Property Manager not overly proactive in chasing rent

So, I've been with my PM since August last year. They are on their third and final "chance" in my books.

The rent is due on the 17th of each month. I'm told it may take a week for the agent to process/clear the rent before I receive it. Which puts us at around the 25th of each month.

Each month the rent has been coming in later and later, with last month arriving on the 4th of the following month!

Last months rent was a week late before the PM chased the tenant about it. I didn't even get an update until I realised it was a day or so late in entering my account - and even then I had to ring the PM about it.

I've since set an expectation that I'm to be informed immediately of any issues, however yesterday I received an email from the tenant, forwarded to me by the PM that stated he had changed jobs, now was being paid fortnightly and the rent for this month would be a week late.

I sent an email asking the agent asking why the rent is getting paid later and later each month and what their recommendations are around managing this tenant and preventing a habitual late payer from becoming even worse.. and this is what I received:

"The tenant does pay on different dates every month his rental dates of payment up to date have been - 8, 20, 19, 24, 25, 4 – Rent is due on the 17th of every month and it does take 3 days for the rent to arrive to us.
In regards to the rent being paid all over the place we legally can’t do anything about this unless it is late by over 15 days (meaning nothing has arrived in our account) we can then issue them with a notice to vacate this doesn’t mean they vacate it then means we can apply to tribunal however the likeliness of the tenant being kicked out of the house is very slim it would have to be several times he has been over 15 days late for the member to look at it favourably.

Because your tenant has only really once been very late on rent we can’t do anything. And considering other than the odd dates of paying he is a great tenant. Some landlords have horrid tenants who never pay rent until the 15th day, always request maintenance, and don’t even keep the property looked after. I understand you have a mortgage to pay my only suggestion would be if you were able to change the date your mortgage comes out to make sure the rent is paid well and truly by this date."

It seems as though the PM is quite happy to not do anything about it - I would have thought a phone call on the 20th (giving 3 days for the rent to clear) would be a somewhat prudent approach in perhaps "reminding" the tenant their rent is due.

As this is my first IP, i'm not quite sure what to expect from the PM here and what is reasonable/unreasonable etc. Do I need to further lay out my expectations with this PM around what I want her to do ? Surely I wouldn't have to do this...
 
Here in Qld tenants can be 7 days late before they get a notice to remedy breach and they then have another 7 days to pay up. If they end up 14 days behind they can then be issued with a notice to vacate but like your situation that doesn't necessarily mean they will.

We have tenants who fell behind and then lagged behind for 12 months always paying just before the seven days to avoid the breach notice. Lately they have caught up and for the last few months have actually been paying in advance.

I suspect they might have been thinking of moving on and might even have applied elsewhere but their tenant ledger went against them. It would show only a couple of breaches but a constant lateness to the payments. I know our RE hands over their tenant ledgers if they are asked for them as a reference because they say so on their website. I get a lot of information on the RE website about how they handle their rentals by just popping in to have a look at the information they provide for prospective tenants.

We don't get too bent out of shape over a few days personally but if it is a problem for you, meeting mortgage payments etc. it might be worthwhile mentioning the tenant ledger to your PM and asking her to mention to the tenants that it doesn't do them any favours to be constantly late even if they are only a few days.

What a cheek she has to suggest you should change the date of your mortgage to suit the tenants. Can you even do that? It would no doubt solve your problem now, but what of the next tenants? Would she expect you to change it again to suit them?
 
Chill out. If you are freaked out by very minor things like this, then you are in for a very bumpy ride, and the pm will probably be glad to see the back of you, given your demands. Don't sweat on the little stuff, and it will be much more ejoyable. Nobody's perfect.:)
 
I'll cut to the chase. Your tenant will know that nothing can happen legally up until 14days late. The PM can insist, cajole, push and do the hocky pokey but if the tenant knows his rights, then there's not much you, your current PM or the best PM in the world can do.

I suspect the communication and language of PM could have been tighter and that doesn't help your anxiety.

As for the mortgage, you may need to increase your cash buffer to take into account these payment delays.

Welcome to the world of resi investment. :)
 
As for the mortgage, you may need to increase your cash buffer to take into account these payment delays.

Welcome to the world of resi investment. :)

I'd increase it substantially if you can. Things happen all the time that can impact on it so it is essential that you are prepared. Not only are there the hiccups in payments comming through, you also have to be prepared for expensive maintanance issues at the worst possible time.
 
I would ask the PM to remind the tenant that the rent is due on the 17th of each month and that it they are going to be unable to meet the due date that a phone call to the PM will go along way at ensuring the relationship continues to be positive.

