Private car park infringement

[CHAOS]

Opening the mail today I received a payment reminder for $88 for an alleged infringement that occurred in early November at a local shopping centre car park.

So I ring the number on the letter. I am met with a fully automated system with no option to speak to a person to even find out what the alleged infringement is.

1. No notice was stuck to my windscreen - so I had no knowledge of the offence - so the option to get a new copy does not apply
2. Because I did not receive the notice day on the day it was issued I can't check if I the ticket fell off the dash - and don't collect the tickets so can't prove I did buy one. - the option to prove I did pay doesn't apply
3. My 10 days is up as the letter is dated 14th Dec and today is the 28th. No option to discuss this issue with anyone to avoid them taking further action.

Annoyed I rang Consumer Affairs - because I thought it not right that I was not able to speak with someone about this notice they have issued me.

I was advised by them that regardless of the alleged infringement that I do not need to pay. It is a civil matter and they are seeking compensation for loss. (2hrs free parking) So it is different to a council parking fine or speeding fine etc. They have lots of these and when they get to VCAT they are thrown out.

I am concerned about this affecting my credit rating.

If I did not have a ticket (which I believe I did) - then I will pay
I can't check to see if I was in the wrong because they did not stick the ticket to my windscreen
The lady at consumer affairs said I can pay $38 and lodge a VCAT complaint myself - and have the issue quashed - cheaper than $88

Is this likely to affect my credit rating. Anyone else had this happen?

 

[Rolf Latham]

Opening the mail today I received a payment reminder for $88 for an alleged infringement that occurred in early November at a local shopping centre car park.

So I ring the number on the letter. I am met with a fully automated system with no option to speak to a person to even find out what the alleged infringement is.

1. No notice was stuck to my windscreen - so I had no knowledge of the offence - so the option to get a new copy does not apply
2. Because I did not receive the notice day on the day it was issued I can't check if I the ticket fell off the dash - and don't collect the tickets so can't prove I did buy one. - the option to prove I did pay doesn't apply
3. My 10 days is up as the letter is dated 14th Dec and today is the 28th. No option to discuss this issue with anyone to avoid them taking further action.

Annoyed I rang Consumer Affairs - because I thought it not right that I was not able to speak with someone about this notice they have issued me.

I was advised by them that regardless of the alleged infringement that I do not need to pay. It is a civil matter and they are seeking compensation for loss. (2hrs free parking) So it is different to a council parking fine or speeding fine etc. They have lots of these and when they get to VCAT they are thrown out.

I am concerned about this affecting my credit rating.

If I did not have a ticket (which I believe I did) - then I will pay
I can't check to see if I was in the wrong because they did not stick the ticket to my windscreen
The lady at consumer affairs said I can pay $38 and lodge a VCAT complaint myself - and have the issue quashed - cheaper than $88

Is this likely to affect my credit rating. Anyone else had this happen?

if the car park operator or their agent tries to collect and you dont want to pay for whatevere logical or sensibel reason, they may pass the debt onto a debt collector.

Its not unheard of for various organisations like that to hit your CRAA file with a default.

Im not sure,but I think they would need to get a judgement in court first these days............

If you are really concerned about it, get onto Veda Alert at around 50 bucks a year.

Itsa useful thing to have anyway for other reasons if you are an investor or a business person

www.mycreditfile.com.au

is one source

ta
rolf

 

[CHAOS]

Thanks Rolf

I have My Veda Alert - isn't it too late once it shows up on there?

That is why I tried to phone these guys when I opened the letter.

 

[DaveM]

Was it ACE Parking or ANCP? Its pretty common and generally gets thrown out if challenged

Here are some links...

http://consumeraction.org.au/fines-from-private-car-parks/

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/private-car-park-fine-notices-may-be-unlawful-20110305-1bive.html

 

[CHAOS]

thanks for the links Dave

the first one is basically what the lady I spoke to at consumer affairs said - interestingly the company has contacted Vic roads to get our personal details. The link also says that being sued for breach of contract is not something that goes on your credit file.

 

[westminster]

Watch out for scammers as well. Sending letters like that with payment slips for a neighbourhood shopping centre are a good way to get people's credit card details.

