Micro apartments.

[Richard Feynman]

There seems to be an increasing acceptance of TINY, TINY apartments, especially among younger people in big, expensive cities.

Here, for example, is an architect-designed place measuring in at an astonishing 12m²:

http://www.wired.com/design/2012/05/paris-apartment/?pid=351&viewall=true

The first micro apartments development in New York will be on the way soon in Manhattan with apartments ranging from 23-34m²: http://www.fastcodesign.com/1671701/micro-apartments-give-a-hint-of-city-livings-future#7

And if you've ever walked through an IKEA, you'll have seen how well they can use a 25-50m² space for 1-4 people e.g.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofx2ALOPMXM and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9e4VFv4Wx8

Just curious about three things:

1) What's the smallest (legal) dwelling you know of in Australia?
2) Could you live in a very small, very efficiently designed apartment as a single, couple or small family?
3) Anyone imagine there would be potential for micro apartment developments near Sydney's CBD – for both buyers an renters?

As for me, single, I'd happily live in sub 30m² if it was as well thought out as some of the above examples. I also imagine there'd be a market (both renters and owner occupiers) for micro apartments in Sydney. Buyers could get in earlier, for less, and live in more desirable locations for less. Same for renters.

 

[kathryn d]

In one of our apt buildings (Canada) we have about 3 units that would be this size or smaller.

 

[westminster]

I think they are also a great idea for affordable living for city workers - the blue collar kind or juniors/paraprofessionals/nurses etc

I love the little apartments in Ikea. Europe has embraced small living for a long time - I bet Asia has too but we hear less design concepts from them - shame.

I encountered cultural bias about apartments the other week. I'm building some 3 bedroom apartments across the road from a park. The council did not understand why any family would want to live in an apartment - sigh! Many cultures have families that live in apartments

 

[westminster]

That micro apartment is cool - it's taken many concepts that are popular in caravans - i.e. the pull out storage and beds.

Love it.

 

[Ed Barton]

There seems to be an increasing acceptance of TINY, TINY apartments, especially among younger people in big, expensive cities.

Not so sure about tiny tiny, but certainly smaller. The biggest hurdle is finance. Even as a cash investor I wouldn't buy something that I would have trouble selling because buyers couldn't get finance.

That may change if banks relaxed min space requirements.

1) What's the smallest (legal) dwelling you know of in Australia?

No idea - I guess hotel room size. I've seen places that I'd estimate are 20-30m2.

2) Could you live in a very small, very efficiently designed apartment as a single, couple or small family?

As a single uni student I would have gladly sacrificed space for a lower rent. I only slept there and most socialising happened outside of my home.

As a single older guy I need a decent kitchen and dining room - somewhere to entertain. At a minimum, a room for an office, and at least one guest bedroom.

3) Anyone imagine there would be potential for micro apartment developments near Sydney's CBD – for both buyers an renters?

It's currently called student accommodation. See above, until banks change their view then it won't take off. I think there is some demand but the supply is limited by banks.

As for me, single, I'd happily live in sub 30m² if it was as well thought out as some of the above examples. I also imagine there'd be a market (both renters and owner occupiers) for micro apartments in Sydney. Buyers could get in earlier, for less, and live in more desirable locations for less. Same for renters.

Again, financing.

 

[jim1964]

That micro apartment is cool

Its only a matter of time that we embrace this type of living as normal and acceptable,especially in major cities.As the thought process changes with time regarding affordable,smart housing,smart lenders will see the benefits and be on board in a flash.

 

[datto]

Ever been on the Indian Pacific sleeper cabin?

Man, it's small, about 5 sq m,yet its got a bed, toilet , wash basin and a corner spa. OK I'm joking about the spa but the cabin is small and functional.

I'd like to see a block with such rooms. It would be a real money spinner. Need to be selective with tenants eg student accommodation.

 

[luckyone]

I'd like it on the gold coast so we could have a cheap apartment up there to use whenever we wanted and not worry about renting it out cause it's so cheap.

 

[GreenMedallion]

I wouldn't mind living in a small apartment.

 

[Richard Feynman]

Nice to see some input here.

I'd love to see a developer push a building of dwellings of this size through and get it up in a Sydney hotspot to see how it goes.

If something like this existed in the inner west where I own my PPOR (1 br), I'd have happily saved myself $100k-$150k and bought a micro apartment. Lose nothing (in my opinion) and gain a lot of momentum (in terms of investing).

Ed, I'd question using "student accommodation" to describe these kind of micro apartments, as the one point of difference is they're nice, well designed and very space efficient. Most student accommodation I've come across is not only small but space is poorly utilised and it's not very functional.

 

[attrill]

This is becoming more common in places like Hong Kong or Tokyo. Very small spaces, but very clever use of it. It may be some time before this is common in Australia, but as population increases, and if this population desires to live in cities, then it may be inevitable...

Just a thought...

Here is a link to such a place in Hong Kong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-iFJ3ncIDo

 

[Savanna100]

The smallest apartment I ever assessed for approval whilst working at Sydney City Council in the 1990s was 27 sqm. The development was in Chalmers st and never went ahead. Later the Council limited the size to more than 50 sqm. I'm not sure if that is still one of their requirements.

 

[Corey Batt]

I sure hope Australia doesn't move in this direction.. We have have enough land to be able to live in places large enough to swing a cat at a minimum. Degradation of quality of life...

The 'tiny' end I come across here is circa 40sqm, except for the pidgeon hole uni apartments which are substantially smaller iirc.

 

[Richard Feynman]

I've inspected a number of places in NSW 31-35m² built probably 15+ years ago so I know at least at some time that size was ok here.

Still nothing definitive on a minimum dwelling size in AUS or any of its states?

 

[Bats]

Have just returned from Vietnam and saw a 32 storey building selling 19 sq m apartments for AUD80K.

The local population were not concerned about the size.

 

[sanj]

I sure hope Australia doesn't move in this direction.. We have have enough land to be able to live in places large enough to swing a cat at a minimum. Degradation of quality of life...

The 'tiny' end I come across here is circa 40sqm, except for the pidgeon hole uni apartments which are substantially smaller iirc.

of course we have lots of land but these sort of apartments would be built right in the middle of CBDs etc, which we dont have a lot of.

I have no problem with it but certainly dont see it happening to this extent.

I imagine there would be a lot of people willing to live in smartly esigned 25-40sqm spaces if prices started at say 200-250k and they were right in the middle of town.

 

[Ideo]

I'm a big fan of them.

Giving choice and diversity to the housing market has to be a good thing.

 

[westminster]

I've inspected a number of places in NSW 31-35m² built probably 15+ years ago so I know at least at some time that size was ok here.

Still nothing definitive on a minimum dwelling size in AUS or any of its states?

In WA it is 40sqm minimum size excluding outdoor living (min 10sqm) and external storage (min 4sqm)

Reference R Codes 7.4.3

 

[Aaron Sice]

thats 40sqm plot ratio, on the title it could be as low as 35sqm.

 

[Peter Parker]

This Pravda article describes how internet cafes have been subdivided into small apartments the size of two tatami mats in Tokyo. You can't stand up in them.

http://english.pravda.ru/society/stories/07-03-2013/124000-tokyo_mini_apartments-0/

In one of the most densely populated Asian cities, Tokyo, real estate prices are so undemocratic that a part of the population of the city is forced to live in most bizarre and unusual "apartments." So-called Internet refugees permanently live in the booths and cubicles of Internet cafe. Some even manage to rent a locker to live in. The 11-million-strong Moscow may use this experience some time in the future.