Recalcitrant tenant

[geoffw]

The old story of a tenant who won't pay.

But this one has been taken to the tribunal for the third time, despite not haven kept to previous agreements. And he has been givem yet another chance to pay.

He was six weeks behind last month. He is 8 weeks behind now.

I had thought that three visits to the tribunal meant that he would automatically be evicted. But it seems that he has the sympathy of one member of the tribunal.

He does have Krohn's disease, which is starting to make it difficult for him to walk. That will get worse. So I don't want to be an evil landlord.

But I do find it makes it more difficult to give sympathy when he always has money for tobacco.

 

[scott]

Non discrimination works both ways.While we should never not rent to an ill person we should not shy from making an ethical and legal business decision.
If anyone doesnt pay the rent than steps are to be taken to collect or evict.

Best of luck Geoff
Scott

 

[asy]

Geoffw,

Why don't you try to have him use Centrepay.

I assume here, that if he is so ill, he isn't working. Have your PM approach him to see if he will do it voluntarilly, or if he doesn't, keep a close watch and as soon as he gets even a day more in arrears, take him back to the tribunal, and if they don't throw him out then, seek for them to order him to use centrepay. (Make sure that the tribunal knows that you have made him the offer of using it before, and he said no... it shows that he's not serious)

Make sure they understand that you are happy for him to stay, so long as he... PAYS!

At least this way you will be assured of an income, before he gets to buy the tobacco.

asy

 

[geoffw]

Asy,

Is Centrepay something which takes payments out of his pension from Centrelink?

If that's it, it's certainly worth a check- tough I'd be really surprised if the PM hasn't followed this route already. She's already followed a few paths- including some weeks rent from Department of Housing (which was a one-off only)- that seemed just to give him the idea he could get off without having to keep up rent.

Thanks for your input.

Is anyone familiar with NSW procedures? Do I have any grounds against the tribunal if he is evicted after falling 3 months behind in rent, when there was the chance earlier?

(I had offered to the PM 1 weeks exemption if paid up before Christmas- but there's no way he'll make that now).

 

[Jacque]

Geoff,

I had a similar situation where it went to Tribunal twice, before eviction happened. I ended up writing a letter the second time, which the PM said swung the case my way. It was a factual letter, explaining the problem I faced (not having enough money to pay back the loan when I was left high and dry etc) and I think that it was appreciated that I went to the effort to show some interest.
Could work in your case, but I think that the Centerpay idea is an excellent one too. Maybe mention it in the letter.....

 

[geoffw]

Fourth visit to the tribunal now, and he has a "use by" date. He's now $1200 behind on a rent of $105 pw- I won't see any of that, I'm sure.

But I do get the chance to do the unit up now, and furnish it. Years of cigarette smoke mean the most thorough repaint I've had to do so far on any of the units, but the repaint & refloor, and furnishing, will add $55 pw. So I will catch up on arrears one way or another.

 

[sbe]

Hi Geoff.

My one (and hopefully only) experience.....

Got to the point tenant refused to pay - and it was malicious, as they knew all to well their rights, and bragged about it - "you're not getting a cent until we go to tribunal".

It went to tribunal, and I made a point of going. Was looking like a slap on the wrist and pay back slowly option.

Then I had my say......

Described how tenant always had money for other things, including giving away (yes!!!). How I had offered them forget debt, leave and we'll call it even etc, and how I had no faith they could do follow through.

The outcome.....

* Payments to be made fortnightly, including make up payment of $50 per week.
* Tenant told - miss one payment, you are out!
* Listed for tribunal every two weeks for the next 2 months. To be cancelled each fortnight as it arrives if tenant pays. (ie, you don't pay, there will be NO delay, you are evicted immediately)
* Told that after this, any default in next 12 months, one call for tribunal session and they WILL be evicted post haste!.

Got all the money back, and they caught up as well.
Tenant has since moved on (house a mess, no notice, but got the house back!)

If they let him off again, request VERY tight controls on this. Centrepay (which I assume is like garnishee order / payroll deduction etc), and instant eviction on failure to pay.

This has a direct effect on YOUR finances. Make them aware of this. Tell them you feel empathy for him, etc, but you cannot and should not be required to subsidise his lifestyle.


Best of luck.

Simon.

