Loosing vs. Losing

[Olly]

Since when? I've always used them and teachers I know do too.
Drop the E add ING. etc.
My kids (class kids) know the difference between vowels and consonants before they go to Year 1.

Grammar IS in the primary school curriculum. It doesn't need to be reintroduced.

No offense intended so hope none was taken.

I can only go by my 6 & 10 year old grandsons that I tutor, plus some other primary kids I know from other schools whom I've asked questions of. (I have asked around to check what goes on in different schools). The 10 year old vaguely remembers a rhyme about nouns are the names of things and both grandkids sort of remember vowels and consonants being mentioned, but not reinforced. Answers from kids from other schools are similar.

I distinctly remember hearing a news item earlier this year about grammar being re-introduced. I remember talking to my sister about it (she's worked in schools for over 20 years but isn't a teacher), and she'd heard it too and wondered, like me, who would teach it. I also recently chatted with a reading recovery teacher about it and she said similar things to me and my sister. My own daughter (a high school English teacher) says she doesn't have to teach grammar, and has never been taught parts of speech e.g. adjectival and adverbial phrases etc. herself and she has a degree in Communications as well as teaching.

I've tried googling to see what I can find and have come up with the following - http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/17/2393989.htm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/students-want-more-english-grammar/story-e6frg6no-1111117494048
http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2008/12/chairman-rudd-s-education-revolution

Maybe the suggestion was to teach more grammar than what is being covered currently?

 

[GreatPig]

I'm sure when I was at school we were taught to say "John & I". Now its "John & me"???

It depends on the context. 'I' is the subject, 'me' the object, so it depends where in the sentence it is. Just leave out John and see if it still sounds right.

John and I went fishing (I went fishing).

He gave the kudos to John and me (he gave the kudos to me).

GP

 

[Perp]

I'm sure when I was at school we were taught to say "John & I". Now its "John & me"???

Just leave out John and see if it still sounds right.

John and I went fishing (I went fishing).

He gave the kudos to John and me (he gave the kudos to me).

You beat me to it, GP. This is a handy little tip that I heard from a journo many years ago, and it's really simple - why wasn't I taught that in school?

 

[travelbug]

No offense intended so hope none was taken.

I can only go by my 6 & 10 year old grandsons that I tutor, plus some other primary kids I know from other schools whom I've asked questions of. (I have asked around to check what goes on in different schools). The 10 year old vaguely remembers a rhyme about nouns are the names of things and both grandkids sort of remember vowels and consonants being mentioned, but not reinforced. Answers from kids from other schools are similar.

I distinctly remember hearing a news item earlier this year about grammar being re-introduced. I remember talking to my sister about it (she's worked in schools for over 20 years but isn't a teacher), and she'd heard it too and wondered, like me, who would teach it. I also recently chatted with a reading recovery teacher about it and she said similar things to me and my sister. My own daughter (a high school English teacher) says she doesn't have to teach grammar, and has never been taught parts of speech e.g. adjectival and adverbial phrases etc. herself and she has a degree in Communications as well as teaching.

I've tried googling to see what I can find and have come up with the following - http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/10/17/2393989.htm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/students-want-more-english-grammar/story-e6frg6no-1111117494048
http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2008/12/chairman-rudd-s-education-revolution

Maybe the suggestion was to teach more grammar than what is being covered currently?

No offense taken

I see you are mainly talking about High School and I can't comment there.
As I mentioned it is in the curriculum but so are thousands of other things. Years ago we had an English syllabus (one book). Now we have dozens (English only) on text types, literacy, talking and listening, spelling etc. The curriculum keeps getting expanded and unfortunately there are only so many hours in the day. I can see how grammar may not be on the top of everyone's list. Not saying that it's not taught but there are degrees of how something is taught.
I'm a firm believer in a phonics approach to reading (even before it came back into fashion) and I do lots of it in the first term of school and some throughout the year. It give me the results I'm after. It is in the curriculum (of course) but there are no guidelines of time. I know teachers who "do it" for 5 minutes a day and consider it done.
When I taught Year 6 I found the kids had good grammar knowledge but the ones who were good said their parents taught them.
Like in every profession there are good and bad. Unfortunately you can't pick your child's teacher but sometimes the ones the parents think are nice aren't the good teachers, they just know how to talk the talk.

So, as mentioned it's there but time is limited and individual teachers place emphasis on different things. Sometimes I feel guilty sometimes because I don't have the beautiful artwork on every inch of my walls but at the end of the year more of my kids are independent readers and writers and can spell better than half the kids in the next year. Each year it gets more frustrating with the amount "they" expect.
The curriculum states to teach 26 sounds in the first year (we teach 42). But next year we are expected to teach 26 sounds in first term. Now I work in an area that achieves in the top of the state. I don't know how other schools (and the kids) will cope. That's going to be interesting.


So good on you, your grandkids will thank you for you support.
I've got 2 little grandkids and already I'm getting annoyed (privately) at the things the preschool is pushing on my granddaughter (3yrs). My stepdaughter thinks they are wonderful. Teaching the first year of school I see the damage they cause. Oh well, it gives me things to try to fix.

