cheap, things are booming, unemployment low, inflation low....all monetary factors......and why change. very simple stuff

 

[Sunfish]

Ricardo, you have described the last election perfectly. The new "working class" capitalists did, indeed, vote in Howard.

I wonder if it will work twice. Those who felt rich a few years ago with the great housing boom will, if they live in Sydney, be asking where the boom has gone. (Loyalty is short lived) Why is it my kids can't afford a house? Why is it that when I sell my 3br br vr nowhere house it costs me as much to buy somewhere else?

There never was a free lunch and suburbia, at least in the little bit I see, is wiseing up.

So my two slabs of XXXX to one of yours (even VB if you insist) says Labor. But geezzz, Rudd makes me quite nostalgic for Hawkie, or even Keating.

 

[chrispy]

I was very surprised in the UK by the number of British people who said they wanted John Howard as Prime Minister!!! He is seen as being very strong and having stopped illegal immigration which has been rife in the UK. I was even surprised they knew who he was!

I heard on the ABC this morning that the UK are expected to apply for the extradition of Haneef to face charges in the UK. I feel this extradition will contain the hidden information we are currently unaware of.

As usual we are only getting part of the story.

Chris

 

[MichaelW]

So my two slabs of XXXX to one of yours (even VB if you insist) says Labor. But geezzz, Rudd makes me quite nostalgic for Hawkie, or even Keating.

I'll match that bet!

I couldn't believe it last election when the "upwardly aspirants" in the likes of Penrith voted Howard in, but there you go, they did. But now they're suffering under higher interest rates and mortgage squeeze. The most afflicted mortgage belt is right down the middle of all those marginal seats that used to be labour strongholds.

So, my money says Johnny's had his run. It will be a labour government come the next election unless Rudd does something really really stupid like go to Tasmania and say we're going to stop logging. He's playing the right amount of anti-unionism so far so that he can avoid getting tagged as a unionist. Johnny will try that old chestnut for sure: "If you vote labour then its a return to the bad old union days", but Rudd has positioned himself well to survive it now. He's also showing just enough knowledge around the economy to lock horns on that traditional liberal stronghold too, but he won't win that one but he'll win on other fronts. I think the environment is more front-of-mind than some give it credit and Labour has stolen the front-runner position on that one.

Yep, my 2 cases against your 1 Ricardo says Rudd will get the numbers and with a comfortable majority too. Johnny is running out of tricks and this latest attempt at flag-waving nationalism around security just doesn't cut the mustard. It would take a terrorist attack on downtown Sydney to sway the debate sufficiently back to security and in the Lib's favour.

Cheers,
Michael.

PS I didn't mention my political alegiances. Just spelt out my take on the current political stouch and where the parties sit.

 

[Ricardo29]

il take that bet...but dont send me XXXX please. anything but XXXX

good economy v bad economy...hmmmm
100yr veterans with solid foundation/history v 5minute dweeb who has done nothing....hmmm

in fact, raise it...2 slabs please!

 

[MichaelW]

I wonder if this is an East Coast vs West Coast divide on the state of the economy... Maybe its just Sydney that is suffering at the moment and ready for a change of government...

Bet raised!

Cheers,
Michael.

 

[Sunfish]

I was very surprised in the UK by the number of British people who said they wanted John Howard as Prime Minister!!! He is seen as being very strong and having stopped illegal immigration which has been rife in the UK.

I've been talking to a recently arrived Pom down at the local and it is clear that immigration is an enormous problem (I've always been aware of that though) and could understand that they would embrace anyone they saw as strong on that issue. They would embrace Enoch Powell now.

 

[topcropper]

Oh dear.

Now it appears that the good doctor may be linked to al-quada after all. And we let him go?

All the 'do gooders' and 'wowsers' and civil libertairians who were so behind letting him go will be to blame if this bloke is guilty. The pressure on the police and government was huge. I just wish people would shut the hell up, and let authorities do their job. We are a nation of whingers.

This is terrorism. We have to put 21 million people ahead of the civil rights of one. Mistakes will be made, but we have to be carefull.

See ya's.

 

[sue78]

the sim card and a couple of minor details is all that was released to the public...from a former life in policing i can tell you there is so much more to this story that the public doesn't know about - it will come out in the fullness of time, but whilst its under investigation - the important evidentiary details will remain with those who need to know only.

as for ho it will affect the government - i have no idea - but when this is all over with there will be some big opportunities for political points scoring on both sides.

have a great day!!
UC

But surely if there was a lot more then they would be negligent in letting him go? having the afp, government, andrews, all pointing fingers at each other in the media is such a disgrace....it just smells fishy to me. But does anyone really trust the government? I think all governments are corrupted.

 

[urban cowboy]

not necessarily...i see your point but sometimes during the course of investigations you have to roll with the punches a bit...you might have a lot of evidence, but it may not be enough to secure a conviction...and seeing you can only hold without charge for so long, one tactic sometimes used is to charge with something small whilst still investigating the bigger charges...ties them up with courts etc for a while looking at them further.


in this case it looks like they stuffed up on the small charge which is making life difficult. heads will probably roll somewhere because of it all - bring on another royal commission!! hehehehe

be interesting to see all the info when it finally comes out.