Overflowing gutters - Possible damage?

[Peterw]

Turn it up. You reckon you've got a sprained ankle at the moment. So what. Leave the job for a few days and then get after it.

The nancy PM is just regurgitating some lawyer fed fear about litigation. There's a thousand and one excuses that will stop any activity stone dead if you take heed of the lawyers who spread fear and risk.

Toughen up sport.....it's cleaning a gutter.



Hey ??? There's a profession known as gutter cleaner outerers ?? You're kidding me.

One ladder, one bucket, one hand, 30 minutes. Anything else is a contrived farce.

The world has gone nuts with soft men and softer PMs repeating garbage from super soft lawyers dictating the show with their "fear" and insurance lawyers sitting over everyone making ridiculous rules to avoid claims by other soft men claiming ultra ridiculous amounts that weirdo judges award with flippant ease.

The world's gone nuts.

Dazz, I have no doubt that the majority of members on this site would agree with your sentiments, as I do .. where in the hell has personal responsibility gone .. down the toilet? Yes I fear it has. If I recall correctly, you own a shopping centre, and often complain about the rules and regulations that control your activities.

In my world the reality is, I am controlled by the law, and more particular, by both the tribunals as well as my insurers reading of the law. Each year as I renew my insurance, I have a long list to complete, detailing what our systems and procedures are. I would have thought Shopping Centre owners would need to do the same.

As soon as I receive a complaint and log a claim, the first thing the insurer does, is ask if I followed my system/procedure.

So, lets go back to gutter cleaning. Each state may be different, however to tell someone to grab a ladder, bucket and a hand in a broad brush statement is in my mind reckless. What if they fell off the ladder ... has any one thought of that. In Qld we are still dealing with the consequences of a child death from a faulty deck, and that still has a few years to travel.

Lets give advice, from the relevant state that assists the poster.

 

[fisherman]

As I recall from leases I signed in years past, the tenant was then responsible for cleaning the guttering. How that was done was up to the tenant. The tenant did it where it was convenient or otherwise hired someone to do it. That was the tenant's choice.

Over years incremental change has taken effect, by the RTA in its regulations and interpretative advice on those regulations, and by Tribunal rulings. The change has been in one direction: responsibilities that were traditionally those of the tenant have been passed to the owner.

What many people do not realise is the extent to which public officials make laws and change the intent of laws using their delegated powers. Unlike ministers they are not directly responsible in Parliament.

Of course what is also not understood is that the increasing preponderance of often minor and routine tasks to Gold Card professional tradesmen increases the overheads and in train, the rents.

 

[Dazz]

Dazz this is the best post on the forum! Too true, well done.

....you're obviously living in the real world underdev and can see the absurdity of all of these fanciful 'fears' and 'what if' nonsense.

Cheers.

 

[Dazz]

Well done? Seriously?

Ah yes, I think they were serious.

I certainly did not appreciate Dazz telling me to 'toughen up'.

I wasn't looking for your appreciation. You asked a mind numbingly simple question, and you received from me a mind numbingly simple one line answer that was more than appropriate for even the most challenged person.

There's no need for being rude.

Simple does not equate to rude. You've approached this from such a soft angle, there is no where to go other than toughen up.

I'm an older female with a sprained ankle and I have no ability to climb a ladder now or in the next few days so excuse me if I don't suddenly 'toughen up'.

Remain as soft as hot butter then. Give it a few days and you'll be back to where you started from....I've never met someone that ridiculously soft that they cannot climb a ladder....you are indeed special.

Just wondered if anyone else had any experience with overflowing gutters? The property I rent is surrounded by trees, and regularly needs the gutters cleaned. The gutters must have filled up again....​

The situation has now been resolved, thanks to those that did have good advice to offer. A roofer is coming later in the week to fix the leaks and the gutters/downpipes are now all clear and free flowing.

Well, the gutters may be clear, you'll never really know cos you never saw them - but tell me, how much was the "professional".....oh that's right, you didn't pay the bill....but for how long will they be clear if they are ?? I guess he'll be back in a jiffy doing it all again.

Who bags being the Landlord paying for this rotating circus ??

 

[Dazz]

Don't worry - he has a particular brand of humour that doesn't transmit well over the internet - although I bet he had no idea you were a lady, and not some big Harley riding due....

Turn it up Y-man.

My gutters need constantly clearing. How do you clear gutters.

With a ladder, with a bucket, with your hand, 30 minutes. Job done.

Where's the humour in that ??

I had no idea you needed to be a man to clear a gutter. The sisterhood will need to be warned this job is right up there with hand to hand combat in a war zone. Wow, sweeping leaves out of a gutter - who would of thought, other than insurance lawyers of course, that the task was that dangerous.

There's a joke.

What on earth has a big Harley riding due got to do with clearing leaves away from a gutter ??

 

[Dazz]

Dazz, I have no doubt that the majority of members on this site would agree with your sentiments, as I do .. where in the hell has personal responsibility gone .. down the toilet? Yes I fear it has.

