Non responsive tennants-what would you do

Hey guys

Bought a 2br unit in Western Sydney and settled at Chrissy. I took the PM duties from the selling agent and gave it to my PM. From what we can gather, the old agency had no luck in getting in to view the property in the year that they had it on their books.

My PM has done everything bar camp on the door step to gain access to view the prop, to no avail. We are now on the cusp of March and she still cant get in. Most of the time she just cant get the tennant and when she has, he has made a time, then cancelled at the last minute, or has been interstate (he seems to spend a LOT of time interstate :rolleyes: )

Im tempted to give them their 60days notice, paint the place and re-rent it for a higher amount (which I could do) But they DO pay the rent on time... and Im loath to loose rent just because they value their privacy... or are they trashing it......

do I have any recourse for forcing my way in? Can I issue a notice to inspect and then just do it irrespective of the tennants permission or not?

would appreciate your experience/thoughts...
 
Once upon a time my uncle used to deliver summonses? spell?

any way he used to visit them at night , and if their was no answer he would go and have a coffee , and quitly come back and pull out the fuse , then the people would come around with a torch and then hand the summons , ;)
 
Yep, I think the PM just issues a notice of their intention to go in.
The rules differ from state to state. We have PMs do this all the time to help our guys get in.
But you would be amazed how often PMs don't have a set of keys to a place.
 
I wonder why your PM has not issued a "notice to enter" or whatever it may be called in your state and just "enter".
 
Two things..

Firstly, 'how do you get access'; in NSW you can only enter 4 times per year unless it is an emergency. Your PM does need to give written notice and he is obliged to work with the tenant in setting an suitable time. If this fails (and it appears it will), your PM can apply to the Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal CTTT who will grant you an access order if you can show (you must keep accurate records) that the tenant is withholding reasonable access. Reasonable is the key word here.
Secondly, 'should you bother'; this is just an opinion, but if you settled in December - I would guess you last viewed the unit in November. If the same tenant was there in Nov and it wasn't trashed, you can probably be fairly sure it hasn't been trashed since. To reassure yourself, get a hold of the tenant's application form from the PM's file and see what kind of job he/she has. If they work as a cleaner - 'the interstate for business' might be a bit dubious. Also regarding the re-let option; don't forget to factor the letting fee, lease prep fee and empty property costs into your budget when thinking about changing over a tenant.
 
Firstly, 'how do you get access'; in NSW you can only enter 4 times per year unless it is an emergency. Your PM does need to give written notice and he is obliged to work with the tenant in setting an suitable time. If this fails (and it appears it will), your PM can apply to the Consumer, Trader and Tenancy Tribunal CTTT who will grant you an access order if you can show (you must keep accurate records) that the tenant is withholding reasonable access. Reasonable is the key word here.
Secondly, 'should you bother'; this is just an opinion, but if you settled in December - I would guess you last viewed the unit in November. If the same tenant was there in Nov and it wasn't trashed, you can probably be fairly sure it hasn't been trashed since. To reassure yourself, get a hold of the tenant's application form from the PM's file and see what kind of job he/she has. If they work as a cleaner - 'the interstate for business' might be a bit dubious. Also regarding the re-let option; don't forget to factor the letting fee, lease prep fee and empty property costs into your budget when thinking about changing over a tenant.

HI there PropertyMan,

As you are probably aware, the 4 times per year is for a "general inspection."

To sell a property, the agent can enter the property on ANY number of occasions as long as the tenant is given reasonable notice.

What is reasonable falls between the landlord and the tenant. Any dispute over what has been reasonable can be taken up with the Tribunal. I am sure that if the Agent has been giving the tenant literally months of "reasonable" notice, the Tribunal will rule in the Landlord's favour.

Your tenant should be warned that access has been denied and that if forced, you will take matters to the Tribunal and the tenant will incur the costs.

I would try a letter first and then give them 60 days notice.

Regards JO
 
On further thought, imagine if Luvitt wants to increase his/her loan and an internal val needs to be done? Hmmm.

Regards JO
 
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Hi Josko

I would be a little careful quoting 'ANY number of occasions. I have had several orders in the CTTT that would disagree with this interpretation. At the risk of restating myself, reasonable is the term up for discussion with the Tribunal. What may seem reasonable for the owner is often not reasonable for the tenant and the Tribunal Member must make an order one way or the other.

One other small note - the CTTT does not award costs, so I assume your comment must mean the tenant's 'out-of-pocket' expenses?

Enjoying the forums..:)
 
I would be inclined to give them notice, then get in some new tenants at an increased rate. I have zero tollerance to tenants that want to play games.
 