 

[natmarie73]

It depends on the context. 'I' is the subject, 'me' the object, so it depends where in the sentence it is. Just leave out John and see if it still sounds right.

John and I went fishing (I went fishing).

He gave the kudos to John and me (he gave the kudos to me).

GP

What a great way to remember this! I always thought it was John and I, and that only trashy magazines used John and me because the journos and editors didn't know any better. I didn't learn this at school either BTW.

The one thing that gets my goat up is apostrophes used incorrectly - especially in regards to "juicy fresh tomatoe's". ARRRRRGH!

 

[Wake]

It depends on the context. 'I' is the subject, 'me' the object, so it depends where in the sentence it is. Just leave out John and see if it still sounds right.

John and I went fishing (I went fishing).

He gave the kudos to John and me (he gave the kudos to me).

GP

Thanks, GreatPig. I was never taught that. Makes more sense now.

 

[ianvestor]

A man eating tiger is a lot different from a man-eating tiger.

Hehe, this example is way funnier:

Living off 2 minute noodles is a lot different than living off 2-minute noodles.

 

[Witzl]

Hehe, this example is way funnier:

Living off 2 minute noodles is a lot different than living off 2-minute noodles.

Worse still....

I helped my uncle jack off his horse.... vs ... I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse.

 

[ianvestor]

That reminds me of another source of confusion for some people: capitalisation for Mum and Dad...

Yesterday, my mum and my dad visited me. (In this case 'mum' and 'dad' are nouns)
vs
Yesterday, Mum and Dad visited me. (In this case 'Mum' and 'Dad' are names)

 

[JulieW]

chopping wood:

'When I nod my head, you hit it."

I always giggle at that one.

and there's one attributed to Winston Churchill, on the convulutions required to follow some supposed rules of grammar:

'That is the type of language up with which I will not put'.

Or as W. Bush once said:

"You teach a child to read, and he or her will be able to pass a literacy test.''

 

[tess85]

Lol... there are more bush-isms here!
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm

 

[wobbycarly]

Don't start that one, Tess! That's a thread in itself - or in fact, a whole website as evidenced!

 

[tess85]

Lol


"Anyone engaging in illegal financial transactions will be caught and persecuted." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 19, 2008

 

[skater]

Worse still....

I helped my uncle jack off his horse.... vs ... I helped my Uncle Jack off his horse.

Sheesh! Thanks for that one. I nearly choked on the pizza I was eating.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re aitch vs haitch - my understanding was 'aitch' was something the 'upper class' affected during the 1700/1800s in England to differentiate themselves from the proletariat...I personally think haitch is acceptable.

I believe literary convention is also to spell out numerals/numbers less than 10. So whom ever was referring to a "3 year old child" should have written "three year old child". Or "three-year-old-child". Which ever was correct.

 

[ianvestor]

So whom ever was referring to a "3 year old child" should have written "three year old child". Or "three-year-old-child". Which ever was correct.

Um neither. It should be "three-year-old child"

 

[JamesGG]

I believe literary convention is also to spell out numerals/numbers less than 10.

Ah, another one of my habits. In most cases, I'll spell out numbers that don't require a hyphen, or an 'and'. So, for me, that would include figures such as thirty, and six hundred. Currency is an obvious exception, though.

 

[Perp]

I believe literary convention is also to spell out numerals/numbers less than 10.

I know this is in the Australian Government Style Guide, but I don't think that makes it incorrect to write numbers under ten as 5; it just means that if you're writing something that's supposed to conform with the Style Guide you should write "five".

I don't think Jan and Ian specified that SS postings should comply with the Style Guide.

 

[Olly]

I see you are mainly talking about High School

Um, no - primary actually

When I taught Year 6 I found the kids had good grammar knowledge but the ones who were good said their parents taught them.

I can see where that would be so. The more involvement by the parents or regular helper the better. It's not just the schools or teachers job to educate.

I've got 2 little grandkids and already I'm getting annoyed (privately) at the things the preschool is pushing on my granddaughter (3yrs).

I get annoyed at some of the things taught currently in primary school. My main pet hate being how times tables are taught. Can you tell me why times tables are taught as - 8x1, 8x2, 8x3 instead of 1x8, 2x8, 3x8. I believe 1x8, 2x8, 3x8 is the correct way to teach the 8 times table as you are teaching about different amounts of 8's (the focus is on the 8). Whereas the other way is teaching 8 lots of 1's and 8 lots of 2's etc. The focus is on a different number each time! Rather than confuse my gs by bagging the way he is being taught, instead I've taught him how reversing the table also works e.g 8x2 gives the same result as 2x8 and use matches or scraps of paper to prove it, so if he can't think of the answer given to him one way try reversing it if it's easier to work out.

 

[Olly]

I've noticed the word 'quite' is used for both quite and quiet by some people and I don't think it's a typo.

I think a lot comes back to enunciation and pronunciation. If that's not used and corrected as we learn to speak then come primary school time and phonetics, kids are trying to spell a word like it sounds as they say it which quite often is wrong.