know it all,show off, tall poppy syndrome

[pooomba]

I didn't notice it much on my visits to OZ but TPS is certainly alive and well in New Zealand. Over here you don't get a chance to become a show off. Virtually any success will get plenty of fingers pointed in your direction. So totally unlike America where they actually celebrate success.
We're a sad lot in this regard in NZ

 

[Sultan of Swing]

I didn't notice it much on my visits to OZ but TPS is certainly alive and well in New Zealand. Over here you don't get a chance to become a show off. Virtually any success will get plenty of fingers pointed in your direction. So totally unlike America where they actually celebrate success.
We're a sad lot in this regard in NZ

Sounds a lot like here in Tassie.

I think a lot of it is pure and simple jealously.

 

[lizzie]

i agree that it is worse in nz than oz - impossible as it sounds. that means that in the end the majority just don't bother.

i do know on a farmstay trip to new caledonia that anyone that got off their backsides and worked was actually blackbanned because it would set a precedence for everyone else have to work. unreal. couldn't live there!

 

[MarkB]

For instance - Tennis Players - take Pat Cash, Lleyton Hewitt, Philippousis and Pat Rafter. For a variety of reasons, the first three, whilst very successful (well, maybe not the Scud!), are generally not highly regarded and will invoke the ire of the general community. Some would say this is tall poppy syndrome. Pat Rafter, arguably more successful, but presents as a wonderful guy and have never heard a bad thing about him. Cant argue tall poppy syndrome here!

Imho Rafter escapes TPS because of the money he has donated to charity.

Mind you - it needs to be noted that for years he was a resident of Bermuda and paid very little tax.

The others (certainly Scud and Hewitt) have been residents in Australia and made their donations via the taxman (which isn't as well regarded).

Greg Norman is a funny example of how we judge people - the guy loses a few playoffs in major tournaments and is therefore seen as a loser by some people.

Norman is the only golfer to lose all 4 majors in a playoff.

In 1986 he led all 4 majors into the final round (and won 1, The Open).

But he isn't the biggest 2nd place-getter in world golf.

That distinction belongs to Jack Nicklaus - 18 times runner-up in major tournaments.

Yet no-one ever calls him a loser (yes I realise he also won 18 majors + the US Amatuer twice).

i agree that it [TPS] is worse in nz than oz - impossible as it sounds. that means that in the end the majority just don't bother.

Yep, and until NZ addresses that (and gets over it's unhealty fixation on Australia) it will always be less than it can be and in Australia's shadow.

M

 

[sailor]

Tall poppies generally get to be tall, because they work hard!

 

[_K_O_]

I find that the tall poppy syndrome is more deeply rooted in the Australian culture than a lot of people think. I've lived in a few parts of the world, & it's very evident to me here. Tall poppies grow not because they're full of s#&%, but because they take what food (opportunities) they can & reach for the sun.

Even in listing my future dreams on another (non-property related) forum, of owning property/properties, then also owning land to breed horses on, & then eventually starting a centre of (equine) learning for all equestrian disciplines & vet/therapies.. I was mocked for even thinking or dreaming of doing this! (& this is in a thread titled something along the lines of "what are your dreams?")

People aren't even allowed to take pride in their sporting successes, no matter what level they're at.. & these are the people that Australians most often idolise. That being so, they always have to be at the absolute base of humility.. There's a difference between 'lording it' over others, & showing pride & happiness in your successes.

I'm actually of Scandinavian background.. & while this concept of Jante law might exist, they also don't have to worry about having financial worries should anything untoward happen to them (ie. in the event of severe illness), or worry about their retirement.. Education -> free, medical -> free, compensation/ support -> Gov't provided... They don't need to be personally & individually 'rich' to live a really good life. Also, if people succeed in Denmark, they're congratulated on their efforts, cheered on for their successes. People are proud of their nation, their heritage & their family, friends & aquaintances. It's a fundamental difference in the root of the culture..

