Purchasing in VIC - Frankston Area

Hi Toni:

I know I should be buying a house with land, but I wanted to buy in the premium part of Frankston (for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post) and the house is too expensive for me (400k+). I also realise that the holding cost of Frankston South is very high, with gross yield less than 4%. So I compromised with a unit. Frankston is still long way from full capital growth so naturally houses will go up first before units gradually catch up. The other reason why units won't do as well right now is because the amount of development that's being released to the market. I expect the new residential development activities to decrease if interest rate goes up by another 0.5%, and that will help the price of unit/townhouse to go up.

edit: When I said Frankston South, I was really referring to areas between Cliff Rd, Warringa Rd, Yule St and Daveys St

Thanks feihong, I am not all that familiar with units/townhouses in this area, but will investigate this a little further. I think you're right there is alot of unit development here at the moment and this could impact the price growth on this type of investment.

You can still get a prop in Frankston South for around $350,000 - $370,000. Obviously a basic 3 bdrm home in the Frankston High School zone, but still a great investment. I personally would prefer that to a unit because of the land componant. Having said that, the area that you are referring to is a little more upmarket and I would imagine any investment in that area will do well.

I will look into this a little more.

Toni
 
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thanks, Toni.

Toni I look forward to helping you. It annoys me when agents do this and get away with it.



Hi Toni,

thanks for your support and kind offer, much appreciated.
 
Hi FeiHong,

buying a property within a good school zone is a plus, when the market is down....those property at school zone is maintained. There is always a demand to get into good school. FSH still has potential to provide better result, (may be in 10 years time this school will be listed top 5 public school in Vic)we just need a few smarts students to boost up the reputation then the demand will come naturally and the property price will go up.

I have a property at WA's top public High school zone and till today, the price is still maintain (in view of Perth current market). We paid premium for this house, the house next street which is not in the school zone is about 50K cheaper during that time when we did the purchase. We have no regret to pay for this extra premium.

This is one of the reasons why,i bought that IP. your unit is much nearer to beach. You have the both of 2 world. Good school and water.

Let's hope the rental yield is getting better each year while waiting for CG.

cheers,
 
Hi FeiHong,

buying a property within a good school zone is a plus, when the market is down....those property at school zone is maintained. There is always a demand to get into good school. FSH still has potential to provide better result, (may be in 10 years time this school will be listed top 5 public school in Vic)we just need a few smarts students to boost up the reputation then the demand will come naturally and the property price will go up.

I have a property at WA's top public High school zone and till today, the price is still maintain (in view of Perth current market). We paid premium for this house, the house next street which is not in the school zone is about 50K cheaper during that time when we did the purchase. We have no regret to pay for this extra premium.

This is one of the reasons why,i bought that IP. your unit is much nearer to beach. You have the both of 2 world. Good school and water.

Let's hope the rental yield is getting better each year while waiting for CG.

cheers,

Ming,

I cannot agree with you more regarding the school, and I believe we are on the same wavelength here. When I was looking for my first property I kept thinking, "where's the first entry point for immigrants?" In Melbourne, Eastern suburbs have always been popular with Asian immigrants due to the existing community, infrastructure and schools. Out of the top 3 state schools (barring Melbourne High and McRobertson Girls High) only Glen Waverley is still purchasable for me. Unfortunately Glen Waverley Secondary College zoned properties are still too expensive for me, so I had to settle for the second best school in Glen Waverley, which is still one of the top 30 state schools in Victoria. Like you, I also see these areas holding up well even if general market doesn't. Thus, when I bought my IP in Frankston, FHSZ was the most important aspect for me, followed by shops and beaches. When I said I'm speculating about the impact of Eastlink on Frankston, I see this as one of the big factors for attracting cashed up investors from North East and Eastern Melbourne buying in this particular area of Frankston.
 
Ming,

In this letter you have shown me, the writer states, and I quote; "I am an Area Manager for Frankston South and I don't know a single townhouse that has sold here in the last 6 months for $450K. But I do know many that are struggling to sell at the price, have been on the market for many months and will eventually sell for about $380K-390K. that's despite the fact that these properties are brand new.

