Not MORE about Jenman!!!

C

CAD Guy

Hi all.

I know, I know. The topic of Neil Jenman has been done to death. But I can't resist.

I went to his "Don't Buy Anything" seminar in Ballarat last night to hear what he had to say. I was very sceptical going in, and my viewpoint hasn't changed much since. It was well worth hearing what he had to say though.

I'm just curious, for those of you who know what Jenman is all about, what do you think will happen to the market if Jenman's Ethics proposals become a standard in real estate? How will it impact home buyers/sellers/investors?

(Can't resist giving you this quote that I took towards the end of his seminar too... "The only way to get rich quickly in real estate is to rip people off or be dishonest..." Thanks Neil.)
 
Do you have a link to a document which outlines his proposals ?

(PS. people, keep this on topic - we are talking about his proposals and their potential impact on the market and not talking about Jenman himself !!)
 
The stuff I read about it is rather commendable(honesty in RE dealings), but at the same time I am more than suspicious that
this will ever work without goverment legislated framework.

I am talking here either bipartisan rules for ALL states or federally initiated ones.

For example, if such a thing as a "house worthy certificate" could be required for every sale at the vendor's expense (obviously the cost would be included in the sale price) would help to rid of several currently existing problems and would benefit all parties concerned.

But somehow I do not raise my hopes, due to the very extensive special interest groups who would NOT benefit out of it and would shoot it down with some rubbish, like it would already increase the already high buying cost. While it is true, what about reducing the Stamp Duty by the same rate?? What about making the Stamp Duty CPI based, not percentage based? What about abolishing it supposed to be with the introduction of the GST?

Regarding to the point that someone has to be either dishonest or a cheat to make money in real estate (sometimes quite quickly)
I have to strongly disagree.

The price of ANYTHING (including real estate) is the one a willing buyer and a willing seller meet in a given point in time.

This could be 'unfair' based on some assumptions (like forced sale), but this is the REAL value of the goods (ie real estate) in question at that time, so it is not 'fair' or 'unfair' but the REAL price.

The same principle exist in ALL things in life, not only in real estate, so I personally do not understand what is the big issue about it. Just because it is more expensive? I dunno, but the latest singing dancing Rollce Royce is available around $1 million if I am correct. If one is silly enough (only in my opinion) to spend such an amount on a very fastly depreciable piece of mechanised
piece of metal, it is their right. The salesman on 10% commission will be very happy, but is he ripping off the buyer? Or the manufacturer is ripping off the buyer? Or the buyer could not give a stuff about the price but rather interested in the perceived 'value' of it? Or the buyer has more money than grey cells?

Just my view.


Tibor
 
Am I missing something folks, ore does the Jenman approach ask that auctions only be used if agents are prepared to refund investigation costs to potential buyers.


No one forces anyone to buy anything or to spend any money investigating anything in this world.

Some people research more than others etc......

Despite reading some Jenman material, I cannot see what is wrong with Auctions for any regular commercial transaction.

We can regulate against misleading conduct, dummy bids etc, but really, people are adults. Can someone educte me on the objections here? I am not an agent, but do not understand the problem.

Will1
 
Will1,

Jenman is against all auctions except, perhaps, dutch auctions with hidden bids (just give us your best offer, we'll compare them and sell to the highest).

The reasons are explained quite well his books - why not grab a set - they are free :)

Personally I don't like auctions either - they don't get the best price, they get the minimum that the vendor will accept & he buyer is willing to pay (this is one of Jenman's points as well).

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
I don't like auctions because (as a part of due diligence) I have to pay for inspections for every property I wouldlike to bid for
 
Originally posted by Aceyducey

Personally I don't like auctions either - they don't get the best price, they get the minimum that the vendor will accept & he buyer is willing to pay (this is one of Jenman's points as well).
Click to expand...

But is this always the case Acey? I’ve been to numerous auctions that have sold way over market value, as there were a couple of bidders desperate for the property. One recently was a mortgagees auction where the vendors reserve didn’t come into it. So I’m not really convinced that auctions always get a lower price.

Personally I don’t particularly like them either, but a lot of time you don’t have much choice, especially if you live in Melbourne.


Ruby :)
 
Ruby,

Over 'market value' doesn't equal best price :)

Market value is nothing more than a guestimate based on comps & trends.

Unless if it is clearly an investor only property, you have emotional bids being made - there is no way I know to access the 'emotional value' of a property, and if you ask the successful bidder at most auctions I'm sure that they would have been willing to pay a bit more for the place, maybe thousands more - it's unlikely that the price the property sells for is the absolute maximum they would pay for the place.