Well instead of moaning about it Pete, why don't we do something about retrieving it back from the toilet ??

lets go back to gutter cleaning.

Yes - lets.

Each state may be different, however to tell someone to grab a ladder, bucket and a hand in a broad brush statement is in my mind reckless.

It wasn't a broad brush statement. It was a short one line answer to a mind numbingly simple task.

What if they fell off the ladder ... has any one thought of that.

What if a meteor hit them. What happens if they have a heart attack. What happens if a stray dog bites them. What happens if a sharp twig stabs them in the finger and draws blood. What if.....

You've been sucked into insurance lawyer heaven Pete. They'll throw a thousand more what ifs at ya, all of 'em designed to scare you witless.

Mate, wrap yourself in cotton wool and get fed through a straw - then you'll be safe from the big bad leaves in the gutter.

In Qld we are still dealing with the consequences of a child death from a faulty deck, and that still has a few years to travel.

.....we were talking about the simple task of clearing leaves from a gutter....what are you on about ??

 

[BayView]

Dazz, I have no doubt that the majority of members on this site would agree with your sentiments, as I do .. where in the hell has personal responsibility gone .. down the toilet? Yes I fear it has. If I recall correctly, you own a shopping centre, and often complain about the rules and regulations that control your activities.

In my world the reality is, I am controlled by the law, and more particular, by both the tribunals as well as my insurers reading of the law. Each year as I renew my insurance, I have a long list to complete, detailing what our systems and procedures are. I would have thought Shopping Centre owners would need to do the same.

As soon as I receive a complaint and log a claim, the first thing the insurer does, is ask if I followed my system/procedure.

So, lets go back to gutter cleaning. Each state may be different, however to tell someone to grab a ladder, bucket and a hand in a broad brush statement is in my mind reckless. What if they fell off the ladder ... has any one thought of that. In Qld we are still dealing with the consequences of a child death from a faulty deck, and that still has a few years to travel.

Lets give advice, from the relevant state that assists the poster.

What Dazz is getting at - and I agree with him - is the ridiculousness of how the law is heading, and people's mentality towards their rights and responsibilities etc in life, and how down the toilet it all is heading.

No-one wants to do anything, or be accountable or responsible for anything, lest they might scrape a knee when they fall over because there was a peddle on the front path, or break a fingernail on those sticky door handles the LL shoulda replaced...then who would they sue?

Sorta that kinda thing.

Yeah; we can say "but there are the laws, so let's just follow the procedures and send in the report to whoever needs to see it".

What's happening is we are 50% down a slippery slope of totally diminished responsibility in life as a whole.

I saw a lady lose her balance on the sloped concrete of the property next door's footpath one day...the bit where the vehicle cross-over is, and the concrete slopes down gradually to almost nothing so the cars can drive over the gutter.

It was all her own fault; not paying attention, and her very first reaction through tears was to scream out "why do they ( the Council) make such crappy footpaths!?" There was absolutely nothing wrong with the surface - other than it was not billiard table flat at that spot, but it had to be that way.

I saw the whole thing, and thought; "you have got to be kidding, love "..then went out to help her up.

Green tomato has two options; do it herself and get on with it, or find out from the PM what the sooky-la-la regs are these days (I'd wager the LL has to cough up) and follow the procedure.

Me; I just prefer to bloody get on with it and solve it myself for the sake of expediency and peace.

The sad thing is now that LL has to take steps to minimise an ongoing costly maintenance bill - if he/she can; clear all the offending tree branches on the property which are responsible for the leaves in the gutter, or hopefully con the neighbours into getting their tress trimmed (at his/her expense) - assuming the Council allows this to even be done...

Maybe he/she can just put up the rent? yeah, right.

Cleaning gutters, however, is a slightly different thing - it actually is a dangerous activity; my wife has to assist surgeons all the time who are fixing up the broken bodies of people who have either fallen off the roof or the ladder...some even die.

SO, as was said; either pay someone to do it, or talk to the PM and go from there.

 

[Peterw]

Well instead of moaning about it Pete, why don't we do something about retrieving it back from the toilet ??




Yes - lets.



It wasn't a broad brush statement. It was a short one line answer to a mind numbingly simple task.




What if a meteor hit them. What happens if they have a heart attack. What happens if a stray dog bites them. What happens if a sharp twig stabs them in the finger and draws blood. What if.....

You've been sucked into insurance lawyer heaven Pete. They'll throw a thousand more what ifs at ya, all of 'em designed to scare you witless.

Mate, wrap yourself in cotton wool and get fed through a straw - then you'll be safe from the big bad leaves in the gutter.




.....we were talking about the simple task of clearing leaves from a gutter....what are you on about ??

Way to go Dazz. For interest here is the link to the Qld position on gutters.

http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Renting/During-a-tenancy/Maintenance-and-repairs/Drains-and-gutters

I am sure Dr Google will work for you, to find out the position in your state.

I was of the view, that to give advice that complies with the law, might be more helpful than giving an opinion on the way you believe things should be.