I did a quick search on Domain.com.au and found two properters that have sold as follows:-

December 07 - Unit 17a Norman Ave - 3bdrm, 2 bthrm - $530,000
December 07 - Unit 32a Warringa Rd. 3bdrm, 2bthrm - $395,000

These are only some of November and December Sales as they don't seem to show more than that on the site I looked at.

This is in a 5 sec search and I am not even a REA. I will do more searching tomorrow.

Toni
 
Frankston High School zone

Ming,

I cannot agree with you more regarding the school, and I believe we are on the same wavelength here. When I was looking for my first property I kept thinking, "where's the first entry point for immigrants?" In Melbourne, Eastern suburbs have always been popular with Asian immigrants due to the existing community, infrastructure and schools. Out of the top 3 state schools (barring Melbourne High and McRobertson Girls High) only Glen Waverley is still purchasable for me. Unfortunately Glen Waverley Secondary College zoned properties are still too expensive for me, so I had to settle for the second best school in Glen Waverley, which is still one of the top 30 state schools in Victoria. Like you, I also see these areas holding up well even if general market doesn't. Thus, when I bought my IP in Frankston, FHSZ was the most important aspect for me, followed by shops and beaches. .


Thanks Feihong, Mingling and Toni (from much earlier feedback) for your thoughts on the significance of FHS zone. It gives me greater confidence to stick to these areas when house hunting for IPs.

Thanks to Harris also for your informative updates.
 
Mingling,

Following up on the two properties you own and the concerns you had, I contacted the largest realestate company in our area and rec'd the following response for your information;

From: Chris Melbourne @ MPRE HARCOURTS (Frankston) ([email protected])
You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe
Sent: Friday, 21 December 2007 1:10:00 AM
To:

Security scan upon download
image001.jpg (56.3 KB)
Hi Toni,



"Firstly, thank you for the opportunity to view the above named properties. I have taken the time to research each property and take a good look from the outside of the properties. Please note that because I am unable to view inside the homes, it may be harder to depict a more precise figure.



Property 1 (privacy reasons), Frankston South

- Three Bedrooms

- Two Bathrooms

- Polished Floorboards

- 527sqm Block

- Outdoor Entertaining Area with Pergola

- Frankston High School Zone

(Prop 1) Street in itself is a very desirable location and, while the block has been subdivided, it still sits on a great parcel of land. The property itself holds great potential for renovators or young families, and will expect to see some strong growth in the coming years. If placed into the current market, it should achieve a successful sales result between $380,000 and $410,000.



Property 2 (privacy reasons), Frankston North

- Three Bedrooms

- One Bathroom

- Double Garage

- Two Sheds

- Air Conditioning

- Gas Heating

- BIR’s to all bedrooms

The location of this property, at a busy intersection, is not very desirable as far as a home is concerned, and of course this will affect the sale price. However, this has always affected the sale price of this location and will continue to do so in the future. The growth in this area is moving upward at a strong rate, and is expected to continue as renovators and developers enter the Frankston North/ Pines Forest area. If placed into the current market for sale, you could expect a successful sale price between $205,000 and $225,000.



A little about Frankston and MPRE Harcourts



As the market leader in Frankston and Frankston South, we endeavour to know all there is to know about Frankston real estate in the past, present and future. It has helped us to achieve the position we strongly hold today.



With the infrastructure announced by Frankston City Council, the State Government, and individual corporations, that is expected to arrive in town before the decade is out, it is no wonder Frankston and Frankston South have been noted by the media and the Real Estate Institute of Victoria as one of the most positive suburbs in 2007 as far as prices are concerned.



Such infrastructure includes the redevelopment of Kananook Creek, the foreshore, the transit interchange, the Peninsula Centre, the 42 kilometre Eastlink freeway project and the promise of yet another freeway (the Frankston Bypass), the marina at the foot of Olivers Hill, and new Transit City controls to adjust the height restrictions of buildings within the CBD.