 

[Aaron_C]

Chaos - I would keep tabs on it if I were you. It is very difficult to enforce these type of 'penalties' because only the government can punish someone. Someone can register a default if there is a breach of contract. That is how banks/credit card providers/telcos register defaults - you didn't pay up as per the contract so they register it.

 

[Terry_w]

You can only get a judgment if the matter goes to court. If it does go to coirt then you would be notified and can then contest it. If you lost then you could possibly have a judgment on your record for 5 years. Not sure if they woukd have a chance of winning but on entering the csrpark you would have entered into a contract with them and have agreed to certain conditions. These woukd be put up on a sign somewhere in the car park. You could aruge u didnt see the conditions and that you did pay etc but have lost the ticket.

Might be easier and safer to pay. But this is what they rely on. If you dont pay they may not do anything.

 

[Dazz]

alleged infringement

What was the infringement ??

Don't play around - you were there and saw everything. Timings, notices on site stipulating conditions, everything.

Did you do something on their property that you agreed not to do when entering their property ??

Get rid of the word alleged - you don't need to go to court to find that out - you and the property owner already know what the answer is.

This seems like a typical wormy lawyer thing to do, seeing what is the least impact for you.

If you infringed on the rules of their property - you know what to do.

If you didn't infringe on the rules of their property - you also know what to do.

Asking questions about whether your credit rating will be affected only comes into play if you decide to worm your way through the process.

 

[CHAOS]

Hi Dazz

Yes I am aware of the rules in that car park. You park, get a ticket from the machine and display on dash and you have 2hrs free parking. If I breached the rules I would pay.

Apparently they adhere the fine to the windscreen - there was no fine on my windscreen.
If the fine was there I could have checked if forgot to get a ticket and display it or the ticket fell off the dash or I exceeded the time limit. I could see what they fined me for and see if it is justified.

If in the wrong I cop it and pay up. If I did have a ticket then I can't prove it because it was 6 weeks ago and I don't keep all my tickets.

We had this happen a few years back when we visited the Melbourne Zoo - we returned with a fine on the windscreen - we did pay, had the ticket and posted them a copy - something we were able to do because we actually received the infringement notice.

It also doesn't address that they don't have someone you can actually speak to to discuss/ sort the situation.

$88 may be small change to some. It is 4 hours work or 4 boxes of nappies for my children, or an extra mortgage repayment.

 

[CHAOS]

What was the infringement ??


Asking questions about whether your credit rating will be affected only comes into play if you decide to worm your way through the process.

Dazz
I asked this because I have just received the letter on 28/12. It is dated as 14/12. It says I have 10 days before they take further action. It has ben 10 days and I don't want this to go on my credit record. I want to sort it out. I tried to ring them and can't speak to anyone. By the time my letter gets to them it will be even longer.

And yes - all could be sorted too if I just hand over $88.
Do you pay everything demanded of you without checking?

 

[Dazz]

Hi Dazz

Yes I am aware of the rules in that car park.

If I breached the rules I would pay.

If in the wrong I cop it and pay up.

Mate....you're still using wormy language. You were there, you were involved and saw everything....you lived it.

Why do you insist on prefacing everything with the word "if".

You didn't answer my simple question - what was the infringement - and did you do it ??

I could see what they fined me for and see if it is justified.

Sorry, I thought you were on their property and only entered their property after agreeing to play by the Owners rules. Whether you think the fine is "justified" or not doesn't come into it. You have no power of determination on their property.

yes - all could be sorted too if I just hand over $88

OK, we're not talking small potatoes, we're talking miniscule potatoes.

If you wish to potentially threaten your credit rating for 5 years over this, knock yourself out - your choice.

Do you pay everything demanded of you without checking?

You don't want to know what I would do in this situation....I own more than a few carpark spaces and come across wormy complaints like this almost every day.

It sounds like you can't even remember whether you bought a ticket or not, and aren't aware of the property rules. It smells like you tried to get away it, like the majority of folks do, got sprung, and now are pleading 3 levels of blissful ignorance, like the majority of folks do when sprung.

I see this almost every day. It's very unbecoming.

BTW - the owner of the carpark hasn't got the time nor the money to post a real person there just to listen to your complaints / justification. Labour costs in Australia prohibit it. Most customers when sprung just end up screaming, swearing, chucking a 3 y.o. hissy fit and then getting physical. They honestly couldn't be bothered with the petty excuses that are thrown up, they've heard 'em all before and then some.