Being conscious that we are in a litigious society, and taking sensible "risk minimisation steps" or being sucked into insurance lawyer heaven .... I suppose there is a line somewhere between the two.

Am I covered if I get hit by a meteor, not sure if I am, I will have to look that up. I do know that I am not covered for wetting my pants when I read dribble

Mmmmm…. getting bitten by a stray dog .... not sure who would be responsible for that. Not sure that I would want that to happen to anyone either .....

 

[Peterw]

Bayview, I agree with your sentiments. Just recently a child care centre instructed parents not to send their children in with food, for fear it would be shared with other children allergies etc.(I think that’s it went the best I recall it ). No doubt between us we could create "the longest thread" listing all this stuff, however that is the world as we now have it. I do from time to time, have a go at change, for example, our tenancy act is up for review, so I participate in a submission. Will it help, probably not, as the bureaucrat’s tend to have greater control over outcomes, then our elected officials do. I saw that having been on reasonable talking terns with a number of pollies over the years. Any way I fell that I have had a go. The next step would be to run for a seat, and then try to change from there

In relation to gutters, I would think every state, would have law on this, or at least an established precedence. One would like to think every PM, would know the law, and or the precedence. Whether we like it or not, that is the way it should then go.

I dont envy your wifes work. Yes sadly people fall off ladders and roof's an entertainer comes to mind.

 

[fisherman]

Where gutters are the tenant's responsibility there is nothing to say that he has to do it himself. In fact in some circumstances do it yourself is foolish. But fortunately cheap hired help is available, just check that they have insurance, as any responsible adult would do.

From whence did the belief and culture come from that any outgoing for leased residential property must by definition fall outside if the tenant's responsibility and by definition become that of the owner?

If you think about it, residential property now has more in common with motel or hotel accommodation, but there the inn keeper was traditionally responsible for many more things because of the transitory nature of the tenant, and innkeepers also had more powers to ensure orderly conduct and so on.

But even as we write, government agencies are considering and in some cases taking action to make the owner of residential housing responsible for the behaviour of tenants. Complaints about some tenants in short stay accommodation in popular areas are driving the change. It is populist policy, but there already are laws to control noise and bad behaviour.

It is counterproductive in many ways to pass more and more responsibility to owners, the first being that it has the inevitable result of blurring any difference between short an long stay tenants and both will act as, and be regarded as, short term itinerants.

What I did want to ask however is why some PMs go even further than regulators in treating all responsibilities and outgoings for long stay tenancies as the owners concern? Surely if a tenant cannot do anything that requires 'tools', 'specialised equipment' or involves some risk, they should not be operating garden equipment, right down to a common garden spade. Also, owners should not be supplying dangerous fittings like gas stoves, heaters and the like.

All human behaviour carries risk. However housing is leased to adults, who are supposed to be able to think, research, choose and be responsible for their acts. The problem arises where the implication is that the owner is his brother's keeper.

 

[chrispy]

I have the gutters cleared on all my properties regularly. I organise and pay for it. We have discussed this many times on this forum.

In the past the roof was swept, gutters cleared and all rubbish removed in plastic bags to the tip.

However, the service is now using a blower, which blows the leaves to the ground. They are then left where they fall. I am still being charged the same.

How I discovered this was that one of the tenants complained to the PM, who rang me to advise that I am responsible for having the leaves removed because... if a tenant fell on the paths because of the leaves, I would be liable, as I had allowed the gutters to be cleared leaving the gutter rubbish on the paths.

I will now be changing to someone who clears the gutters by the original method, of sweeping and removing all material.

Chris

 

[DaveM]

How I discovered this was that one of the tenants complained to the PM, who rang me to advise that I am responsible for having the leaves removed because... if a tenant fell on the paths because of the leaves, I would be liable, as I had allowed the gutters to be cleared leaving the gutter rubbish on the paths.

If the tenant slipped on the leaf that fell from a tree would you also be liable? There seems to be a big disconnect between liability and things that just happen outside of anyones control.

 

[chrispy]

Dave

No that is nature, accidental, when a leaf flutters to the ground.

By my hiring someone to blow the leaves down and leave them on the paths, I apparently, become responsible.

Chris

 

[BayView]

I have the gutters cleared on all my properties regularly. I organise and pay for it. We have discussed this many times on this forum.

In the past the roof was swept, gutters cleared and all rubbish removed in plastic bags to the tip.

However, the service is now using a blower, which blows the leaves to the ground. They are then left where they fall. I am still being charged the same.

How I discovered this was that one of the tenants complained to the PM, who rang me to advise that I am responsible for having the leaves removed because... if a tenant fell on the paths because of the leaves, I would be liable, as I had allowed the gutters to be cleared leaving the gutter rubbish on the paths.

I will now be changing to someone who clears the gutters by the original method, of sweeping and removing all material.

Chris

These are the sorts of events that will ultimately either drive LL's away from resi investing (I'm sure it already does), or you'll see increases in rents to cover the ridiculous never-ending volume and level of costs LL's will have to carry.

You can't be a sooky-la-la society without ramifications and consequences.