 

[Mooks]

N.S.W Legislation

Hi,

I have some experience with the N.S.W legislation I was a Property Manager there myself for many years before coming to Brisbane and working for asy! I have taken over 50 tenants to tribunal and every time I have received what I wanted - maybe this is just luck!

Your best bet is to ensure all notices and paperwork are always in order sometimes PM's due to being extremely busy or just being slack the notices and necessary paperwork can be overlooked or incorrect or more importantly the dates may be incorrect. Tribunals always check dates they always check paperwork in fact in about 90% of cases the reason you lose at tribunal is because your paperwork is inaccurate and incorrect.

The best way to get rid of an ill paying tenant is to apply for tribunal (it cost $27.50 but its your investment after all) after your standard notice of termination expires of course write on your tribunal order application (remembering dates you don’t want to re-issue) - state you want the tenant to be evicted failing an eviction you would like a money order (And yes actually put that).

When you get to tribunal if the tenants are there then do the mediation and if you can get your money order all the better but ask the tenant to sign in the mediation form that if the fail to pay on the money order (payment scheme) then they have to vacate the premises hence your three- four cases are handled in one.

Obviously some tenants wont pay so on the first instance of this occurrence make sure that the next day after payment was due you apply to tribunal, get the eviction, go straight to the sheriff organize the time to co-incide with your locksmith and evict them. HOWEVER ORGANISE TO GET A GARNISHEE ON WAGES (also put this on your second application) this is ordered by the tribunal but is done/applied at the local court house or sheriffs office from memory

Two tribunals much easier then 4-6

As soon as there out and the locks are changed claim the bond call the second hand furniture dealer (the sheriff usually gives them half hour to get there things out after that its yours) organize the furniture dealer to buy the furniture if he would like or hold a garage sale this gets rid of the junk and also earns you the money your entitled to.

Centre-pay is something that about 10% of agents do it cost landlords too much and does not work! I would never recomend using this as an option.

Any way good luck I have heard your tenant may be out but maybe keep this quick summary in mind for next time! If there is anything else I can help you with let me know!

Mooks

 

[geoffw]

Thanks for the contributions everyone.

OK, I thought it was all reserved. I've booked leave from my job for a week to do the reno (well, he is a long term smoker, and there is another unit coming online a week later).

But I've just received an email from the PM- he's on leave down the coast somewhere, and nobody knows when he'll be back.

The PM advises I can change locks and wait a week, or pay for the sheriff to take possession and remove his belongings.

What is this man up to?

In the meantime, I think I may be committed to the leave without being able to do a thing.

PM also suggests that any previous tenant who has genuinely been in trouble, has at least made an effort to try to pay something towards rent on the due days. This person has not made any effort at all. He paid the court appointed amount once (a fortnighlty amount), and has not made any payments at all- falling even further behind.

 

[stirling]

In SA, Centrepay is low cost ($1 per transaction). If rent is $105 per week this is only $1 to collect $105.

Three things with Centrepay is that 1. collection costs can not be passed onto tenant. 2. Total payments with other bills can not exceed a certain amount. I think 60% 3. The tenant always has the option to cancel payments. (I don't know if tribunal can override this)

The big advantage of Centrepay is that the payment will arrive on a certain day, unless the tenant cancels (or gets a job). No more of the "I just missed the bank by 5 minutes" or "I had to take my sick dog to the vet that day"

This means you only have to check your bank account once to see if the money went in.

It is always best to fill out the forms, get the tenant to sign, give them a copy then post the form yourself. This guarantees it gets into the post.

 

[geoffw]

Tenant is back from holidays.

He has offered to pay back back rent at twice the current rent.

The tribunal has previously ordered him to pay back rent at 50% more than current rent four times previously, and he has not been able to meet thos epayment schedules. I can't believe him any more. And he is getting close to three months behind.

But his personal circumstances are bad. He's an invalid pensioner, with Krohn's disease. He will have real trouble getting anywhere else to live- my unit is about bottom of the range.

PM has spent far too much time in the past exploring options.

I don't want to be an evil landlord and kick out a helpless tenant. But I don't see any options.

MrsW doesn't agree with me, but I think it's time for a tenant movement.

 

[asy]

Originally posted by geoffw
But his personal circumstances are bad. He's an invalid pensioner, with Krohn's disease. He will have real trouble getting anywhere else to live- my unit is about bottom of the range.

Geoff...

