Million ready to brave the housing bubble

I think that it's quite interesting- and a sign perhaps that despite all the negative talk, there's such a huge numer still wanting to invest into property.
Wizard's head of consumer information and advocacy, Lisa Montgomery, said the report suggests the property market is facing a softening, rather than a bust.

"Next year's property investors are in fact the cushion for that soft landing."
860,000 investors probably have more influence on the market than any number of newspaper reporters.
 
It's the herd Geoff....

I sometimes don't think people on this forum realise how lucky a position they are in.

By the time people on this forum are having heated debates about whether it's time to cash up or not. .... The herd are still making their minds up on whether now is finally the time to buy.....

The number of people ( outside this forum ) I've heard talking about investing in Tasmania in the last few months is amazing. The papers started talking about it about six months ago.

I heard people taking about it here as a good place to buy about two years ago .....

See Change
 
Originally posted by see_change
The number of people ( outside this forum ) I've heard talking about investing in Tasmania in the last few months is amazing. The papers started talking about it about six months ago.

I heard people taking about it here as a good place to buy about two years ago .....

Agreed Sea_Change,

And for at least six months now I've seen posts in the forum talking about how the Tassie boom is now over & the long-term fundamentals are poor :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Acey

they've been talking about how the long term fundamentals are poor in Tasmania, for as long as I've been here. That still didn't stop it booming.

See change
 
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Originally posted by geoffw
I think that it's quite interesting- and a sign perhaps that despite all the negative talk, there's such a huge numer still wanting to invest into property.

As we all know there are people who want to invest and they do the seminar things then go home and say one day I will do it and never do.

I had 18 years of knowing what I should of done before I went out and done it :eek:

bundy
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but it also seems to me that there are many out there who dont even know that there is talk of a bubble.

If most on this forum do its because we clearly are a little bit more interested in keeping up to date with it. being here kind of proves this.
Some of my closest friends dont follow the property market at all but pick up vibes about 6 months to a year too late. If I was to ask them where they would invest $100K they would say property. If I asked why they'd say something like shares suck because my super fund has lost me money 3 years in a row OR I've got a friend who has just made $150K profit in 2 years from selling a unit on the Gold Coast. so the obvious place to be is property for the average non-investor.

If these people are going to be buying next year I'd say the booms got just a little bit left in it.

Like I;ve said a few times before. IT wont end till it can do the most damage to the most number of people. Thats how booms and busts work.
 
LB

You're not wrong.

I'm not sure on the source , but I've heard it repeated a few times that

most people who buy an investment property loose money

These are the people who are buying average properties in sydney and Melbourne, and in the next year of so will decide that Brisbane or north Queensland are good places to buy IP's.

They don't have a good reason ( from a logical investment perspective ) why they are buying , outside a feeling that buying an investment property is a good idea.

Your list on another post ( with a couple of points that other people have disputed) are similar to my thinking about investing in property , however , I disagree with you on one BIG point. I still think there is money to be made in the current cycle.

see change
 
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Another interesting bit

"the average household income was $92,000, up 14 per cent from $80,800 a year earlier. The proportion with household incomes over $140,000 has also doubled in the past 12 months to 18 per cent."

There is clearly no shortage of people who can afford to buy, and are doing so.
 
One thing that has recently been generally over looked in the current debate over boom vs Bust is the observation that during the last property boom , rates were going up.

Why ?

People ( in my recollection ) were buying so they could lock in rates....

BEFORE THEY WENT ANY HIGHER....

With all the talk about impending rate rises , maybe the same effect will kick in here.

I liked this quote from the Pascoe article that has been linked on another post http://investor.ninemsn.com.au/investor/News/Pascoe/story_686.asp[/URL]

"According to the Neilson survey, commissioned by Wizard Home Loans, some 860,000 Australians intend to buy an investment property in the next year. Of course it only takes a moment’s thought to realise that is simply impossible, but it still speaks volumes about confidence in property investment and the power of the herd".

see changehttp://
 
Thats true.
860,000 people - thats obviously not just FHB's.
One thing that would make me wonder is
WHO WOULD RENT ALL THESE PROPERTIES??
 
Thats true.
860,000 people - thats obviously not just FHB's.
One thing that would make me wonder is
WHO WOULD RENT ALL THESE PROPERTIES??

Well I guess that everyone who answered or ticked the option to buy in the next year or so possibly wont get around to doing it!

I doubt they put much thought into their answer but just felt it was something they should do because everyone else was beating it up at parties, on TV etc!

Cheers,
 
According to the Neilson survey, some 860,000 Australians intend to buy an investment property in the next year. Of course it only takes a moment’s thought to realise that is simply impossible,
If 860,000 buyers are out there, then all it needs is for 860,000 sellers, and we have the makings of another boom !!
Is it impossible ? Improbable yes, but impossible ?
 