Geographically, Frankston should be seen as one of the most desirable positions in Victoria. Under an hour to Melbourne (even shorter travel times with Eastlink approaching completion), the largest shopping complex on the Mornington Peninsula, close proximity to the most beautiful beach on Port Phillip bay, easy travelling time to the gorgeous wineries of the Peninsula and other holiday destinations such as Phillip Island, the Dandenong Ranges and South Gippsland… the list goes on.



My advice? Buy property in Frankston before the completion and opening of the Eastlink project. History goes to show that a freeway entering or driving through a suburb dramatically increases the median price. For proof, look at such towns as Ringwood, Box Hill and Mitcham. The Eastern Freeway drove prices higher than most expected. More recently Keysborough and Seaford has risen dramatically as a result of the development of Eastlink.



With the Frankston Bypass expected to begin very soon, prices should rise again. Two freeways are being built for better access to the one town – and the previously mentioned infrastructure still to come.



At MPRE Harcourts our three Frankston offices are very excited about the coming growth, which we began to experience at the beginning of 2007. Buyers and investors are fast realising the amazing potential and lifestyle that Frankston has to offer."


I have copied this exactly from my email file, but have deleted address's for privacy reasons. Hope this answers all your questions.

I have bought and sold most of my properties though them and trust their opinion.

Merry Christmas.

Toni
 
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Toni and others,

When is Eastlink expected to open? The websites say November, but could be earlier, any more ideas when?

Thanks.
 
Toni and others,

When is Eastlink expected to open? The websites say November, but could be earlier, any more ideas when?

Thanks.


I just rang Frankston City Council and they were under the impression, which I was to, that it was due to be completed June 08. The telephonist suggested I ring SEITA - 8562 6800 to confirm, but office is not open until 2/1/08

Toni
 
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I went to SEITA office the other day, it's just behind my house (Brandon Park Biz Park). They couldn't tell me when they'll finish though.
 
thanks for going extra mile to help me.

Hi Toni,

thank you very much indeed for going extra mile to help me and I really appreciate it.

Property 1 - current appraisal is $380,000 and $410,000.
Property 2 - current appraisal is $205,000 and $225,000

We bought them at Min Range of above range in May 2007.
It has confirmed that those properties that I bought over internet is not a good deal and I have bought it inflated price.

lesson learned from these purchases (from internet) and we treat it as tuition fee for playing this game.

In future ie for my next purchase, I will seek 2nd opinion from you guy if you don't mind.

thanks again Toni for your time and effort.

cheers,
Ming
 
Hi Ming,

I wouldn't offer to help usually, mainly because I don't want to set my self up with too much work (I am allergic), but because you are so far away, I would be happy to help.

I would imagine it would be a very difficult task to purchase a property on the net and your ability to negotiate would be greatly reduced.

As information from our local newspaper or otherwise comes to hand, I will post them on this forum, so as to keep everyone informed. If you keep reading these, along with Harris's updates and others, you should know as much, or more than the locals and be on the same wave length of those real estate agents.

If there is anything at all to worry about, you will read it first here. Don't get swayed by what the agents tell you, they will tell you anything to list a property and because you live so far away, you a very easy target. Frankston is doing and will continue to do, exceptionally well, unless of course the world blows up, or something drastic like that. Hold on and enjoy the ride.

Looking forward to a very bright 2008. :D


Toni
 
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Property 1 (privacy reasons), Frankston South

- Three Bedrooms

- Two Bathrooms

- Polished Floorboards

- 527sqm Block

- Outdoor Entertaining Area with Pergola

- Frankston High School Zone

(Prop 1) Street in itself is a very desirable location and, while the block has been subdivided, it still sits on a great parcel of land. The property itself holds great potential for renovators or young families, and will expect to see some strong growth in the coming years. If placed into the current market, it should achieve a successful sales result between $380,000 and $410,000.

I believe Mingling's prop is sitting on 258 sqm not 527 sqm and sold for $376,400 on 24 May, (not sure why mpre agent got the land area wrong).