He knows his personal circumstances, and this should mean he's more keen to ensure his tenancy is secure.

I don't mean to sound awful, and I feel for him, but you are not running a charity.

I have a number of unwell tenants, and I find that they are good tenants.

I recently let a house to a man with Parkinsons, and he is probably one of my most dilligent tenants (Lovely guy too!). He is on a pension, and I made sure that he understood the requirements prior to moving in. I also made sure that his tenancy had a guarantor. He understood that I did this to protect the landlord, and didn't have a problem.

Geoff, if he's not paying he's not staying.

asy

 

[Gill Bates]

Almost certainly getting rent assistance of
(your WeeklyRent - $41 ) x 0.75

The way i handle this situation is explain their rent is used by me to pay bank loan. If I do not pay bank loan , I must sell property, or bank will sell it for me - and they will not muck around.

I also find out the excact day they get paid , and make that day ( or the next day ) the day the rent is due to be paid. I check if it is not paid I personally visit them to find out the excuse and suggest that we both go to bank/ATM right now to get the rent.
I've had tennents tell me they have no money for rent , but they have money for somking and drinking.

I also say to the tennent , the only thing that could be more important than rent is food ( maybe medication for this guy ) - ie i get thru to them that paying the rent is important and it should be to them.

As a private landlord u can not access tennency databases , but i suggest u ask potential new tennents to produce a copy of their rental history for their present tennency. Thsi will show if their rent has been paid regulary . The history is produced by lessor or agent , the potential tenent must ask present lessor / agent for this docyment , u are not legaly able to do so. The rental history is specified in QLD tennency law, do not know if other states have a similar item.

 

[geoffw]

He was due to have vacated by 5PM today.

PM went over- and found that he had booked himself into hospital- probably partially as a place to stay, partially to avoid getting shifted out, and partially to gain sympathy.

No further rent has been paid, and no more contact has been made with the agent.

As of 5PM, the PM was able to apply for a warrant. This will take 3-4 working days, when the warrant is being served, (about $110), locks changed ($110), furniture moved and stored (cost unknown). I may be able to store it in a storeroom on the premises, but I'm not sure.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

Geoff,

You can probably store his stuff in your garage. I think he can be made to pay past debts before you hand it over. You should check into this.

If he doesn't claim his goods, you can get and abandonment order, but there are procedures which you must follow before doing this (reasonable attempts to notify, time period, etc).

 

[Kristine..]

A very successful property manager I once met told me that the 'hold for 28 days, notify to last known address, advertise in a newspaper circulating in the area etc etc ' stuff was easily circumvented:

'Oh! The back door was open when we got there and the place was empty!' worked for him.

But get your property manager's advice before you do anything. Whatever you do, don't sell anything or otherwise dispose of it without a complete inventory (unless, of course, the door was open when you got there!).

 

[geoffw]

I think I need to put this tenant in touch with this property manager - they were made for each other.

 

[simonjulie]

With you all the way on this Kristine!
Good luck Geoffw. If your situation were mine, I would pay the tenant to leave. Cut my losses and move on. Lifes to short to wait around for others to fiddle fuddle around with my assets.
Kind regards
Simon

 

[geoffw]

Thanks Simon, Kristine, and other contributors

It's too late to pay him to leave. The tribunal has already ordered him to vacate. It's maybe an option I should have considered several months ago (with the benefits of hindsight mutter mutter). But he is being forced to go, no matter what.

One of the cheapest apartments in the greater Canberra area, and he still can't keep up the rent.

He had sympathy with the tribunal- there were at least two more visits than were necessary- leading to another 6 weeks lost rent. But that sympathy is gone, and I can finally go on to value add- or, at least, to get a tenant who pays on time.

I don't wish to dispose of any of his assets, or to directly profit from them. There's probably precious little to be gained in that way- except for an upset ex tenant who may make trouble.

If I repaint, polish floors, and furnish, I will be able to get an extra $55pw. That should catch up on backlogs (he owes around $1200) in about six months time.

 

[Kevin Hockey]

Good on you Geoff, just like you to look at the positive and work out the best way to move forward. Still though, it remains unacceptable for this to be allowed to happen. Sick tenant or not, your bank manager still requires your mortgage to be paid and it is disappointing the courts cannot protect you, the person who takes all the risks to provide accomodation to people such as him.

Kev

www.nundahrealestate.com.au