I love Australia. This is where I found my life. I've already started living my life differently, & am not falling into the 'tall poppy chopping' frame of mind again (both in myself & towards others). I think that people around me notice the difference. For the better.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[fish74]

Mmmm all very interesting. I thought the stuff Peter found was spot on. I admit to having a relative that I tall poppy chop in my mind. He is a very successful buisness man and I admire and respect his business sense and don't think I'm jealous of his wealth.

But since becoming successful he has become very arrogant and portrays a sense of being expert on everything (not just business related stuff, which he is expert on) including moral issues. He's not interested in hearing anyone elses point of view. It's sad really, because prior to his success and wealth he wasn't a bad bloke. Now that he's 'done it' he seems to have lost compassion and patience for other people too.

In comparison I have other older friends who are successful and wealthy and you wouldn't meet more compassionate, genuine people. They are respectful and kind to everyone. Gracious is the word that comes to mind when I think of them. They don't hide their success but anyone who'd chopped them down would feel a real heel.

In sum, the person is chopped down due their attitude rather than their success. Even so I personally avoid acting on any urge to chop the odd poppy.

Fish

 

[pooomba]

That is more about you not liking him now rather than tall poppy sundrome. TPS is the sure sign of a scarcity mentality running rampant. If we understand that there is plenty for everybody and we can all have some then we are able to celebrate others rather than tear down. Sadly both sides of teh ditch struggle with this. Too many of us actually enjoy seeing someone fall from grace. Just watch our news. We cover ten high profile divorces or financial misfortunes for every one genuine success story.

 

[lizzie]

or, as rk said on one of his tapes, it's easier to try and pull others back down to our level than rise up to meet theirs.

his example was going crabbing, where you can keep the crabs in a very shallow container and they will not escape because if one of them rises above the others to try and get out the top the other crabs will pull him back down.

i think that is what tps is about - easier to chop down than to exert yourself.

luckily we're all risers on this forum ...

 

[Patosan]

Every system has its advantages and disadvantages. I prefer the Australian way.

After being out of the country for some time and looking back with a broadened view I certainly prefer the Oz way, especially for bringing up children. TPS certainly has it's disadvantages for a community but firstly just how prevalent is it anyway ? Wouldn't attitudes towards success vary greatly between socio-economic groups ?

Every system has it's good and bad points, this thread started looking at the dark side but doesn't even TPS have positives ? Wouldn't it teach us the merits of being humble, pride without boasting. It could also prevent children being under pressure to always perform, or feeling a failure when not 1st.

What about our love of the great Aussie battler ... we will cheer them on when they win and support them when they don't. Perhaps there's a bit of TPS after the battler becomes truly successful, but by then they should be able to stand on their own and weather any such trouble. Not that they should have trouble if they act dignified anyway.

 

[our obsession]

Goodonya Paddy!

Australia truly is a great country, a beautiful, big, old, dry continent, even with it's tall poppies and warts and all...I felt the same way returning home...love it. We are unique.

 

[wish-ga]

he has an office full of pictures of business and political people in his office in china but in pitt street here in sydney his office the walls and side tables are bare except the financial papers

I think this is a cultural difference. And what is termed as tall poppy syndrome is sometimes an expression of the Australian culture to have humility. I do not believe as a society we dislike success but we sometimes disapprove of the way people express it. (Can you imagine an Aussie splashing his name across every project like the The Donald does in New York? mwahhahahah!)

We like understatement. "Yeah, business is pretty good".
Shades of "it's just a flesh wound".... meanwhile blood spurts outta the gashed limb.

I don't think as a nation we resent success but the media likes to make a mountain out of a molehill. Negativity is the way to do it. Sometimes people on the streets buy into it and it becomes a viscious (very!) cycle.

 

[GIDDO]

Yes Wish ga,

I really love the "Yeah business is pretty good" way of expressing one's position.

I just love it when a bloke says that to me. I know he is doing darned well, but is not about to skite about it.

