Well why comment in the first place? Tsk tsk.
Look at your post. There's no data included. It's just a personal attack without substance.
Care to provide some statistics to counter my statements about The NSW market?
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Poor first home buyers Sydney
- Thread starter Gockie
- Start date
Well why comment in the first place? Tsk tsk.
Look at your post. There's no data included. It's just a personal attack without substance.
Care to provide some statistics to counter my statements about The NSW market?
Not sure about that, they're all as bad as each other.
Good time to work in Transport, with the current govt, ahem, 'renting' out the power network try to fund all their promises.
Better to have something than nothing.
It's a current frenzy fueled by lowest interest rates of all time in Aus, and a shortage of land..maybe a State Gubb issue.
10 years ago the policies were the same, and Sydney was dead.
How do you arrive at the problem being current Gubb policy?
Didn't the NSW Gubb introduce a further 2.5% sting on CG tax for investors in the mid-2000's from memory? Wouldn't that have stopped a lot of them?
The NG deduction allowance has been around since before I started to buy property in 1985.
It was repealed for about 2 years by Keating/Hawk, then reinstated.
Ask yourself why was it reinstated....either;
1. they wanted to get re-elected and saw it was an unpopular move?
2. it was an unpopular move and they wanted to get re-elected?
3. rents went up and made PK and BH unpopular?
4. all of the above?
Someone else from this forum who was also around at the time might be able to shed some more light on that.
So, you have never said at any time that investors are pushing up the prices?
My mistake then. You would be the only person I've heard to date, to take the anti-NG stance, and not blame the investors for the price hikes.
The only emotion from me is mirth. I love it; havin' a great time with this topic.
I guess by definition it is to be too emotional as you say.
I like to argue with folks who are crying about how they see the investors and the Gubb as the stumbling block for their progress.
Not very sympathetic, I know, but I think you'll find most of us in the older brigade who have been through all this before will feel the same way.
Personally, right now; it has no bearing at all on me. I own one IP, and it is returning a pos gearing cashflow.
We used to have 5 IP's as I've said, and 3 of them were NG'd. But it was never an issue or cause for a sook-up for me.
Where's the personal attack?
Have you been called any names?
I have described your stance, is all....
Correct me on that if it is wrong. I am happy to know the real position if my interpretation is different.
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Nah; just chewing the fat with me old mate...giving him a bit more depth..I think he misunderstands me.
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They are in the best position to address the excessive levels of speculation. History has taught us that speculators/investors can't be trusted to regulate themselves and restrain from paying ridiculous prices for assets. In some markets that isn't really a problem (e.g. tech stocks bubble and crash, who cares, it's not going to have too large an impact on the economy), but when it's housing and a bubble/crash has the potential to decimate our banks, financial and economic system, then it's a problem for those who are in the best position to deal with it...
Government controls price of debt, lending regulations, where and what you can build where, immigration levels, foreign investment rules, fees to develop, taxation policies that push and pull demand... how are current prices not a result of government policy? It's a bit like putting a piece of cheese in a maze and adding a rat. When it eats the cheese do you blame the rat (who is just following his instincts) or do you blame whoever created the maze, added the cheese and put the rat in there?
Of course they are helping to push up prices (but not sole cause), they are a large part of the reason Sydney is bonkers at the moment, but I hold no animosity toward them for investing or speculating. But I wouldn't use the word "blame", they are just doing what irrational participants in any market do at times.
What relevance does this have to the discussion (& other similar comments)?
Do you think it would be a personal attack if I was to begin all my posts simply stating facts around your personal situation?
"BayView, had skin in the game, but it was a failure and he had to sell a bunch of properties, take that into account when considering his opinion or advice..."
It's simply unnecessary, opinions can be shared without trying to degrade those who disagree with you.
I could sell some other assets and buy 5 negatively geared properties tomorrow, but that doesn't make my opinion any more or less valid.
Just wondering about your story with IPs.
I got a lot out of the thread you had about the business you purchased and it
changed my mind about taking a risk to head down that path.
It sounds like you were on the right path with property investment and got a
good way down the track (no idea about asset value or LVR however). You
the properties, the knowledge and the mindset it seems but not sure what
happened next.
Your description above sounds like you decided to reap the rewards a bit too
soon (a few years in the states, an nice PPOR, passive income business) when
all that was needed was to keep doing what was working well for you.
I'm sure it is not that simple.