From what we can gather, the old agency had no luck in getting in to view the property in the year that they had it on their books.
Have YOU seen inside the property, or has no owner or agent been inside for 15 months or more?
luvvit said:
My PM has done everything bar camp on the door step to gain access to view the prop, to no avail.
Master key?
luvvit said:
do I have any recourse for forcing my way in? Can I issue a notice to inspect and then just do it irrespective of the tennants permission or not?
Yes! Provided appropriate notice etc has been given. Your PM really should be intimately familiar with all these rules, and should be getting this done for you. If you have to come and seek our advice, I think your PM isn't doing their job.

If nobody's seen inside for 15 months or more despite rent being kept up to date etc, I'm suspecting that you're up for a repeat of atti's experience. (But I hope not.)
 
Thanks Guys

Skater, Im leaning toward getting rid of them. I viewed the place when I bought it in November, and yes, it was fine.

I've just told the PM to issue them with a 60 day termination letter and we'll see what becomes of that. Either they will get in contact with the agent, and let her in, or I get a new tennant, either way, I'll be happy to get over the games.
 
I viewed the place when I bought it in November, and yes, it was fine.
I'm glad it was fine in November and thus hopefully it's not the case that it's been trashed, just a privacy nut tenant or something.

May I ask again... "what about the MASTER KEY?" ;)

If the answer is that you don't have one, make sure you do have one before the next tenant goes in. :)
 
Being in the health industry, if I found my tenants to be non-responsive, I'd be calling '000' ASAP .......... sorry :eek:

Hope you do get the real issue sorted out quickly for you though.
 
You say they are paying the rent. I assume they are making no demands for repairs or improvements. Thuis to me are ideal tenants. Hopefully they are actually away from the unit more than at the unit - even better less wear and tear.

Why on earth do you so desperately want to go in and see the unit?

Leave them be and keep collecting the rent. If they had passed then within a week or two someone in the block would have complained about the smell;)

If the issue is you want to increase the rent and want to inspect first just put up the rent.

Cheers
 
You say they are paying the rent. I assume they are making no demands for repairs or improvements. Thuis to me are ideal tenants. Hopefully they are actually away from the unit more than at the unit - even better less wear and tear.

Agreed - leave them be and get on with your life.
 
Thanks guys

I only want my PM to get in there to do an inspection (current).... the last inspection on file is a photocopy of an inspection done 3 years ago.

THATS why.... if they trash it or whatever, I really dont have a recourse for action against the tennants. they were not in the unit when the last inspection was done, and can refute any claim I make as I dont have anything to compare it to.

Im not a nervous landlord, but I do object to not being given reasonable access to the property for a simple condition report. Yep, they are paying the rent, yep I reckon the place is fine, but Im just crossing t's and dotting i's.

PS they have responded to the termination notice and my PM is going in on Saturday to do the report.... lets see if it goes ahead.......
 
Sounds perfectly reasonable (and sensible) to me luvvit. If you bought it in November and it settled around Christmas time and they haven't had an inspection since you've owned it they are pretty well due one anyway, irregardless of when they might have had one from the previous owner. It's not as though you are asking for anything out of the ordinary. I would think that when the new PM has had the listing for three months he or she can then let themselves in if the tenant is being difficult, maybe not before that though, unless the tenant agrees.

We have a new tenant with no references (just sold their own house) on a three month lease at the moment and the PM arranged an early inspection and wrote it into the lease. The full three months rent has been paid up front but the PM still thought an early inspection was in order given the circumstances. I'm sure she will be letting herself in if they try to stonewall her, she's a pitbull, ;) a rather tiny, pretty pitbull, but a pitbull just the same.:D

As a matter of interest will the notice to terminate be cancelled if the inspection does go ahead, assuming all is well of course.
 
reasonable is the term up for discussion with the Tribunal.

Yes, it's a key word. So key that you'd think that it could be written down somewhere as to exactly what reasonable means and save valuable Tribunal time.

If a tenanted property is being sold, is it reasonable for it to be shown twice every 24 hours, or once a fortnight? It should be defined. How hard is that?
 
It is unfortunate, Amadio, but we have to live within the constraints of the law. It may be reasonable for a single person dwelling with a single male occupant to be viewed twice a day whilst for sale, but it may not be reasonable for a 4 bedroom home with an invalid hubby, nightshift working mum and six children under 10yo to have more than one visit
(prefer open house) per fortnight.

Hey Luvvit - It's good to learn that things are moving for you. Good Luck..!
 
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