 

[Ausprop]

You can only get a judgment if the matter goes to court. If it does go to coirt then you would be notified and can then contest it. If you lost then you could possibly have a judgment on your record for 5 years. Not sure if they woukd have a chance of winning but on entering the csrpark you would have entered into a contract with them and have agreed to certain conditions. These woukd be put up on a sign somewhere in the car park. You could aruge u didnt see the conditions and that you did pay etc but have lost the ticket.

Might be easier and safer to pay. But this is what they rely on. If you dont pay they may not do anything.

you only have to have an action initiated in the courts for it to appear on your credit record - doesn't matter how fanciful the claim may be. if you don't like someone just raise any old rubbish accusation and their credit record is stuffed. you can make good money just by raising $500 claims against people - they wont want their credit record affected so will probably just pay it. I am not sure if claims that don't get judgement but are paid go away - in which case it may not work? the credit record process in this country is ridiculous... you have to bend over for any crazy claims if you want to keep your record clear

 

[Ausprop]

on this specific subject, I saw a segment on switzer on it... not sure what they said now, think they said it was a scam and you should challenge it - subject to my previous post in so far as it will probably affect your credit record. Perhaps look on the switzer website and it may still be there

 

[datto]

Someone posted that the tribunal will throw it out - so be it.

But I concur with CHAOS because sometimes these fines, be it, private, council or police, are totally fabricated. Sometimes there is sweet FA you can do except pay.

I, personally have been the victim of a council imposed parking fine that was totally fabricated. This particular parking inspector just took number plates down and issued fines through the post (actually, all I got was the final notice).

I felt like going to the council and creating alot of noise but I thought better of it.

Not long after that, I noticed parking inspectors taking photos of infringing cars as evidence. I bet someone did create a fracas at the council over these unjustified "fines".

We are at the mercy of the "fine" givers!

 

[CHAOS]

You didn't answer my simple question - what was the infringement - and did you do it ??

I can't answer the question Dazz because the letter I received does not state what the infringement is.

The letter states "Your vehicle rego number ****** was issued a payment notice numbered ****** when parked at **** car park on **** at ****pm. Is was issued because your vehicle was parked in breach of contract.

Did I do it? I can't answer this because they have not told me what the offence is.

When a policeman pulls you over and says you were speeding you have a right to look at their laser. If you are fined by camera you can access a photo to prove you did it.

If this carpark is seeking damages I have a right to know what for. And if I believe they are incorrect I have a right to ask them to look into it.

 

[Terry_w]

I can't answer the question Dazz because the letter I received does not state what the infringement is.

The letter states "Your vehicle rego number ****** was issued a payment notice numbered ****** when parked at **** car park on **** at ****pm. Is was issued because your vehicle was parked in breach of contract.

Did I do it? I can't answer this because they have not told me what the offence is.

When a policeman pulls you over and says you were speeding you have a right to look at their laser. If you are fined by camera you can access a photo to prove you did it.

If this carpark is seeking damages I have a right to know what for. And if I believe they are incorrect I have a right to ask them to look into it.

Breach of contract

 

[hobo-jo]

your vehicle was parked in breach of contract

Write to them asking for a copy of the contract (and specifics of the infringement) within 14 days or you will consider their claim null and void

 

[Risky Business]

You don't want to know what I would do in this situation....I own more than a few carpark spaces and come across wormy complaints like this almost every day.

Ha ha. I was going to suggest that maybe it was one of Dazz's. I'm curious as to the outcome. $88 is a funny amount. I wonder how that is calculated. I wonder if it is a percentage of a VIC penalty unit.

When a policeman pulls you over and says you were speeding you have a right to look at their laser. In QLD, not a right, just a courtesy and argument preventer.

Although sympathetic to your cause CHAOS, I'm with Dazz, you either know that you pay everytime or you don't pay every time.

 

[cu@thetop]

Although sympathetic to your cause CHAOS, I'm with Dazz, you either know that you pay everytime or you don't pay every time.

Just to clear up one thing though- if I trip and fall in the carpark due to their failure to properly upkeep the surface in a badly lit area- they will compensate me? After all this parking seems a tidy little earner