This way, you're handling the tenant gently, and putting the onus on them to fess up every month. They'll soon start to want to pay by the due date so they don't have to make that phone call.

I would then tell the PM that if they are more than 2 days late, they need to phone the tenant and ask why. They might not be able to "legally do anything" but they can pick up the phone.
 
I agree that you can't sweat the small stuff too much on things like this. And keeping some harmony with your PM will also make life easier for you in the long run.

Can the PM help the tenants to organise a direct debit from their account each month? That way you would have some certainty around the date of payment.
 
It's hard finding a good property manager, but when you find one their service is great.

Find a new pm that will do a great job, the new pm can take care of changeover and all paperwork.
 
I agree you shouldn't sweat the small stuff - HOWEVER, you should find out what the PMs policy is for rental payments and how they chase them up.

The PM should be checking their arears daily (or every second to third day depending on how many properties they manage). Personally I give the the tenant a reminder call on day one. Obviously I'm not harsh, just hey how you doing by the way your rent is a day late, what's happening? Usually they will have paid by bpay in which case I say just remember it takes a few days to clear etc.

On the 7th day we issue a final notice, on the 15th (as it's 14 full business days before I can) I issue the 14 day NTV. You don't actually have to go to VCAT (in Vic) to evict the tenant on arears as they can choose to leave willingly from this notice, although most will put up a fight which means you'll find yourself in court and one that normally favours the tenants at that.
 
thanks for all the responses guys. lil skater - thats the level of service that i would have expected. If i was managing the property - thats what i'd be doing, and as a tenant myself, I make sure my rent is paid on time.

What I don't understand is, there is supposed to be a direct debit set up already...

I'm not really stressing about being paid late - now i know what to expect.

I am not overly impressed by my PM's level of pro-activeness and I guess she is just a **** PM at the end of the day.

Anybody know of a good, pro-active PM that covers the Oak Park/Pascoe Vale etc area ?
 
Can't really help with recommending a good PM but am wondering who the PM is as we are also dealing with a PM in that area who doesn't seem to be cutting it. Interesting you mention the level of proactiveness. Maybe its the same one:eek:

I have heard some positive things being said about The Professionals in that area (Oak Park/Glenroy). I haven't looked into it myself yet so I can't add much.

I understand where you're coming from regarding the payments. Its definitely easier to manage when the payment dates are consistent. I don't want to sound too biased against PMs here but I think the payment issue could have been solved easily if they could just make it clear from the start so that you have more realistic expectations. As you said 'now I know what to expect'.

Actually a lot of my PM related problems could be solved this way. I guess I'm guilty of not asking enough questions up front and making too many assumptions. Oh well, I'm still learning too.
 
Can't really help with recommending a good PM but am wondering who the PM is as we are also dealing with a PM in that area who doesn't seem to be cutting it. Interesting you mention the level of proactiveness. Maybe its the same one:eek:

Check your PMs
 
Ok guys,

So he paid the rent - on the 4th Mar. It was due on the 17th of Feb.

I had my PM follow him up just before the 17th of Mar to make sure he would be on time, he replied with "I've just changed jobs, paid fortnightly now, need to make adjustments, will be a week late".

I am building up a buffer, and can typically just cover the difference with what I get paid anyway so no big deal. He paid about a week later.

Now, I followed up my PM again around the 15th of Apr to again give him a gentle nudge to be on time for the 17th. This is how it went, and how it has gone down since:

15th (PM):

Hello,

I have just sent him a friendly reminder saying it’s due tomorrow.

Thank you

27th (Me):

How did you go with below ? Have you received the payment yet ?

27th (PM):

"Hello,
I just spoke with him as we have not yet received it he advised me he has been in Brisbane his dad suffered a heart attack and he has just lost his job.
He did advise me he will most likely have funds together by the 5th which is next week I told him to tell me if this date changes and reiterated again its unacceptable to notify me this late and he said he replied to the message I sent him and I told him that it was an automated message meaning you cannot reply as the reply goes to nowhere he needs to email me in future.
I guess there’s not much more to be done unfortunately. I will follow it up again on the 5th if I have not seen payment from him on this date I will call again and all we can really do is send him notice to vacate which still needs to go through VCAT in order for him to be kicked out. This is very costly to attend VCAT aswell for a landlord so we do try to avoid it like the plague. I will chase him again as he has now given me a date when it should be paid.

I’ll keep you informed. The only other thing I can suggest for you to do would be to change your mortgage date so it doesn’t depend on the rent to be paid on the due date. (I know this may inconvenience you) but it is in your best interest this way gives plenty of time for rent to be paid and cleared and the banks aren’t charging you to take money when there is none in the account. Hope this helps.

Hope you had a lovely Easter break also!"