We definitely hit a point a few years ago where we were sick of the negative
geared properties and the crappy PPOR and were ready to sell the IPs to
upgrade our lifestyle a little. We had held them since getting out of shares a
little battered in the early stage of the GFC.
Fortunately we stumbled across granny flats and throught that Somersoft - those two things allowed us to committ to the property portfolio a little longer. Very happy that we did as the subsequent boom in Sydney has changed our financial outlook significantly.
JUst interest if you can see any "sliding door" moments like ours.
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Hobo, I have laid almost all my warts and all bare on this joint.
I am sure everyone here knows a fair bit about my personal situation - some of it will never be divulged of course, like my three First Division Tattslotto wins....
Just kidding.
I could care less what you say about me here, either in private or out here in the open, and I suggest you adopt the same mindset.
It's much more fun.
This is a public forum, we are all adults, discussing all sorts of topics - some which are touchy and others not.
Everyone here needs to get a thick skin, or get out.
If anything, folks here would rather know a bit about the folks who make bold statements, than those who sit on the sidelines and snipe away at everyone else without letting anyone know anything about themselves.
Why do they do that? It's pathetic.
If you think I have personally attacked you, then I am sorry.
I have announced your stance so as to get some credibility behind your posts.
Whether you think you have skin in the game or not; you are raving on about a current high profile topic, with next to no experience at it. You can't expect to not cop flack for that.
I have no gold bullion, so; imagine if I was to come over to your forum about gold etc, and start raving on about various doom and gloom associated with gold, but with no skin in the gold game.
I'd bet my house that all the die-hard bullion-ites would be soon asking: "So, what experience have you got on this topic, other than a bit of a list of graphs and stats?"
They would soon be telling me to get lost, and rightly so.
If you put forward well reasoned arguments, then I would consider your view on it's merits.
If you have a negative view on owning Gold or the future price of it then I wouldn't expect you to have any.
What does having owned a lot of investment properties or not have to do with first home buyer affordability (the topic of this thread)? The number of investment properties owned now or in the past contributes nothing to the value of someone's opinion on the matter.
No, we didn't reap the rewards too soon; it's a tale littered with variations of good and bad, which have forced us backwards in terms of properties and cashflows.
When we moved to the USA in 2005, for 3 years, by then had 5 IP's. It was for my wife to fulfill her desire to work O/S before kids in school.
We sold one before we left because we were uncertain about what was in store for us. It was the most neg cashflowed, and had not gone up much in value, so by the time the dust settled it was a non-winner financially overall.
I didn't work at all over there, so only one income (other than the IP rents), and we had bought our block of land before leaving, paid a $50k deposit out of our PPoR equity LOC, so we were squirreling a lot of that income back towards the block of land settlement requirements for when we returned to Aus.
After we returned, I had a low-paying golf job, the wife got some part-time hours in the old job again (1 child in Primary school), the land settlement came around, and we ended up having to sell another neg geared IP to get the settlement over the line.
We still owned our PPoR, which was still being rented out, and we were renting.
I then used some of the PPoR equity to buy the workshop - thinking it would be the ticket out of low-paying drudgery, more cashflow and a bit more freedom for the wife.
The wife had baby no.2, took a year off work and basically only my income from the workshop until she went back to work - she was working a few days casually.
Meanwhile, the tenants left our PPoR, we kept renting so it was vacant to go gangbusters on the reno to sell, with the plan to build the new PPoR on the new block - which we did. The reno took almost 9 months and $70k (doing it myself in spare time)...over a year all up until we recouped our funds from the settlement, so our cashflow was even more drained.
By the end of this time, the workshop was not making much money, and the unexpected baby no.3 had arrived.
The new PPoR was built on the assumption that the workshop would continue to make a profit, and at the time it seemed reasonable.. pretty stupid in hindsight..
Sold IP no.4 (last of the 3 neg geared ones - also the least neg geared) to cut back on outgoings, but copped a hefty CG bill....still recovering from that as well.
I had to cut my wage in half to keep the staff, and the wife went back to work.
Remaining IP - copped a Council order back in 2011, not allowing us to rent it until repairs were carried out (long story and was due to difficult tenant - the unit was more than satisfactory to be rented; I've lived in far worse)...remained vacant for 2 years due to no funds and cost of repair quote - $16k.
Eventually I had to go over there (Kalgoorlie) for 3 weeks and do all the repairs myself. Put the whole lot on our CC - $7.5k (money we did not have, and are still paying off on the CC).