I do not really identify with the successful man who plasters his name on everything, and is a media tart!

Does this mean I am a tall poppy chopper?

I do not think so at all.

I just love the Aussie Doer, who gets things done, but never boasts about it.

I know a lot of people who are millionaires. Many of them are Tradies or small businesspeople who never ever draw attention to them selves.

Many would never even admit that they have a couple of Million in equity.

Tell me, am I suffering from TPS??

 

[Celeste]

Hi all

TPS - hmm

I gather from this thread that if a well to do keeps it to him self he's OK. but if he tells you all about it (and maybe brags abit) he needs to chopped down.

I read an article once about councelling and the expert's comment was
" most councelling does not work because people are basically lazy and that people would rather leave things as they are than make the effort to change".
Lossing weight would be a good example.

So, my thoughts on TP - when people hear about someone elses success it actually makes most of them feel the following - envy/jealous (they want it), lazy (they should be doing something to), guilt (they are not doing anything) , cowardly (have had the guts to do it) and maybe a bit stupid (because they really do not know how)

So, therefore the need to chop them down - or is it more applying excuses (his family had money, he went to uni, he got lucky, he doesn't have children/wife, etc) as to why the TP is successful and they are not??

Celeste

 

[wish-ga]

H...and maybe brags abit...

thumbs up to celebrating a success ______________thumbs down to bragging

(IMHO only - no offence meant)

My upstairs neighbour from the 80's. Always said she "worked at the uni". Admin one may assume. No, she was a History Professor... I loved that she did not need to tell others.

It is not about hiding one's light under a bushell, after all false modesty is just as disingenuous as overblown bragging.

I examine what I feel I need someone to know about me. Why is it important for me to be perceived in a certain way? What does it say about how I feel about me? (It is hard work and not all that fun; as Celeste says not many want to face it head on)

 

[luce.rocks]

i think it's a bit sad that i sat down and came up with a 3 year plan to have 1 mil equity by 2010 and i have i have a sum total of 2 people that i can comfortably, or excitedly, share that plan with without being told i'm being unrealistic, or greedy, or something else negative. even less chance of sharing my dream of getting onto a BRW rich list

i'm not sure if it's tall poppy syndrome (cos i haven't achieved it yet, so i'm not tall enough to be cut down) or just different attitudes to work and money and how hard you should have to work to earn it. seems a lot of people see clever investing as an easy ride, and thus less deserving of respect? or that the quality of your spirit is directly related to stuggle, striving, blood sweat and tears, etc, etc. something like martyring yourself.

here's cheers to the people who take some time out to research their possibilities and choose the easiest path to their goals! and to the people who make crazy goals! good on ya for trying to do something out of the ordinary with your life!

 

[our obsession]

2010...A Very Good Year

Share that goal here Luce!

Great to have a goal and independence plan, you go for it and may you continue having lots of fun.

I'm quite partial to crazy goals a little myself.

 

[Peter 14.7]

i think it's a bit sad that i sat down and came up with a 3 year plan to have 1 mil equity by 2010 and i have i have a sum total of 2 people that i can comfortably, or excitedly, share that plan with without being told i'm being unrealistic, or greedy, or something else negative. even less chance of sharing my dream of getting onto a BRW rich list
QUOTE]

That what Somersoft is here for.

Fascinating is it not as if you said

I want $1M because my parents have no home and are aged and will need support

all would endorse you, but say

I want $1M because I want to secure my financial future

and let the howls begin.

I personally belive in today’s Australia the tall poppy syndrome is still strong because it makes those who feel they have failed in life, be it finance, relationship, family, etc..accountable to themselves.

They don’t like that mirror.

Hence it is easier to say "all rich are crooks, all academics are snobs, all sportsmen are yobs and all sportswomen are lesbian" or the best of all "the gov is to blame for(insert anything here)".

This last one is ironic as we the people, vote in the Government and the policies they present.

Regards, Peter 14.7