---
So this email made me a little angry because:

1. Running sentences give me a headache.
2. Again, I find a request to change my mortgage date a little offensive..
3. No real proposal of a way forward (except to change my loan due date) i mean, she is the experienced property manager here.
4. The rent was 10 days overdue before I heard about it, and I had to initiate contact to get any response... again, lack of pro-activeness
5. No solution for the small problem of "tenant doesn't have a job anymore, how is he going to pay the rent?"

I wasn't happy with this response so I spoke to the senior PM at this office (and if anybody is looking for a PM in oak park/glenroy PM me and i'll give you the details of this one to avoid). She assured me that all of their PMs get a bonus for having a certain number of properties rent collected on time, so they are "all over" late paying tenants. Actions speak louder than words, but more importantly, she suggested one option, if i wanted to avoid the arduous VCAT/Eviction path, would be to offer the tenant the option to break the lease without penalty. She also said she'd put a special note on my file to note that I need to be kept up to date about late payments etc.

I don't know if I want a "special note on my file" saying i'm a ballbreaker of a landlord. I would have thought reporting by exception, ie "the tenant isn't paying his rent" would be a pretty standard thing to expect from someone you are paying to manage a rental.

Anyway - after speaking to my solicitor, VCAT, Terri Scheer, and others, it is clear that:

1. the tenant is a no-go. Given the habitual late payment, he was already a no-go for lease renewal in September, however given he either likes making up sob stories every month OR he can't in fact keep down a job, i need to get him out.

2. He most likely won't pay on the 5th. He will also be late for his next payment, etc.

3. Insurance will cover me for up to 15 weeks of lost rent due to defaulting tenants, once he is out of the place. So worst case scenario, is he doesn't pay anymore money from now until end of lease or till he gets evicted, and I should be able to claim back most of the money. (lease ends in september)

4. I can offer him an out on the lease contract now with no penalty, however I will then have to endure having the place empty whilst I find a new tenant. Which may be the case anyway.

So I can't really decide what is the better option, money wise. A risk of going down the VCAT path, getting screwed around for a few months and many extensions/payment plans etc, or just attempting to get rid of the tenant now by offering a concession to him on early lease termination, and starting again...

I think it's probably also time to look for another PM. I said it was her last chance when I started this thread.. ;)
 
Your PM is wrong yet again, you don't *have* to go to VCAT if you issue a 14 day NTV as some tenants just leave - this isn't often though.

Check your authority - it might be as little as $100 or so to go to VCAT anyway. Also, if your PM is that useless, if you do end up going to VCAT ask if you can preview their summary of proofs to be presented at VCAT, so you can double check that they have all the proof of the arrears. I'd suggest not changing PMs before VCAT, as some agents have a habit of "forgetting" crucial paperwork.

Oh, and change PMs as soon as possible. But I guess you already knew that. :p
 
I feel your pain re PMs. Not sure if it is incompetence, arrogance or taking on too many properties or a combination of things. I have no doubt it would be a difficult and stressful job at times (as with any job) dealing with both troublesome tenants and landlords amongst the good ones.

Having said that I guess we just expect a basic level of service at the very least. I recently had a PM that took 3 weeks to upload photographs of a property for rent as it was too "dirty" to take photos. The previous owner had paid for cleaning on vacating but it was not done or followed up.

They also claimed to have advertised the property on re.com.au; however, I could not find the ad despite it being on domain and their website.

They offered a months free management fees but have not followed through as they took their fees out already.

3 strikes you're out rule I guess.
 
Lil Skater Question #1

She assured me that all of their PMs get a bonus for having a certain number of properties rent collected on time, so they are "all over" late paying tenants.

This is the first time I have heard of this.

Question for Lil' Skater, if you are willing to share, is part of you remuneration calculated like this? Have you heard of PM's being remunerated in this way?
 
Lil Skater Question 2

Given the tenants have a lease until September, are you able to send a notice to vacate for no reason (120 days notice), in May so it coincides with the end of the lease? Or, does this have to be sent after the end of the lease?
 
Admittedly your PM doesn't sound like the most professional of property managers, but I daresay your biggest problem is the tenant!! And as a LL of many PIs can tell you from experience, when this sort of stuff occurs, it's usually a good idea to do some housekeeping!!! Either switching PMs, evicting tenants or both!!!

The other biggie as far as I see it, is you've cut things very fine to the bone. If you're hanging out so intently on rent coming in on a certain day, you need to review your financial structures to give yourself a bit more wriggle room; not just to make the payment per se, but to keep yourself sane!!! :eek:

Notice to Vacate form (120 days without a specific reason) but this cannot be served prior to end of fixed tenancy agreement unfortunately. :(
 

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