It was an inflated price to pay considering the land content and the fact that brand new prop could be purchased for close to that amount in April/ May around that area.

The market in that part of Frankston has moved about 15% since that time, however I would have paid no more than $330k for that prop in May. It means that whilst the area has moved, mingling's prop has absorbed the increase and adjusted it with the current market without showing any added equity.


Property 2 (privacy reasons), Frankston North

- Three Bedrooms

- One Bathroom

- Double Garage

- Two Sheds

- Air Conditioning

- Gas Heating

- BIR’s to all bedrooms

If placed into the current market for sale, you could expect a successful sale price between $205,000 and $225,000.

Same with Ballarto Rd - The price paid and the block / house size is quite good and looks like a good buy however without inspecting the prop, the fact that it sits on a main rd opposite a busy intersection is what makes it less desirable and not a great buy. It would get atleast 15% more if it was situated in one of the streets running off that main rd.

Property investing is a long term proposition and when purchased unseen and without sufficient due dilligence with a view to offloading it in a few months for a profit becomes a very risky speculation. Buyers' agents though costly are worth every cent if the other alternative is to buy remotely without sufficient research.

Harris
 
Hi Harris,

Property 1 's land size is 527 Sqm. It is very confusing as the land is divided. It is considered of 2 divided portion total to 527 Sqm. It is reflected as 1 piece in RP data but there are 2 pieces on the land title. Currently,the house is sitting on these 2 divided land.

Property 2, I was told by agent :
- There is another smaller lane beside the main road. The noise is ok.
- There are lots of nice/expensive properties along the big main road, compare to mine,this is insignificant.
I trust him too much...anyway WILL NOT get back to him anymore and might change to another property agent to look after my properties next year.

Anyway, we are doing for investment, provided there is rental, we are ok with that. To move forward,I treated this as lesson learned and paid for the tuition fee.

As for buyer agent, it depends on who do you get. I had bad experience one before, my buyer agent is not from the area where we bought the property. He/she rely 100% on seller agent or parrot what the seller agent said. There is no value added to me.

Sincere thanks for your (also Toni)time and effort in helping me in this matter.

with appreciation,
MingLing
 
Worse things could have happened to you Mingling. Frankston still seems to have a stigma about it but it appears to be slowly rubbing off. I still believe that both Frankston and Seaford are sleeping giants and as it appears you are in it for the long haul you should be rewarded. Over the past few years things have gradually increased along the bay with Chelsea (beachside) now being out of reach for the vaerage 1st home buyer. Even Seaford which 12 months ago had 2 BR units available for <$200k now has the very few available for $210K. I believe that areas such as Seaford and Frankston will outperform in regards to capital growth areas such as Aspendale, Edithvale, Chelsea/Heights etc until their medium prices have gained more ground on the areas mentioned.
I remember back 20 years ago when I was renting in Chelsea that the area had little to no reputation and those that bought in the area were laughed at. As the prices rose so did the cost of living here. As such the....well I guess you could say "riff raff" were forced to move out of the area. the same will happen over time with frankston. Without the stigma that comes with mentioning Frankston the suburb actually has probably (willing to be corrected) the largest shopping district outside of the CBD and 3rd in size in Victoria (behind the CBD & Geelong). Take that into account with it's beachside proximaty, its pier, boat access and beachside parkland/parking, Frankston is very attractive to the eye.

I'm in Chelsea heights (10 minutes away) so between toni and myslef we should be able to assist with anything in the future.

BTW where in Singapore are you located. I've been there a few times as we have some family & friends living over there.

Regards
Steve
 
Hi Steve,

thanks for your sharing. I called Real estate XX last week to check back with the agent (who sold the property 1 to me last year), according to him, I am in the state of break even now. (meaning minus the stamp duty, agent fee). My call is just to check the Frankston market whether is it still heading North.

My intention is for long term investment, provided there is rental, I am ok. any capital appreciation/growth is a bonus to me.

I am from Tampines, near Changi Airport.

May be we can meet up the next trip when you come to Singapore.

cheers,
Ming ling
 
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