Originally posted by abcdiamond
If 860,000 buyers are out there, then all it needs is for 860,000 sellers, and we have the makings of another boom !!
Is it impossible ? Improbable yes, but impossible ?

Frankly this survey is rubbish!

There are always plenty of people who would 'intend' to buy an IP in any 12 month period.

But how many will actually do it? This is the real unknown.

And these people may change their opinions at any time based on changes in the economic climate over the next year - many are sure to change their minds should the media promote shares as the investment to have!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

PS: I intend to take up scuba diving in the next twelve months - everyone buy up scuba schools!
 
I think the Wizard Home survey asked people what would be the area to invest. In that manner, people were just responding with the obvious, that property was the area to invest.

In the last 2 years when friends asked me where to invest, my answer was also 'property'. How many of them invested? About 20% took my advice.

Do not dismiss property easily. It should slow down but not dismissed. Opportunities are still around.

Note article in Weekend Australian (National Metro) 1 November 2003 page 4 about the price of units in Melbourne. Not all unit prices are reduced. Dockland and Southbank prices are reduced "but across the city prices are still edging up" in a climate of imminent rate increase. Unfortunately, this may not be what some of you want to hear. :)
 
Declaration of interest first, I don't own anything in Australia yet, but I am looking to buy, for owner-occupying, not for investment.

From what I read, a significant part of the realty frenzy has been fueled by overseas investors from Asia, uh, me being one of them. I have seen how people from where I grew up, Hong Kong, pushed up Vancouver BC's realty to an unsustainable level before it crashed 50%. I was also lucky enough to stay out of the massive crash in HK realty market which lost 70% of its value in 6 years.

Some observations from the persepctive of an overseas investor. First, Australian property has gone up way more than what is denominated in AUD. We need to take into consideration the AUD appreciation as well. But you may say, rental is also collected in AUD, right? Well, not that simple. An investor who is originally looking at buying a 400K AUD home now has to shell out 30% more due to currency appreciation plus the gain of housing value, which means, he may be forced to look at a less desirable neighborhood for the same budget, or dispose of other assets to fund this investment. That creates a higher entry barrier for overseas investors.

Second, most overseas investors are putting money in units, well, because Asians are more familiar with units, despite the fact that it is a terrible investment vehicle. I was particularly interested in inner city Brisbane. A couple of months ago I was walking down the streets in CBD, stunned at how many units that were being put up. Right now, I see quite a few of the finished 2-bedroom new units being advertised for AUD350-400 a week. How many people in Brisbane make that kind of paycheck to fill up thousands of new units in the pipeline? If I were a Brisbane local and I could afford a 350-a-week rent, I'd be stupid not to plunge that money into my own mortgage, especially with such a low interest rate and a generous first-time buyer incentive. The scene in Brisbane CBD also reminds me of the days just before the crash in Vancouver downtown. Some realty agents told me that the Asian students at UQ and QUT can suck up the supply fast, well, the last time I checked, I didn't see either university increasing their slots by the magnitude of thousands.

Third, it's the yield stupid! An overseas investor doesn't fall in love with the city, he falls in love with the yield. With the current gross rental yield hovering around 4%, I'd say leaving my money with AUD government bond is a safer and better bet (gross 4.5%). Capital gains? How can the value of a home keep growing while the yield keeps dropping? I am talking about the yield situation in Brisbane since I have long ignored Sydney, which I predict will crash quite spectacularly in a matter of months.

So, I guess my conclusion is, if what you are looking at to invest attracts a strong mix of overseas investors, or speculators, keep away. Keep away from units/apartments. Keep away from CBD. I personally don't think Brisbane is going to crash, so to speak, but I won't be suprised to see a 15-20% general downward adjustment in price as compared to the peak, which is perhaps now, perahps in another 6 months.
 
Youve hit the nail on the head Lilith.

If you ask people here though, many will say property cant crash in australia for one reason or another, even though the same kind of warning signs are all there.

LB
 
Originally posted by L Bernham
Youve hit the nail on the head Lilith.

Hang on L Bernham, you've confused me again.

You are agreeing with Lilith.

Lilith has said that she believes that the big crash will be in units/apartments but not in houses.

And her prediction for a decline is 15-20% - yours is 35-40% - substantially higher!

So how are you agreeing with her?

Frankly the point about o/s investors is partially true. Novice o/s investors do go for the unit complexes, but largely look for returns via cashflow not CG.

And outside of major metros (and resort/sunny coastal areas), o/s investors have limited if any impact on Australian property markets.


Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
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