I will admit, however, that it takes a good ngotiator to get the maximum return for a property via negotiation sales - and few agents are excellent negotiators because while they work for the vendor, buyers become vendors at some point as well & many think that if they annoy the buyer they won't get the repeat business.

Actually the reverse is true - when I find an agent who dos a fantastic job of extracting the most out of me I keep their details, cause if I wanted to sell, they'd be a good person to sell via :) (though not everyone thinks this way)

It's simple to avoid auctions - put in bids before the auction, look for the 30%+ that pass in & buy properties that aren't being auctioned.

Personally we've only bid for a property once at auction (though have been to many, many auctions) & it went above our max so we bought another one by negotiation - which proved a better deal anyway :)

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
There is not one unfair or dishonest agreement in the following guarentee:

http://www.jenman.com.au/Downloads/Consumer_Protection_Guarantee.pdf

If an agent refuses to sign any of the agreements then its only because of the traditionally reinforced dishonest ways of the real estate industry, and they think its giving too much power to the vendor if they sign it.

But the reality is that it isnt giving too much power to the vendor, its about a level playing field between vendor and agent.

Only in the traditional real estate industrys' dishonest view does it seem like the vendor has the upper hand if the agreement is signed.
 
Originally posted by Aceyducey
and if you ask the successful bidder at most auctions I'm sure that they would have been willing to pay a bit more for the place, maybe thousands more - it's unlikely that the price the property sells for is the absolute maximum they would pay for the place.
Click to expand...

I agree with you to a point Acey, but I'd also be very interested to know how many actually go way over their limit.......and spend many thousands more than should have. We can generalize here all we like. But the point is auctions, although we might not like them can be a valid way of selling.....and I'm sure are here to stay. Like most things, we can make the choice of buying at them or not. :)

There is not one unfair or dishonest agreement in the following guarentee:
Click to expand...

Are you sure your surname isn't Jenman.....brains? :D
 
Originally posted by geoffw
I wonder sometimes...

Though if I made any comment about Jenman & brains, I might have lawyers knocking :D
Click to expand...

HAHA.....you're a scream Geoff.....love waking up to your humor in the morning.

Besides Ruby's rhetorical question, do you guys agree with my statement?
 
I like some of his ideas, but some - well they suck.

For example - No advertising - what's that about?

The only ads they put in (well in my area anyway) are those annoying "dont sign anything" etc ads - hardy encouraging.

I like "cruising the ads". I don't like having to sit with an agent to find out what's on the books. Wastes my time and theirs.

Only think is, he does have a point about the ads and kickbacks, but not advertising at all - silly.
 
Originally posted by brains
HAHA.....you're a scream Geoff.....love waking up to your humor in the morning.

Besides Ruby's rhetorical question, do you guys agree with my statement?
Click to expand...

I disagree with (at least) one of the conditions (only just read it :p )

I have a problem with Condition 16: Withdrawing from Sale

16. Withdrawing from Sale
The agent agrees…
Should the sellers decide to withdraw the property from sale for any reason, there will be no charges payable by the sellers to the agent (or any company or service provider directly connected to the agent). Under no circumstances is the agent entitled to place
a ‘caveat’ or claim a ‘lien’ on the sellers’ property.
Click to expand...

I think its patently unfair to ask an agent to actively market your house for up to 7 weeks (Jenman's "49 day" clause), then, without having to provide any reason to the agent, remove your house from the market with no costs payable. So, in other words, under this agreement a vendor is empowered to have an agent at their beck and call for nearly 2 months, then for any reason they please they can just dismiss the agent without any sort of compensation for 7 weeks work... How is this fair? Or am I missing something?

Jamie :p

I wonder how many other professions would sign such an agreement? If I contracted a builder to spend 7 weeks drawing plans and designing a house for me, what would they say if I turned around and said "Sorry, dont want it anymore"? Wouldnt they (quite rightly) request payment for the work they'd performed up to that point?
 
I have just finished reading N Jenmans Book, Real Estate Mistakes,
and while i agree with his point of view regarding certain matters in the industry, there are some issues where i feel he contradicts himself, in regard to gaining listings, he has a go at agents who inflate the property price,

Quote from page 67 of said book "if you demand a quick quote on your homes selling price, many agents will either avoid or inflate the price," end quote.

Yet on page 135 of said book and i quote "Asking and selling Price are often two different prices, The way to get the highest selling price is to start with a high asking price, Do not be ashamed of your asking price. Be proud of it." end quote.

Regards Steven
 
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