The sales of the IP's created some CG, but when combined with periods of low income, no income, CG taxes, loan on the PPoR land, existing debts on the workshop etc, decline of workshop...
When we first arrived back from the USA, we were the most well-off we've ever been; PPoR, block of land, 4 IP's - over a $1mill in equity, but both with low-paying jobs and 2nd child on the way. Could not see a light at the end of the no money tunnel....asset rich, cash poor - and we wanted to build a new house on the land. That was not going to be much of a problem, as the PPOR no.4 sale would cover most of it, but we still had the land loan going.
Hence, the workshop purchase which has backfired and sent us a long way backwards, undoing all that we had achieved.
Unless we sell the current PPoR, then hopefully have enough left over to buy a modest clunker to do up, and basically start again.
At least the cashflow will be better (no debt at all, and still the wife's job, the IP rent, and my income from the workshop), we can plow ahead and start back into some serious investing and smash it..
No reaping of rewards so far, unfortunately.
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Why bother, because that's the choice or option present unless investing elsewhere and renting then...
I had lived south west for about 20 years, commuted yes by train for at least 1.5 hours each way. It was doable then so it is still doable now!
Aha!
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...even-higher-house-prices-20150615-gholmq.html
The Reserve Bank has warned of even higher home prices, saying stocks of unsold land suitable for development in Sydney and parts of other cities are getting "unusually low".
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...even-higher-house-prices-20150615-gholmq.html
The Reserve Bank has warned of even higher home prices, saying stocks of unsold land suitable for development in Sydney and parts of other cities are getting "unusually low".
That's the story to scare off the FHO and also newbie investor I guess.
A seasoned investors won't get affected by the media and know where to buy in any cycle of the market.
One has to wonder what the effects of abolishing negative gearing on existing housing and leaving it in place on new builds would have on the price of new properties?
Perhaps more a hinderance rather than assistance to FHBs,
That's the Reserve Bank not the media telling us we don't have enough supply in Sydney.
Buying H&L package in Sydney will always profitable for sure !
Hm.. if that's the case, then we can always buy in Sydney anytime of the year but.... it must be House and Land Package ?
No wonder newly opened place in below:
Northwest: The Ponds, Schofields, Marsden Park, Riverstone etc...
Southwest: Airds, Edmondsons Park, Jordan Springs, Oran Park, Ropes Crossings, etc...
is always snapped up by buyers in one day during the opening.
In some area like Airds, I heard that people actually camp on site jsut to be able to bid the House & Land Package, this is way much more expensive than iPhone or iPad release but yet people still buying.
That's the Reserve Bank not the media telling us we don't have enough supply in Sydney.
Hm.. if that's the case, then we can always buy in Sydney anytime of the year but.... it must be House and Land Package ?
No wonder newly opened place in below:
Northwest: The Ponds, Schofields, Marsden Park, Riverstone etc...
Southwest: Airds, Edmondsons Park, Jordan Springs, Oran Park, Ropes Crossings, etc...
is always snapped up by buyers in one day during the opening.
In some area like Airds, I heard that people actually camp on site jsut to be able to bid the House & Land Package, this is way much more expensive than iPhone or iPad release but yet people still buying.
This article on MB has some pretty solid reasoning on why it was easier to buy a home in the 1970s/80s:
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/06/boomers-have-no-idea-about-housing-affordability/
I put forward similar reasoning in an article I wrote last year:
http://www.bullionbaron.com/2014/09/why-serviceability-affordability.html
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/06/boomers-have-no-idea-about-housing-affordability/
I put forward similar reasoning in an article I wrote last year:
http://www.bullionbaron.com/2014/09/why-serviceability-affordability.html
And try buying off the plan. Even when it's expensive there's a long queue and you need to pay a nonrefundable $5k reservation fee just to have a look!
Thank you for sharing - I get a lot from your posts and background.
At the moment we have 5 IPs and a PPOR - have a good a good income but two sets of private school fees offset that.
We regularly consider upgrading the PPOR (knockdown re-build), going into business or taking some time off and travelling - but pretty much always been held back by fear of the unknown future.
The past few years have worked well for us by just keeping at the same old same old as the Sydney market did its stuff. I now have a greater sense that just holding on to what we have and working on the cashflow will get us to a reasonable place.
By reaping the reward early I was referring to your move to the US and the PPOR upgrade - the way it played out makes me feel like staying put for a bit longer.
